Making Melo a lifer and waving at Felton in Rikers: Knicks offseason thread

[Victim of Racism]

Love will not be the scoring threat he was in Minny because Lj and Irving will dominate the ball, like they always do. Love will be a boarding Bosh without the defense, and that's if Lj's need for penetration and stat-padding (see video below) doesn't hinder his boarding the way it killed Bosh's boarding. They will not have the defense Miami had. Their defense remain atrocious if they don't fix that in the offseason. And no, Lj's putrid defense will not help. They are no Miami Heat Part 2; not even close.

Rockets, Heat, Clippers, Blazers, and Mavericks, all had great offense. Great offense with bad defense gets you eliminated. Great and limitless offense won't overcome major defensive deficiencies. Good defensive teams will slow great offenses enough to beat them. Look at the Pacers' first half of the season; putrid offensively but still top in the East; even the Bulls did okay.

Love is also injury prone. Depending on him is as bad as depending on Amar'e or Rose (who isn't poised to remain healthy through the 3 years left on his contract).

NY fans shouldn't be worried about great offense with no D (Cavs) and annual “if Rose is healthy” disclaimers; especially when Noah deserves the same disclaimer, they both will be coming off of injury, and Noah says he has a “ways to go” in his rehab process.

The only thing that concerns me is that it will not be a fair fight. Refs will be on Cavs and Bulls' side and I don't know who NY can sub for the foul trouble their top shooters and defenders will be in.

 

[Youhadasparkwhenustarted]

I was in DR so I've been M.I.A

But you're right those were opinions, but so was yours...Did you see how hurt KD was over one news paper article, it takes a special type of person to handle NY media as a face of a franchise, it's one of the reasons I love Eli, the criticism they throw at him doesn't faze him. Not everybody is built for it.

Boston is the only team in history of the NBA who you can say tanked and won a ship, and they got lucky they were able to flip it into getting KG.

You win in this league with a Star and putting talent around them and a system that fits that player, the last 4 NBA champs are examples of that

Stockpiling assets has never helped any team win a ship and thats FACT

You think waaay to highly of your own opinion homie, and lol at "kids" im probably older then you

Stockpiling young talents and having a bunch of assets gives you flexibility in cap space to sign bigger free agents, and the ability to make trades for bigger named players, I mean we see examples of both all of the time( Someone already pointed out that it's how we got Melo in the first place). Even if you don't find a star in the draft, it's still an important place to find depth, and finding a solid rotation player or starter on a cheap rookie contract who can outperform his contract is still a win. Also, there have been stars found in the draft who have stuck with their team to help them win a championship(s) Tim Duncan, Dwayne Wade, Dirk, Kobe, etc all in the last 20 years, all high picks too outside of Kobe, so yeah, your chances of finding a great player increases with how high of a pick you got( I have to imagine these scouts know what they're doing), so there is goes at least one good reason to tank. Honestly, I'm not saying the Knicks should tank now, but if the Knicks had at some point tried a proper rebuild the last 15 years, rather than finding a player to supplement our averageness, we might not have had to endure watching painful mediocrity all that time; and yeah, a proper rebuild usually involves tanking. Finding a star who can take you to a championship, through free agency is pretty rare, it really is best used as a way to supplement the team you're trying to build.

edit: I do appreciate the optimism in this thread, I just find the general anti-tank sentiment to be weird.

 

[The War Report]

I can't believe y'all are mad at IV for telling you what any objective observer of basketball would tell you. It's not some massive conspiracy that The Knicks aren't fondly looked upon by basketball people around league and the media.

 

[JerseyFinest!]

Maybe, but you're a moron... so who cares?

Knicks have talent, they didn't have the system, You don't have to be in the lottery to draft talent..that's a proven Fact

Miami didn't tank homie, they made the playoffs and give up picks they already owned to get Bosh in a S&T

You don't have to tank to get assets

Too many bootleg GMs running around like they experts, you don't have anymore knowledge then me or anyone else dog

 

[ikbm]

Love will not be the scoring threat he was in Minny because Lj and Irving will dominate the ball, like they always do. Love will be a boarding Bosh without the defense, and that's if Lj's need for penetration and stat-padding (see video below) doesn't hinder his boarding the way it killed Bosh's boarding. They will not have the defense Miami had. Their defense remain atrocious if they don't fix that in the offseason. And no, Lj's putrid defense will not help. They are no Miami Heat Part 2; not even close.

Rockets, Heat, Clippers, Blazers, and Mavericks, all had great offense. Great offense with bad defense gets you eliminated. Great and limitless offense won't overcome major defensive deficiencies. Good defensive teams will slow great offenses enough to beat them. Look at the Pacers' first half of the season; putrid offensively but still top in the East; even the Bulls did okay.

Love is also injury prone. Depending on him is as bad as depending on Amar'e or Rose (who isn't poised to remain healthy through the 3 years left on his contract).

NY fans shouldn't be worried about great offense with no D (Cavs) and annual “if Rose is healthy” disclaimers; especially when Noah deserves the same disclaimer, they both will be coming off of injury, and Noah says he has a “ways to go” in his rehab process.

man shut the fukk up
love was never ball dominant...he will get atleast 18 a night just off spot ups off lebron's passing. he's a better 3 point shooter than bosh is.
comparing loves injuries to rose's or amares is downright idiotic cause they arent to the seriousness as knee injuries are
and all those teams you named all lack a player of lebrons caliber period...so just saying "good offensive teams with bad defense get eliminated" is fukking stupid because all those are western conference teams and they have to go through each other...and its a foregone conclusion the cavs are favorites to make it ot the eastern conference finals
then again you think carmelo is better than lebron

 

[DPresidential]

Why you bring this negativity into the thread. Save that ether for the trolls & clowns who come in here popping sh*t. The reason the Knickstape is so strong on this board is because of the big number of us & the vast knowledge of basketball that we ALL posses.

:rufio:

This dude brehs...

Let's try to take our "snooty" goggles off for a moment & think about what Napier is saying.

The collective knowledge. That concept that feeds into the Marketplace of ideas, where people debate & feed off of each other in an attempt to gain sometype of middle ground. He's not saying we all are Red Holzman level Basketball I.Q. He is saying, we debate, give opinion & try to state fact, whether by source or memory...not in an attempt to convince, but just to get to a place of respectful agreement or disagreement, depending on the topic.

This thread & probably the Chicago Bulls Threads are the two places where, for the most part, people interact with each other maturely and although we disagree alot, it plays like a gentleman's game of conversation. With witty retorts but not overt patronizing...unless you're sasuageman.

You have definitely been on your high horse while posting in this thread, and others. Not even being witty, just dry, calling people children, morons & insisting that you know more than most every one. And breh... even if you did know more, how lame is it that you try to imply that when talking down to other posters?

Outside of trolls, I think most of us stay true to our personalities, especially on a sports forum, so I can only imagine how insufferable you can become when speaking to a "layman" about sports considering you've been in this industry for so long while in person.

I have a question for you though. Something that I touched on before. Where I grew up & still live, the barbershops I go to are loud, fun & filled w/ a bunch of hilarious know-it-alls who absolutely believe what they are saying is gospel. It is extremely entertaining. Never, even in that setting, have I seen somebody just come out on some, "Well...I know what I'm talking about and you...blah blah...." It would be dumb corny...

What kind of barbershop do you go to? What are the average demographics? What kind of neighborhood? I think this might get to the bottom of your incessant amount of "I'm better than all of you" posts.

Care to share?

:downwhiteguy:

 

[JerseyFinest!]

Stockpiling young talents and having a bunch of assets gives you flexibility in cap space to sign bigger free agents, and the ability to make trades for bigger named players, I mean we see examples of both all of the time( Someone already pointed out that it's how we got Melo in the first place). Even if you don't find a star in the draft, it's still an important place to find depth, and finding a solid rotation player or starter on a cheap rookie contract who can outperform his contract is still a win. Also, there have been stars found in the draft who have stuck with their team to help them win a championship(s) Tim Duncan, Dwayne Wade, Dirk, Kobe, etc all in the last 20 years, all high picks too outside of Kobe, so yeah, your chances of finding a great player increases with how high of a pick you got( I have to imagine these scouts know what they're doing), so there is goes at least one good reason to tank. Honestly, I'm not saying the Knicks should tank now, but if the Knicks had at some point tried a proper rebuild the last 15 years, rather than finding a player to supplement our averageness, we might not have had to endure watching painful mediocrity all that time; and yeah, a proper rebuild usually involves tanking. Finding a star who can take you to a championship, through free agency is pretty rare, it really is best used as a way to supplement the team you're trying to build.

edit: I do appreciate the optimism in this thread, I just find the general anti-tank sentiment to be weird.

I Agree, thats not the debate tho

The debate is about tanking for this upcoming season.

The reason teams mainly tank is hope they can draft a star through the draft, the Knicks already have one on the roster in Melo

The Knicks have assets in Stat,Barge contract
As well as young players they can either develop or trade....it's no reason to tank for this upcoming season.

All the teams you've seen be successful in any sport has a winning culture, Lakers have always been able to get FAs because players know the winning culture they have

Thats what Phil is trying to build, Bootleg GMs on here think its NBA2K

 

[Mr. Jack Napier]

Yeah, this dude is an ass, I'm just scroll past his posts for now on.

 

[DPresidential]

I can't believe y'all are mad at IV for telling you what any objective observer of basketball would tell you. It's not some massive conspiracy that The Knicks aren't fondly looked upon by basketball people around league and the media.

What kind of objective observer constantly insists the person they are talking w/ is a moron, child & the like?

 

[I.V.]

You don't have to be in the lottery to draft talent..that's a proven Fact

Sure. Tony Paker and Manu were late picks, for example. But being in the lottery, gives you a better shot at drafting MORE TALENT than having a middle/late round pick.

I'm not sure why this is so hard for people to understand. It is a mathematical fact. And I didn't say Miami tanked, I said they flipped picks and space for Bosh. Those are assets.

Which is why we're having a problem... your understanding of the game is simple. I appreciate your loyalty, but you're bending facts to fit the situation the knicks are in. "You can get talent outside the lottery!" Well yes, and you can sign a player from overseas that nobody has heard of and he can become a good player... but I'd rather use the methods that are proven over and over at a higher clip, yadig?

 

[The War Report]

The Knicks have assets in Stat,Barge contract

:dead2:

 

[Mr. Jack Napier]

:dead2:

:melowhy: So expiring contracts wont be assets come trade deadline time???

 

[DPresidential]

Sure. Tony Paker and Manu were late picks, for example. But being in the lottery, gives you a better shot at drafting MORE TALENT than having a middle/late round pick.

I'm not sure why this is so hard for people to understand. It is a mathematical fact. And I didn't say Miami tanked, I said they flipped picks and space for Bosh. Those are assets.

Which is why we're having a problem... your understanding of the game is simple. I appreciate your loyalty, but you're bending facts to fit the situation the knicks are in. "You can get talent outside the lottery!" Well yes, and you can sign a player from overseas that nobody has heard of and he can become a good player... but I'd rather use the methods that are proven over and over at a higher clip, yadig?

Breh...

Change your avi to this b...

 

[JerseyFinest!]

Sure. Tony Paker and Manu were late picks, for example. But being in the lottery, gives you a better shot at drafting MORE TALENT than having a middle/late round pick.

I'm not sure why this is so hard for people to understand. It is a mathematical fact. And I didn't say Miami tanked, I said they flipped picks and space for Bosh. Those are assets.

Which is why we're having a problem... your understanding of the game is simple. I appreciate your loyalty, but you're bending facts to fit the situation the knicks are in. "You can get talent outside the lottery!" Well yes, and you can sign a player from overseas that nobody has heard of and he can become a good player... but I'd rather use the methods that are proven over and over at a higher clip, yadig?

You're not comprehending the fact that you don't have to go the EXTREME route of tanking to draft talent

Of course a player pick in the lottery is projected to be better, but we've seen a bunch of times it doesn't work out that way. Its not a anomaly, just look at the last 4 draft classes

Lol @ appreciate my loyalty, you work for the Knicks now

 

[DPresidential]

You're not comprehending the fact that you don't have to go the EXTREME route of tanking to draft talent

Of course a player pick in the lottery is projected to be better, but we've seen a bunch of times it doesn't work out that way. Its not a anomaly, just look at the last 4 draft classes

Lol @ appreciate my loyalty, you work for the Knicks now

Real shyt...he just might.