List of Ugandan homosexual offenses and their punishments. Edit- Updated with example of aggravated homosexuality. Pure Haram :dame:

[Godless Socialist CEO]

You can't have your cake and eat it too. Uganda has a relatively positive relationship with the US even acting as allies during the war on terror, in the region they are 8th most in the amount of foreign aid, and we practically subsidize their trade deals by building export infrastructure through AGOA. Uganda accepts these deals, knowing that we expect a certain human rights record from the vast majority of countries we do business with, save for a handful of exceptions like Israel and Saudi Arabia and even then there is legislation brought forward by progressives to sanction these countries. I'd consider myself a Pan-Africanist, that doesn't mean supporting oppressive African governments in the name of 'self-determination', gay/lesbian Africans are still African and deserve the basic human right of not being jailed for identifying as such. Remember, they aren't owed a relationship with the US, if they are truly a self-determined sovereign nation they can pass that bill, tell the US to fukk off and seek aid/trade from China or Russia, my tax dollars and I want no part of it. Though I imagine they'd have a lot less leverage over China/Russia without using the competition of the US as a bargaining chip.



The bill is not passed, the threat of sanctions is to dissuade Museveni from signing, if Ugandans have a high opinion of the country imposing sanctions (they do) then their criticism will be aimed at their government for passing a totally unnecessary bill. Jailing people for being homosexual is a human rights abuse, and the US has every right to remove Uganda from the AGOA and impose sanctions same as any other country. If the Ugandan government doesn't want to harm their people and cripple their economy, they shouldn't pass a bill they know full well will cause international scrutiny. Stop coddling them, we laid out our terms decades ago they know their partners are socially liberal.

Sanctions never hurt people in power. For someone who claims to be pro black you seem to very fine with pushing Ugandans into poverty over the actions of their government

 

[TQbrit]

There are better ways to handle this. If there's a US embassy in Uganda you offer asylum to any LGBTQ Ugandans who fear for their life. Needlessly starving Ugandans for the Draconian actions of their government officials has never made sense to me.


I mean shyt, look at the awful stuff our Sanctions have done in places like Cuba, Afghanistan and Yemen

The homophobes will play gay just to leave the country

 

[Godless Socialist CEO]

Educated enough to know yous a fakkit fakkit

The Mods really should do a better job of stopping middle schoolers posting here.

 

[BobbyWojak]

But Uganda has its own government, just because there is a relationship doesn't mean there has to be complete agreement, forget what you think about what they should do because of trade deals.
It doesn't matter what your tax dollars do when you are not in control of their government or this one. You are not a Ugandan national in political power to do anything about Uganda's decision on this, and your Pan-Africanism is not changing that. We all pay taxes, but that exchange is a one and done every tax season, every transaction. It's factored in cost, it's mandated by law on a federal level and a majority of state levels. When you consume you render unto Caesar. You aren't going to stop paying or filing taxes or refuse to buy anything with sales tax because Uganda is doing this.

Drop it, what you are going to do thousands of miles away from Uganda is be outraged because the United States' federal foreign relations with Uganda is funded by the money levied from everybody's taxes. You alone are outnumbered. Black people and Africans in the United States are outnumbered, so before any talk about Pan-Africanism and what a sovereign African nation - on African soil - can do, Africans and black people need to figure out what they are going to do here, outside of Africa.

It's more important things for us to address here than worrying about the moral decisions of African nations. Save that for if we get there, brother. It's plenty of gay black people here that need to feel like they have a place within our black community to contribute to fixing what the United States government did to the black community, which affects Africans and West Indians. Your Pan-Africanism is putting the cart before the horse.

Unless you're going to renounce your citizenship and go to Uganda and do something about this...?

I don't think I ever said there has to be complete agreement, what I said was they agreed to not commit human rights abuses, a standard that the international community recognizes, in order to receive aid and be a part of AGOA, you break those rules you should expect the consequences. 'When you consume you render unto Caesar' Not true, we are far from a true democracy but what we can do is vote for representatives that reflect our ideals, and with that comes how tax money should be allocated. You and the Ugandan government can't moralize over sovereignty and African soil while, at the same time, receive aid and development from another nation you made a deal with. Using your logic, the US shouldn't engage with Africa at all, but we both know Uganda doesn't want that. 'It's more important things for us to address here than worrying about the moral decisions of African nations.' The same can be said for Uganda and this bill. I consider it a bit more than a moral difference to jail teenage girls for saying they like girls, that's not acceptable, and I will use the small power I do have as a voter to counter oppressive governments that want to abuse their populace while pocketing my tax money.

Sanctions never hurt people in power. For someone who claims to be pro black you seem to very fine with pushing Ugandans into poverty over the actions of their government

Those same Ugandans are being persecuted for their sexuality, for a supposed American liberal you seem very fine with the human rights abuses of our trade partners. Again, stop coddling them, if the Ugandan government is fukking up aid over bills that Ugandans barely support, then that's between them and their government. We set the terms years ago, Museveni knows this, this bill is extreme by all standards.

 

[Godless Socialist CEO]

I don't think I ever said there has to be complete agreement, what I said was they agreed to not commit human rights abuses, a standard that the international community recognizes, in order to receive aid and be a part of AGOA, you break those rules you should expect the consequences. 'When you consume you render unto Caesar' Not true, we are far from a true democracy but what we can do is vote for representatives that reflect our ideals, and that comes with how tax money should be allocated. You and the Ugandan government can't moralize over sovereignty and African soil while, at the same time, receive aid and development from another nation you made a deal with. Using your logic, the US shouldn't engage with Africa at all, but we both know Uganda doesn't want that. 'It's more important things for us to address here than worrying about the moral decisions of African nations.' The same can be said for Uganda and this bill. I consider it a bit more than a moral difference to jail teenage girls for saying they like girls, that's not acceptable, and I will use the small power I do have as a voter to counter oppressive governments that want to abuse their populace with pocketing my tax money.


Those same Ugandans are being persecuted for their sexuality, for a supposed American liberal you seem very fine with the human rights abuses of our trade partners. Again, stop coddling them, if the Ugandan government is fukking up aid over bills that Ugandans barely support, then that's between them and their government. We set the terms years ago, Museveni knows this, this bill is extreme by all standards.

Coddling who? Who's being coddled? So we should ruin the lives of the Ugandan people because of the decisions of their government? How would you feel if someone fukked our economy up via sanctions and you and your family end up starving because of all the vile and Draconian bills the GOP has put through against LGBTQ people? You'd be fukking irate. Not to mention, sanctions would also hurt the very same people we claim to be trying to protect.

Make it make sense.

I've already said the correct action is to give LGBTQ Ugandan's a path for asylum through the US embassy to escape persecution. That's the best and most ethical way to handle this.

You seemingly have zero understanding of sanctions and what they do. We have so many fukking anti LGBTQ laws the ACLU has a whole ass part of their website dedicated to tracking it

Mapping Attacks on LGBTQ Rights in U.S. State Legislatures in 2024

In the last few years states have advanced a record number of bills that attack LGBTQ rights, especially transgender youth. The ACLU is tracking these attacks and working with our national network of affiliates to support LGBTQ people everywhere.

www.aclu.org

And your ass is in here talking about sanctions, we need to be sanctioning our damn selves.

 

[DeuceZ]

Alot of "conservative" "Christian" right wing groups go to Africa to push their extreme ideals. I bet you the general Ugandan public got bigger issues they want addressed... like when Museveni is going to go

 

[DeuceZ]

Love threads like this that solidify by statements about TLR being a hate forum

Lactose intolerant milquetoast fakkit

 

[Amo Husserl]

I don't think I ever said there has to be complete agreement, what I said was they agreed to not commit human rights abuses, a standard that the international community recognizes, in order to receive aid and be a part of AGOA, you break those rules you should expect the consequences. 'When you consume you render unto Caesar' Not true, we are far from a true democracy but what we can do is vote for representatives that reflect our ideals, and that comes with how tax money should be allocated. You and the Ugandan government can't moralize over sovereignty and African soil while, at the same time, receive aid and development from another nation you made a deal with. Using your logic, the US shouldn't engage with Africa at all, but we both know Uganda doesn't want that. 'It's more important things for us to address here than worrying about the moral decisions of African nations.' The same can be said for Uganda and this bill. I consider it a bit more than a moral difference to jail teenage girls for saying they like girls, that's not acceptable, and I will use the small power I do have as a voter to counter oppressive governments that want to abuse their populace with pocketing my tax money.

Color-coded one through four to be clear:
1. This is an example of not having complete agreement. If there are consequences, let Uganda be accountable.
2. Very true, taxes. Your voting means nothing if money isn't behind it in lobbying or organized donations, voting alone is never enough.
Not only democracy but capitalism - the Fourteenth Amendment, corporations are legally people. Sales tax on products for consumption.
Buy an IPhone and profit, where tax is included, is Apple's who can use it to leverage political demands through lobbying or funding political groups on their behalf.
3. Using my logic, you gotta realize Uganda made a free decision to run their country however they wanted regardless of funding.
You are not using my logic correctly. Using my logic, the US can do whatever they think will stop this, whether it will is up to Uganda.
Simplifying my logic to an either or about the moral decision of free agents in power is why you're not understanding this.
4. I consider it Uganda's right to make a decision regardless of foreign influence. What you think morally wrong is justified by them.
What's happening on in your own city is more important to you than the decisions of Uganda.

We can't fight white supremacy without fighting each other, smoke for Uganda not a good look. You east coast or west coast?

 

[BobbyWojak]

Coddling who? Who's being coddled? So we should ruin the lives of the Ugandan people because of the decisions of their government? How would you feel if someone fukked our economy up via sanctions and you and your family end up starving because of all the vile and Draconian bills the GOP has put through against LGBTQ people? You'd be fukking irate. Not to mention, sanctions would also hurt the very same people we claim to be trying to protect.

Make it make sense.

I've already said the correct action is to give LGBTQ Ugandan's a path for asylum through the US embassy to escape persecution. That's the best and most ethical way to handle this.

You seemingly have zero understanding of sanctions and what they do. We have so many fukking anti LGBTQ laws the ACLU has a whole ass part of their website dedicated to tracking it

Mapping Attacks on LGBTQ Rights in U.S. State Legislatures in 2024

In the last few years states have advanced a record number of bills that attack LGBTQ rights, especially transgender youth. The ACLU is tracking these attacks and working with our national network of affiliates to support LGBTQ people everywhere.

www.aclu.org

And your ass is in here talking about sanctions, we need to be sanctioning our damn selves.

I've made a liberal engage in whataboutism I'm so proud

The US is not responsible for the wellbeing of the Ugandan people, the Ugandan government is, and they seem to believe this bill is worth more than aid/trade deals. We have a standard for humanitarian aid and development that stands regardless of the material conditions of the country in question, if you fold when things like this crop up then it has the potential to get much worse. Your 'ethical' alternative is laughable when the threat of sanctions can potentially stop the bill altogether, use the embassy as a last resort, don't appease governments that openly disrespect our agreements.

Polling isn't perfect, but it shows that Ugandans have a higher opinion of the US than faith in their own elections, we can't protect them from themselves, Ugandans need to show courage and independence in the face of their government.

https://allafrica.com/stories/202101130288.html

According to the 2012 U.S. Global Leadership Report, 79% of Ugandans approve of U.S. leadership, with 11% disapproving and 10% uncertain.

If someone fukked our economy with sanctions, I'd be wondering what our government did that caused someone to sanction us.

 

[BobbyWojak]

Color-coded one through four to be clear:

I need to head out, I'll be back to respond.

 

[Godless Socialist CEO]

I've made a liberal engage in whataboutism I'm so proud

The US is not responsible for the wellbeing of the Ugandan people, the Ugandan government is, and they seem to believe this bill is worth more than aid/trade deals. We have a standard for humanitarian aid and development that stands regardless of the material conditions of the country in question, if you fold when things like this crop up then it has the potential to get much worse. Your 'ethical' alternative is laughable when the threat of sanctions can potentially stop the bill altogether, use the embassy as a last resort, don't appease governments that openly disrespect our agreements.

Polling isn't perfect, but it shows that Ugandans have a higher opinion of the US than faith in their own elections, we can't protect them from themselves, Ugandans need to show courage and independence in the face of their government.

https://allafrica.com/stories/202101130288.html

According to the 2012 U.S. Global Leadership Report, 79% of Ugandans approve of U.S. leadership, with 11% disapproving and 10% uncertain.

If someone fukked our economy with sanctions, I'd be wondering what our government did that caused someone to sanction us.

I mean we can agree to disagree. You could’ve just easily said “I don’t give a fukk about the Ugandan people including the lgbtq ones” and left it at that

Also I find it hilarious you keep calling me a liberal despite my staunch non support for sanctions(something American liberals fukking love)

Y’all really don’t understand that my name is a joke nor do you even understand the policy beliefs of ur political opponents

 

[Professor Emeritus]

do you imagine children will engage in fakkit behaviour unless told to

Is that something you actually believe, or just dumb shyt you say online to look hard? Some boys and girls experiment with homosexual behaviors in literally every culture. Not all kids, or most kids, but some kids do it.

I mean come on, even animals do homosexual shyt. That doesn't make it right, but it destroys any claim that they do it just because "someone told them to."

 

[BobbyWojak]

Color-coded one through four to be clear:
1. This is an example of not having complete agreement. If there are consequences, let Uganda be accountable.
2. Very true, taxes. Your voting means nothing if money isn't behind it in lobbying or organized donations, voting alone is never enough.
Not only democracy but capitalism - the Fourteenth Amendment, corporations are legally people. Sales tax on products for consumption.
Buy an IPhone and profit, where tax is included, is Apple's who can use it to leverage political demands through lobbying or funding political groups on their behalf.
3. Using my logic, you gotta realize Uganda made a free decision to run their country however they wanted regardless of funding.
You are not using my logic correctly. Using my logic, the US can do whatever they think will stop this, whether it will is up to Uganda.
Simplifying my logic to an either or about the moral decision of free agents in power is why you're not understanding this.
4. I consider it Uganda's right to make a decision regardless of foreign influence. What you think morally wrong is justified by them.

We can't fight white supremacy without fighting each other, smoke for Uganda not a good look. You east coast or west coast?

Based on your response here, I don't see where our disagreement is other than my belief that the bill is an oppression of Uganda people. And what I think is morally wrong isn't justified by 'them' but their government, I don't think the average Ugandan wants this bill and the gay community over there obviously doesn't want it. Unless you subscribe to the completely unproven belief that people aren't born gay, Uganda can't justify this bill to any liberal democracy they want to do business with. Speaking to your second point, I already specified that our democracy isn't perfect, but an American vote isn't worthless and I'll use it nonetheless.

'What's happening in your own city is more important to you than the decisions of Uganda.' That shouldn't stop a person from being aware, especially when you live in the United States, for better or worse our decisions influence our allies and partners. This isn't smoke for Uganda, it is opposition to a fascistic bill that has the potential to jail completely innocent people. That is part and parcel with being a Pan-Africanist, I'm not loyal to any state, I'm against a bill oppressing a Black minority because their government is emulating British colonial policy. If the threat of sanctions is what it takes then so be it, and if the bill passes I'm thinking the majority of Ugandans would much prefer the aid.

I'm in the west rn, but I'm from nyc.

I mean come on, even animals do homosexual shyt. That doesn't make it right, but it destroys any claim that they do it just because "someone told them to."

I knew shyt was fukked up in the Ugandan government when the politician that introduced the bill said, 'do you see this anywhere else in the animal kingdom?' It's well documented behavior. Reminded me of when Republicans deny climate change.

 

[Maxine Shaw]

Has anybody asked actual Ugandans if they even GIVE a fukk?

 

[Professor Emeritus]

Has anybody asked actual Ugandans if they even GIVE a fukk?

I'm pretty sure homosexual Ugandans give a fukk. Is your argument that minorities should be persecuted just however so long as the majority agrees?