Lebron disses Olajuwon.. Hakeem busts back "You're not in Jordan's league"

[#1 pick]

Per36 Embid is averaging some crazy shyt, something like 31ppg 11rpg 4apg 6bpg 2spg. I think Hakeem would do just fine. No matter how the league operates at the time, great bigs will ALWAYS stand out and put up big #.

Embid, Towns, Porzingis, Boogie, have all been dominant this year. Hakeem would be fine.

Hakeem was 6'10 245 pounds. Embiid is 7'3 285. That's 5 inches and 40 pound difference. Hell, Bron weighs more than Hakeem

 

[IllmaticDelta]

KOBE CARRIED SHAQ IN THE FAR SUPERIOR WESTERN CONFERENCE PLAYOFFS AND SHAQ FEASTED ON THE EAST .. IF THERE WAS A PLAYOFFS MVP, KOBE WOULDA WON AT LEAST 2. SO THE ARGUMENT OF KOBE BEIN CARRIED BY SHAQ IS NULL N VOID..

HARDLY "CARRYING"

MISS ME WIT THE ADVANCE STATS .. ADVANCE STATS SAY STEPH CURRY LAST SEASON WAS THE GREATEST PLAYER OF ALL TIME .. THIS IS WHY REAL BALLERS NEVER USE DUMBASS SHIIT LIKE PER WHEN ASSESSING TALENT. THATS NERD SHIIT.

AS FAR AS CAREER NUMBERS, LEBRON HAD A BIG HEAD START, BEIN HANDED THE KEYS TO THE FRANCHISE RIGHT OUT THE GATE, WHILE KOBE HAD TO WORK HIS WAY UP N GRAB THE KEYS TO THE GOAT FRANCHISE.

PRIME FOR PRIME, LEBRON DOESNR HAVE A SEASON LIKE KOBE IN 06, WHERE HE HAD 4 CONSECUTIVE 50 POINT GAMES, A MONTH WHERE HE AVERAGED 40, 81 POINT GAME, 62 IN 3 QUARTERS (OUTSCORING MAVS) .. LEBRON IN KOBES SHOES WOULD STILL BE CHASING HIS FIRST RING. KOBE IN LEBRON'S SHOES WOULD BE GOIN ON HIS 7TH STRAIGHT.

Kobe Bryant Elimination Game Averages:

22.3 PPG,

5.6 RPG,

3.7 APG,

1.2 SPG,

.6 BPG,

3.0 TOPG,

41.4 FG%,

27.5 3P%,

77.9 FT%


Straight up game 7's or 5's


21.4 PPG, 7.1 RPG, 5.1 APG, .9 SPG, 1.6 BPG, 2.0 TOPG, 39.5 FG%, 32.4 3P%, 70.2 FT%

-W/out Game 5’s
22.2 PPG, 8.0 RPG, 5.0 APG, 1.0 SPG, 1.3 BPG, 2.2 TOPG, 38.9 FG%, 35.8 3P%, 67.3 FT%



NBA Finals Shooting Numbers


Kobe


2000 NBA Finals – 36.7% FG

2001 NBA Finals – 41.5% FG

2002 NBA Finals – 51.4% FG

2004 NBA Finals – 38.1% FG

2008 NBA Finals – 40.5% FG

2009 NBA Finals – 43.0% FG

2010 NBA Finals – 40.5% FG,

KObe - 41 FG% finals career

 

[Zyne]

THIS IS ALL LEBRON GROUPIES DO .. PAT THEMSELVES ON THE BACK, WITH LITTLE TO NO SUBSTANCE

nah, that's you delusional kobe stans who keep trying to insist that he's better than bron
reality is that bron's on a totally different level compared to bean

 

[OG_StankBrefs]

Lol Use Skip Bayless as a credible source and think you stuntin on em, brehs.

 

[Dayco23]

"STUPID OPTIONS"



OK BUDDY

auto correct my bad. fukk off with your stupid opinions

 

[IllmaticDelta]

nah, that's you delusional kobe stans who keep trying to insist that he's better than bron
reality is that bron's on a totally different level compared to bean

facts

 

[Sccit]

Kobe Bryant Elimination Game Averages:

22.3 PPG,

5.6 RPG,

3.7 APG,

1.2 SPG,

.6 BPG,

3.0 TOPG,

41.4 FG%,

27.5 3P%,

77.9 FT%


Straight up game 7's or 5's


21.4 PPG, 7.1 RPG, 5.1 APG, .9 SPG, 1.6 BPG, 2.0 TOPG, 39.5 FG%, 32.4 3P%, 70.2 FT%

-W/out Game 5’s
22.2 PPG, 8.0 RPG, 5.0 APG, 1.0 SPG, 1.3 BPG, 2.2 TOPG, 38.9 FG%, 35.8 3P%, 67.3 FT%



NBA Finals Shooting Numbers


Kobe


2000 NBA Finals – 36.7% FG

2001 NBA Finals – 41.5% FG

2002 NBA Finals – 51.4% FG

2004 NBA Finals – 38.1% FG

2008 NBA Finals – 40.5% FG

2009 NBA Finals – 43.0% FG

2010 NBA Finals – 40.5% FG,

KObe - 41 FG% finals career

WE CAN DO THIS ALL DAY BRODIE

 

[Mantis Toboggan M.D.]

nah, that's you delusional kobe stans who keep trying to insist that he's better than bron
reality is that bron's on a totally different level compared to bean

The term for it is called projection

 

[#1 pick]

FACTS!!!!!!!!

hakeem was losing to basically 2nd tier hall of famers out west (hakeem only went to 3 finals)....unlike Ewing and other cat's from the East who kept running into Jordan before the finals. What was Hakeem excuse for not making more finals?

I've said it, Bron is the greatest Basketball player ever. He is the one player who was born to play Basketball. More so than anyone else. Like Messi and Pele, like Peyton, like Ali and Mayweather

 

[Professor Emeritus]

LOL starting a team 90% of GMs are taking dream over bron.

90% of GM's are taking the guy who only got past the first round twice before the age of 30 over the guy who instantly transforms any franchise he's on?



They better have reeaaaally high confidence in their job security.

Hakeem would be averaging 40 20 5 5 & 8

In 1990, when Hakeem was 27-years-old and in his prime, the Lakers defended him in the first round with a 35-year-old soft ass Mychal Thompson and the flopping rookie Vlade Divac.

Hakeem averaged 19-12-2-2-6 on 44% shooting on the way to losing in 4 games.



The next year, 2nd-year Vlade just took the full load against Hakeem, playing 42 minutes a game.

Hakeem averaged 22-15-2-1-3 on 58% shooting as the Lakers swept the Rockets.


Now, how the heck is Hakeem going to be dominating today's centers with ridiculous numbers when he couldn't even dominate Mychal Thompson and young Vlade?



Maybe you think Hakeem was just a slow developer (which, at least on offense, he actually was). So lets take 1996, when Hakeem was still in his prime at 33 and facing the Sonics in the 2nd round.

Now, 6'11" career scrub Ervin Johnson started the games on Hakeem, but Hakeem's primary defender was 34-year-old 6'9" Sam Perkins.

Hakeem averaged 18-10-4-1-2 on 48% shooting as he, Clyde Drexler, Robert Horry, Mario Elie, Kenny Smith, and Sam Cassell got swept in 4 games.


Now here comes Sccit to tell us why Ervin Johnson and Sam Perkins would be dominating in today's NBA.

You want to look at 1989? 1992? 1993? 1997? 1998? Because we could keep making examples like that one

Lebron was the worst 3-point shooter in the NBA last season, yet you think he's better shooter than Hakeem smh. If Hakeem had played in this era of positionless NBA, he'd be one of the better 3-point shooters because he was a good shooter.

But why was Lebron the worst 3pt shooter in the NBA last season? Hakeem had a baseline fadeaway jumper and that shows he's a decent shooter - the same can't be said about Bron.

Wait….Kobe WAS in the league still last year, right?

I mean, it does feel like it’s already been a decade since he mattered, but as long as we’re talking about historically awful three-point shooting…

Kobe Bryant 2015-16: 133-467 on threes, 28.5%


Westbrook, Wiggins, Brewer, and Felton were all 30% or worse too, and Marcus Smart had one of the worst three-point shooting years ever. Lebron, in one of his worst shooting years, was still up at 31% with Paul Pierce and Jimmy Butler, and barely behind Kyrie at 32%.


Meanwhile, Lebron shot 37% from three in the FINALS when it mattered, better than Klay, Barnes, Iggy, JR, Shump, or anyone on the Cavs not named Kyrie.



The small children commenting on this thread don’t even remember that Hakeem couldn’t shoot at all when he came into the league. He developed a beautiful post game, but he never stopped sucking outside of 12-15 feet. For his career he was a 20% career three-point shooter, a 71% free throw shooter, and never was able to consistently make jumpers outside 15 feet. The world in which Dream is shooting threes well is an alternate reality.

Hell, Lebron made almost as many threes in his 9 elimination games in the NBA Finals (23) as Hakeem made in 1238 games in his entire career (25).

LeBron needed a perennial all-star and former Finals MVP to win his rings in a less competitive league so...

So the strategy for Lebron haters now is to pretend that 2016 just didn't happen.

And how in the hell is an expansion league in an area with 1/10th the talent pool and the top two superstars retiring early a “more competitive league”? Because all the teams sucked equally? We already talked about Hakeem missing the playoffs in his prime behind forgettable Clippers and Lakers teams, about getting beaten in the playoffs repeatedly by the Dale Ellis Sonics and the Adrian Dantley Mavs. You’re on some stuff with this one.

 

[IllmaticDelta]

reg season....Im talking playoffs/finals

WE CAN DO THIS ALL DAY BRODIE

What model-dependent realism has to say about whether Kobe is clutch

Kobe isn't Clutch:

Despite all of his clutch fame, Kobe has had his skeptics. Most non-Laker fans hold this opinion. Some of this skepticism is based purely on hate, and other is based off of facts. Recently, ESPN analysts have criticized Kobe's numbers and how they deceive people in articles like this and this. What, exactly, makes Kobe so not clutch?

While Kobe has made a ton of clutch shots over his career, he has missed significantly more. Between 2000 and 2012, Kobe shot by far the highest number of attempts (230) in the final minute of games with a margin of five points or fewer for regular season games. Of those 230 attempts, he only made 80 of them. 80/230 puts him at a mediocre 34.8%, only slightly above the atrocious league average of 33.7%. This means that for every clutch basket that Kobe makes, he has 1.87 clutch misses. If those numbers are considered worthy of being considered one of the clutchest players of all time, Amar'e Stoudemire should be up there, as well. When your clutch numbers are worse than this guy, you probably should join a depression clinic before an all-clutch NBA team.

Regular season games are great and all, but the playoffs are the games that really matter. If you think Kobe's clutch numbers are better there, boy are you wrong. In the final minute of playoff games where the margin is within five points, Kobe has gone 10/31. That's 32.3%, which means that for every one amazing make Kobe has he has 2.09 bricks. Granted this playoff number comes in a small sample size; LeBron James (apparent, notable choke artist) has actually made the same number of clutch shots in the final minute of a playoff game as Kobe between 2000 and 2012 with 11 fewer attempts. That's not even including the plethora of clutch makes LeBron had against the Pacers and Spurs. Kobe's numbers are certainly not indicative of a player who shows up in big games.

As much of an offensive threat as Kobe is, one would expect that the Lakers would have a top-notch offense in crunch time of close games. To see a complete recap of just how bad Kobe and the Lakers' crunch time numbers are, you should check out Henry Abbott's Truehoop article posted a few years ago. One of the most stunning excerpts from this article is:

You'd expect Los Angeles to also have one of the league's best offenses in crunch time, right? Especially with the ball in the hands of the player most suited to those moments.

That's not what happens, though. In the final 24 seconds of close games the Lakers offense regresses horribly, managing just 82 points per 100 possessions...

The Lakers are not among the league leaders in crunch-time offense -- instead, they're just about average, scoring 82.35 points per 100 possessions in a league that averages 80.03. They are, however, among the league leaders in how much worse their offense declines in crunch time.

When Bryant is on the floor in crunch time, Bryant's Lakers are actually outscored by their opponents.

Kobe is said to be the clutchest player of all time, yet the Lakers' offensive numbers beg to differ.

A Stephen Hawking theory & the Kobe clutch debate

 

[IllmaticDelta]

Kobe and the Clutch Playoff Performance Myth (2011)

In my 25 plus years of following the NBA, one of the more fascinating phenomena to me has been the plight of those that I refer to as “Kobe Nation”. Now, I’m not referring to Kobe “fans” - Many of those are a dime a dozen, stuffing the All-Star ballot box, displaying their #24 jerseys during road games, and riding the Kobe-train as long as the Lakers remain on top. No, I’m talking about Kobe Nation – those who have repeatedly extolled the virtues of Kobe Bryant while partaking on a daily quest to defend his basketball legacy, game performances, and polarizing personality. They are his apostles, and their fervor rivals that of even the most religious of zealots. They respond to criticism, deserved or undeserved, with an inverse defiance that embodies the personality of their hero; the more you critique them, the more combative they will become, the less they will listen, and the more likely you will be called a “hater”. For every action, there is a reaction.

Earlier in the season, ESPN’s Henry Abbott questioned Bryant’s status as the most “clutch” player in the NBA, and as you can imagine, Kobe Nation responded with a fury. Specifically, Abbott defended his stance by citing the Game Winning/Game Tying Shot metric traditionally used by coaches and GMs when scouting opposing teams – shot attempts in the final 24 seconds of a game during which a player’s team is either tied or trails by three or fewer points. And during Kobe’s 15-year career (regular season and playoffs), the results showed that he made only 36 game winning/game tying shots while missing a stellar 79, or 36/115.

So why then is Kobe Bryant considered to be the unanimous first choice among GMs, coaches, and players for taking the game winning/game tying shot for all the marbles? Abbott cites the media’s propensity to exhaust the highlight reel, limitations of human memory, and our attraction to flashiness rather than substance as the primary reasons for why fans, coaches, players, and GMs are misguided]. In sum, people usually remember Bryant’s makes, which are undoubtedly spectacular in nature, but not his misses.

So where do I stand?

First a plea to Kobe Nation…. Allow me to go on record by stating that Kobe Bryant is one of the 10 greatest players to ever play the game. By the time he retires, he will likely be top 5. He is a phenomenal all-around player in every aspect of the game, and possesses a unique combination of talent and skill, that in my opinion, can only be rivaled by Magic Johnson, Michael Jordan, LeBron James and Hakeem Olaujuwon. He also has a basketball IQ that is simply off the charts – a unique feel for the game that despite his numerous injuries, has allowed him to remain physically effective in a manner that is traditionally reserved for 20-somethings. Other than Michael Jordan, I have yet to see a player who displays the same level of ferocity, stubbornness, and will to win that Kobe Bryant does.

However, Henry Abbott is right. Kobe Bryant IS overrated in the clutch, and even more so when it comes to game winning/game tying shots. That’s right Kobe Nation, you heard me. In which universe does missing 79 out of 115 game winning/game tying shots constitute clutchness? Clutchness to me has always been defined basically and inherently. You either succeed and come through for your team, when your team needs you the most, or you don’t. And in 115 instances, during the time in which Bryant’s teams have needed him the most, he has succeeded only 36 times while failing 79 times. That’s a 31% success rate folks. It’s that simple.

We are not talking about a complex John Hollinger formula or algorithm. We are talking about a fairly straight forward metric – less than 24 seconds, time winding down, ball in Kobe’s hands, chance to win or tie, miss or make. All other variables are irrelevant:

- “Kobe is the most fearless”

- “Kobe wants the ball in his hands at the end of the game”

- “Kobe has the ability to make the most spectacular shots”

None of this matters. The only thing that matters is the result.

So that got me thinking – if the 36/115 stat includes both playoffs and regular season, how has Bryant performed in game winning and game tying shot situations during the playoffs alone? After all, playoff games are the ones that count the most, right? The pinnacle of pressure? The most important of time of the year when everything is at stake? Is there really a more clutch opportunity than a game winning/game tying shot in a playoff game?

The answer: Bryant is 7/25 or 28% -slightly worse during the playoffs than the regular season.

Keep in mind that the game winning/game tying shot is only ONE metric of clutch, and in a future article we will post additional data reviewing Kobe’s performance during the last 2 minutes, last 5 minutes, and the entire 4Q, which further substantiates my point. However, for now, we will focus on the game winning/game tying shot metric, which in my mind, represents the MOST pressure packed situations in a game.

Below is a breakdown of game winning/game tying shot attempt throughout Kobe Bryant’s 15 year career:

Kobe and the Clutch Playoff Performance Myth

 

[Professor Emeritus]

Sccit, stop posting those graphics that only cover random collections of seasons that make your guy look good.

What would penny average

I'n today's league?

I'm going 35-10-12

Not 35, he's 2 unselfish for that.

No reason why he couldn't give them 27-10-7 on 50,38,85 splits

Add 5steals and 6blocks to that.

Ya'all better be trolling.

No reason why a skinny, injury prone point guard who couldn't shoot threes wouldn't be averaging 27 and 10 in today's NBA?


I mean, I'm not saying that he couldn't be a valuable contributor on a championship team.

RESULTS? 5>3

NUMBERS? 35+ PPG > ANY INDIVIDUAL LEBRON SEASON

IMPACT? KOBE WON WITH GASOL AS HIS SECOND OPTION.. IN THE WEST.. LEBRON HAS NEVER WON WITH LESS THAN 2 ALLSTARS ON HIS SIDE

Who the heck were Lebron's two all-stars last year?

And at Kobe's great individual season being one where he didn't even sniff the MVP.

Shaq Rings.

KEVIN DURANT, DWYANE WADE, LARRY BIRD, DIRK NOWITZKI, SHAQUILLE ONEAL, CHARLES BARKLEY, DR J, MICHAEL JORDAN, REGGIE MILLER, ETC ETC HAVE ALL SAID KOBE > LEBRON

How many of them were still saying it after his 3rd Finals MVP?

 

[Mantis Toboggan M.D.]

Kobe and the Clutch Playoff Performance Myth (2011)





Kobe and the Clutch Playoff Performance Myth

That chasing23.com breakdown

Sccit, stop posting those dumb-ass graphics that only cover random collections of seasons that make your guy look good. Either post the career numbers, or don't post anything. Constantly posting selective TV graphics that cover arbitrary time periods just because they randomly match the period that helps your case just make you look like an idiot media worshiper.















Ya'all better be trolling.

No reason why a skinny, injury prone point guard who couldn't shoot threes wouldn't be averaging 27 and 10 in today's NBA?


I mean, I'm not saying that he couldn't be a valuable contributor on a championship team.









Who the heck were Lebron's two all-stars last year?

And at Kobe's great individual season being one where he didn't even sniff the MVP.

Shaq Rings.






How many of them were still saying it after his 3rd Finals MVP?

Kobe stans lost

 

[Sccit]

reg season....Im talking playoffs/finals

What model-dependent realism has to say about whether Kobe is clutch




A Stephen Hawking theory & the Kobe clutch debate

BRUH WHOEVER ARGUES THAT KOBE ISNT CLUTCH .... AND FURTHERMORE, ARGUES THAT LEBRON IS ... THATS THE NERD IN HIGH SCHOOL WHO NEVER MADE THE TEAM AND RARELY WATCHED GAMES, BUT WAS TOP STUDENT OF HIS MATH CLASS AND FOLLOWED THE SPORT BY PLAYING FANTASY BASKETBALL .. DONT BE THAT GUY. I MEAN, U HAVE SEEN THESE GUYS IN ACTION, RIGHT?