But then you have the ball out of his hands even more.
That limits him further. The kid has real passing ability and can work in a PnR heavy offensive scheme. But to think him at the 2 is better...I don't know, breh.
Last 18/19 NY Knicks season transmission: "F*** all the haters from you to SAS" See y'all in '20
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That limits him further. The kid has real passing ability and can work in a PnR heavy offensive scheme. But to think him at the 2 is better...I don't know, breh.
tremonthustler1
aka bx_representer
Just send him to Westchester already.
Trey Burke without Westchester would be playing Peyton Siva in Germany trying to relive their college days.
Sometimes players need a setting where they can walk away knowing they’re the best player on that court.
Send Frank down. Fizdale is being a snob about G-League but most coaches are snobs about thinking someone else could develop someone better than them.
Trey Burke without Westchester would be playing Peyton Siva in Germany trying to relive their college days.
Sometimes players need a setting where they can walk away knowing they’re the best player on that court.
Send Frank down. Fizdale is being a snob about G-League but most coaches are snobs about thinking someone else could develop someone better than them.
Columbo
Lieutenant
I have no problem with Frank going to the G league, i have no problem with the dnp
Only thing that annoys me is everyone crying about him, trade rumors and writing him off
At the very least hes going to be a good role player that can defend multiple positions.
The adversity is great for him and i hope we dont give up on him yet
Only thing that annoys me is everyone crying about him, trade rumors and writing him off
At the very least hes going to be a good role player that can defend multiple positions.
The adversity is great for him and i hope we dont give up on him yet
storyteller
Veteran
I definitely see your point here. With Mitch it's absolutely clear that coming off the bench and being cleared to be aggressive is the best of both worlds approach. With Knox, I can see that argument as well. His motor questions are something even he has acknowledged. But I still think that crashes and burns at Dotson getting benched. He was good before he got benched and was good when he came back in. There wasn't anything to fix with him. I'd put it this way; if you focus on Mitch, Knox and Frank then for sure there's logic to moving them to the bench (something I don't take issue with). If you look at Dotson, Kanter, Hezonja and Burke though; there's no difference from what they did before or after getting benched. Burke was always a volume scorer and I'd argue he's been even worse about forcing the issue for himself since that first little run he had when he got back. Kanter is Kanter. Hezonja might have found something against the Bucks, but the rest of his starts were no different from his bench play either. All of that is to say, if you put just the youngest and rawest players in a vaccuum then there's decent rationale for why they had their roles reduced; but if you look at the rest of the roster then there are examples of guys in shifting roles that have nothing to do with changing their games.
To clarify though, I'm not arguing that this is good or bad as an approach. I'm only saying that the approach isn't so much "eat what you kill" and more "how can I get the most production without upsetting you." That's why I mention the interviews from Burke, Hezonja and Kanter...to varying degrees (I ordered it best reaction to worst) each of those dude expressed some concern over DNP's which is a real contrast to Dot. Dotson responded well for sure; but Kanter couldn't even accept 30+ mpg off the bench without making scenes.
On that development goals tip; I agree with you that it's not just about minutes but minutes utilized the right way. My theory here though is that a coach can impact that moreso than some others here probably believe. I've been asking to run plays directly for Knox over the past couple of weeks; and I'd speculate that running just a couple of plays for Knox early had a bigger impact than bad press did even though that's the prevailing narrative. Pure speculation here, but I think you can get a bigger push for a player in a certain direction with the plays you call and role you place them in on the floor than by benching them for mistakes. Granted, you can go about it using the bench (especially early in their career) but I just see a different potentially more productive avenue...especially because we're not worried about wins.
Hell yeah, I respect your viewpoint and approach to these discussions too. I like that we can chop it up over a disagreement without resorting to a strawman and that you address the thoughts in a complete fashion. Makes for both of us to learn and see things through wider perspective. Definitely agreed on Mitch, but as I've mentioned above I don't think the approach has been cohesive across the roster. THJ and Trier are two players I'd like to see more accountability from on the defensive end and that's because I see them with better defensive potential than we're getting. I will say I'm impressed with Mudiay specifically...he's walked the walk on both ends when it comes to showing and proving so far.
I can like the example and breakdown. I can see that for sure. I'd say that I agree that Fiz has the same overarching goal which is player development. You can see it in some of these guys already. But I think both "grit and grind" and "eat what you kill" falls more in the "hell or high water" figurative speak than anything we're actually seeing in practice. I actually blame that somewhat for the guards turning playmaking into the third option (drive, pull-up THEN pass on the totem pole). Not to keep harping on play calls for Knox, but he went from forcing shots to doing so much more and again I don't pin that on anything moreso than confidence that he was going to get the ball more than just once or twice in his time out there. He didn't have to rush or force things because the ball was really traveling around and I loved that.
Here, I understand.
I do trust Fiz but I'd have to go out on a serious reach to try to predict what his algorithm is in deciding how he's dealing w/ the above.
I'll say that I wholeheartedly see why you have this opinion; but like Dotson & Mudiay's performances after a stretch of DNPs...I'm willing to bet it's not as simple as we think it is and FIz seems to know what he's doing when it comes to getting the best out of his players - veterans & youth - and regarding seeing incremental improvements as the year progresses. <--Other than Frank. Although, the "Fizdale Special" involving DNPs if only now happening w/ Frank and we will see if it seems to benefit Frankie like it did many of his peers.
Respect.
I feel you here too fam. Dot and Mudiay are serious success stories early on. Mitch has been growing defensively from day one (how about his defense on Giannis, if it wasn't a Saturday afternoon game my recap woulda been all about that). Knox has finally flashed the summer league upside we saw. Even Burke had a temporary wake up call and Hezonja finally showed some buy-in too. I don't want my complaints to be misconstrued as saying Fiz is doing poorly. He's done an pretty incredible job all things considered; but my concerns only fall to a handful of players that have a definite future here. So as impressed as I am with Mudiay and Vonleh especially; I'm hoping that by February we're seeing a clear focus on Mitch, Dot, Zo, Frank and Knox (technically THJ too but he's already getting that). There are real signs that Fiz is more or less taking it slow with the raw cats, so I'm good with waiting until then. I just want us to hit April knowing exactly what we need to target in the offseason and what roles those five kids are best suited to play in 2019/2020. To that end, I think we all have the same goals except for a couple of trolls that just show up to complain.
Bobby Lashleys eyebrows
Superstar
The only way, I would get rid of him is if we found another young player that can play two way ball.... or Kawhi Leonard space.
storyteller
Veteran
If Fiz isn't gonna play Frank (or just gonna banish him to the corners), I'm cool with the G-league too. I don't think it's necessary because we're not chasing wins, so we can get him his reps while he works on defending the best players in the world but if we're not gonna do that...G-league is just fine. Frank's gonna have value. I'm still fully confident in his three ball. Between his 3 point shooting in October (8 games, 4 attempts per game and 39% on those attempts); his free throw shooting (94% from the line and FT shooting correlates well with developing a jumper); and also his form...It'll come around. Once you get him shooting 3's at even 36% than you can utilize him as a three and D player that can guard PG's through SF's plus some PF's on a switch...that's a player every team utilizes to some extent. With KP, Knox and hopefully one of the Duke boys; having a player who doesn't need the ball in his hands and offers elite defense will be a great fit. You bookend that trio I just mentioned with Frank up top and Mitch inside...that's a really balanced squad even without mentioning the weapons in Zo and THJ or a potential max FA we might add.
seemorecizzy
Superstar
frank has a weird ass game
hes a 1 that doesnt like to drive the lane, or create on a regular basis.often passes to the first player open and falls back
and hes a 2 with no scoring abilties, who just shoots open shots that often miss
at the same time he can guard both positions at a high level
he reminds me of a player from the 90s
he needs a d league run. i wanna see how he plays with free reign to do what he wants against lower compeition. if hes still not agressive then, then we got a problem
BornStar
Marathon Continues
People are saying we are going to draft the Asian/Black player from Gonzaga... Anyone got the scoop on him. I have a hard time trusting dudes who balled overseas. Well not the bigs from overseas. Now shooting guards and point guards have to really show me something because shooting guards/point guards game is predicated on athleticism/aggression more than the bigs. Those pfs and centers from overseas have more fundamentals and can shoot the lights out.
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Wargames
One Of The Last Real Ones To Do It
Rui is a Junior Tweener, though he has been extending his shot to the mid range. Physically he's really good and can defend (most famously when his team beat the Duke big 3 and he personally stopped Barret from scoring the game winner) If I remember correctly his outside shot was bad. He would have been a first round pick last year near the end of the lottery.
https://www.si.com
Outside of the Duke boys who just have talent. It makes a lot of sense, Rui wouldn't be another project youth because he would be 21. So he wouldn't need to be on a team like now where even if we're losing we're giving (hopefully) players minutes. He's developing in college. So the fit makes sense. The Knicks should be a team gearing up for the playoffs with the return of KP and other FA's. Rui would have a good chance breaking the rotation. A lot of Big boards got Rui in the 8-10 range cause his ceiling isn't as high as some others. However, the ceiling is still high, it's just an age bias mostly. So he would likely be available wherever the Knick pick lands, he could contribute his freshman year, and there would be upside.
If this is true, it also makes you wonder about the PG spot in FA. Ja Morant would be be on the board until like 8. So is Mudiay the future? Maybe Kemba or Rubio? Regardless it is interesting stuff.
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storyteller
Veteran
I really liked Hachimura as a Freshman prospect even. He'd be a real intriguing get, that Duke performance is really some ish for heads to watch start to finish to get hype (like Frank's U-17 tournament play level hype). I'd probably take Ja Morant over him though. Ja would be a fit with all of our current personnel in a way that I don't think any of the other prospects do. I still go talent over fit, but I think he's more talented than mock drafts have him typically going (he's pushing top five to me). I really do see his explosion in a similar light to Russ and Rose.
Wargames
One Of The Last Real Ones To Do It
Ja is very nice and fits a need. He's shot up the draft board and deserves it based on his recent play.
Rui is intriguing though, though no draft board I've seen that has him in the top 10 cause he is a tweener, and going to be 21 by the time he is drafted.
How do the Knicks draft that far back unless they are doing a trade for an additional pick, or their scouts have him being very underrated? On the flip I would love to trade some of our guys for a later 1st round pick, but that is another discussion.
Ethnic Vagina Finder
The Great Paper Chaser
I hope the NBA rewards the Knicks for not tanking and ensure they get the first pick.
The Suns don't deserve another number 1 picks.
The Cavs gave away Kyrie for nothing, so they don't deserve the first pick neither.
The Hawks are too fukking stupid to get the first pick.
You can pretty much tell which teams are trying to compete and which ones aren't.
The Suns don't deserve another number 1 picks.
The Cavs gave away Kyrie for nothing, so they don't deserve the first pick neither.
The Hawks are too fukking stupid to get the first pick.
You can pretty much tell which teams are trying to compete and which ones aren't.
Youhadasparkwhenustarted
Superstar
Yeah Silver needs to rig that bytch for us, I heard he's a Knick fan on the low
Bobby Lashleys eyebrows
Superstar
Knox has a beautiful jumper.
Youhadasparkwhenustarted
Superstar
I like Fiz experimenting with Trier at the 1 again, if he can become a dynamic on ball guard who can play either position he becomes so much more valuable out there.
