Lakers Moving LeBron to the Starting Point Guard Position.

[The_Third_Man]

I doubt it. It's too early in the off season to make this decision especially since the Lakers have basically 3 head coaches on their staff

 

[Mars]

Lebron can facilitate from the SF position but LA still needs a guard who can get to the basket off the dribble. Do they have anyone who can do that?

 

[Everythingg]

Mo Williams made his only all-star appearance after he joined LeBron. Kyrie had the best seasons of his career with LeBron and all his postseason success came with LeBron, he talks about playing with LeBron wistfully now. Bosh and Wade both had the best-shooting seasons of their career with LeBron even though they had fewer attempts cause they were the #2 and #3 options, Bosh added a three and a defensive presence to his game. JR Smith, TT, Shump, Delly, Mosgov all got big contracts due to their increased production playing alongside Bron. Shane Battier, Ray Allen, Kyle Korver, James Jones, Chris Anderson, Mike Miller, Rashard Lewis, Richard Jefferson, Channing Frye, Jose Calderon and Jeff Green all extended their career and looked good doing it with Bron. Drew Gooden, Delonte West, Mario Chalmers, Norris Cole, Boobie Gibson, Sasha Pavlovic, JJ Hickson, and Joel Anthony all looked their best with Bron.

I said good players. The only good player you named that got better under Lebron was a 22 year old, 2 time all star, 1 time all star MVP, rookie of the year, and number 1 overall pick Kyrie Irving. THose are things he accomplished before Lebron stepped foot in Cleveland so he was already booming. Lets try again...

Kobe- Odom, Bynum, Pau
Jordan- Pippen
Duncan- Parker, Ginobli, Kawhi
Bird- Mchale

Who came up under Lebron that was good? Naming scrubs (relative to the NBA, all due respect to how great they are at their craft) doesnt count. And you know whats different from all these players from the ones that played with Lebron? They didnt have to change their game to fit with the star of the team. Odom got to be Odom, Bynum got to be Bynum and Pau got to be Pau. They werent forced to change their games to fit around a player who allegedly, "makes everyone around him better". Same with the other guys.

You don't understand the difference between a 2nd option and a 3rd option. What happened to Ron Artest when he went to the Lakers with Kobe? What happened to Dwight Howard? You had Karl Malone and Gary Payton as 20ppg scorers the season before they joined Kobe, what happened?

And yet none of those players were forced to change their game to fit in with Kobe. Karl Malone still got to be on the post/elbow. GP ran PG. Dwight was still in the post and a defensive force. Who was forced to become a catch and shoot 3pt shooter like Bosh was?You keep taling about ppg, that aint what Im referring to though..

Pau was a 2nd option on the Lakers. A high-volume 2nd-option can work just fine with a star - look at Wade, look at Kyrie. It's stupid to compare 2nd options to 3rd options when the exact same thing happened to 3rd options on the Kobe Lakers.

Bynum became an allstar as the third option behind Pau/Kobe. And if we say Odom was the 3rd option, well he got a 6th man award off of it. And again, none of them, had to change their games to fit in with Kobe. Cant say the same with Bosh and Lebron, but you know that

Especially dumb because Pau did drop in production when he joined the Lakers and even Shaq suffered having to play alongside Kobe. Kobe never let another player on his team shoot or handle the ball nearly as much as LeBron let Wade and Kyrie do it.

Look at the players you named. Kyrie and Dwayne Wade. Who has Kobe played that is on that level or even close to it? And even with that, Odom was allowed to run Point Forward.. Gasol was allowed to make plays from the post while Kobe played off of him. Lebron absolutely did that in Miami, but while also, most of the time, relegating Bosh to a catch and shoot option.

LeBron brought the Cavs from 17 wins without him to a 42-40 winning record by his 2nd season. They were at 50-32 in his 3rd season and took the champ Pistons to 7 in the ECSF. So you lied.

No I mistyped. And we can put a ban bet on that if you think Im lying because I have made this exact point with the correct information on these boards. If you wont call my bluff on that then lets just keep it moving..

You have to be completely clueless to claim that. It's not at all how LeBron played in Miami - there was a ton of ball movement there. And LeBron had the ball less than Kyrie in Cleveland. And LeBron was 78th in the league in average time of possession last year.

You just exposed yourself as knowing nothing except what you pick up from Coli hot takes.

Yes Miami is the only place that he played in a system. And even there he wasnt willing to play second fiddle to Wade which is why he wet the bed in the finals against the Mavs to the point where he couldnt even post up JJ Barea...

 

[Skooby]

 

[Lord_Chief_Rocka]

Take it as a wake-up call, dummy. Stop alligning yourself with such filth.

 

[G-Zeus]

BS. You cant tell me someone can do something as a number 1 option but all of a sudden become irrelevant as a third option based on defense. Maybe based on rhythm, but not based on what the defense is doing.

But even with that said, I may slide off Love because I do remember there being reports about him losing weight in his first or second year in Cleveland so maybe that had something to do with him moving more outside. But Bosh? Nah. He was great working from the elbow but mainly got relegated to being a three and D PF playing with Bron.

He never did it... He was shooting 44% as a PF... Y'all imagined him being a top player...had good games....mostly bad games ..
His claim to fame was those rebounds...LeBron left

 

[Gravity]

I wasnt giving Kobe credit for the players that came up under him but was saying that there are players that came up under him. You cant say that with Lebron. Im talking about good players. Not scrubs (relatively because all of them are great at their craft) being made better.

What good players came under kobe? The only 1 I can think of is bynum and like I said, if it was up to kobe he would've been traded for a passed prime Jason Kidd.

Lebron's teams usually have low draft picks because he usually leads them to deep playoff runs. So it's not like there's been high draft picks who've come up under lebron that underachieved.

Chris Bosh on playing with Lebron:
"“Yeah, it’s a lot more difficult taking a step back, because you’re used to doing something a certain way and getting looks a certain way. And then it’s like, well, no, for the benefit of the team, you have to get it here.”

You know and I know they were turned into strictly spot up shooters. They werent allowed to post or play the elbow because that doesnt fit Lebron's game. Deny it all you want but the proof is in the pudding.

You're lying. Yes, bosh and love had to fall back and that was for the better of the team. I imagine it would be tough going from the first option to the 3rd option in your prime. To say that they weren't allowed to post up is a lie tho. I even gave you a concrete verifiable example proving you wrong. Obviously they didn't get the same amount of touches nor were they featured as much but to say that they weren't allowed to do anything but spot up is just silly. You'll say anything.

Typo. Meant to say Lebron's first two years in regards to Kyrie's three which is why I mentioned, sarcastically, there being a huge difference. And I have post history to show that I know this distinction if you think Im lying


Is CP a shoot first PG? Of course not. He'll NEVER take as many shots as Harden. Never has, never will. So when he could be taking a shot, he's most likely instead, getting an assist. Lazy logic by you but thats expected.

You're the one who made the idiotic bron ball=harden ball comparison. That's your stupid ass logic. I brought up kyrie taking more more shots than lebron to call you on your "he stands with the ball at the the top for 20 seconds" lie and to refute that harden comparison. Your response was

Irrelevant who took more shots. That means that Lebron shared with someone else to do lebron ball just as Harden shared with CP3 two years ago.

You literally said that lebron shared with kyrie like harden shared with paul when he clearly didn't. Kyrie had much more usage and freedom playing with lebron vs paul playing with harden. This is what you trolls do tho. Y'all try to confuse folks with your lies and stupidity.

Its sad that you have grown men this emotionally involved in a sport that they benefit NONE from. I'll NEVER respect Harden or Bron's game. I hope they get every dollar +1 they want to get. Hope they take care of their families. Hope they get to live a long life and take care of their children. But I do not respect the way they play the game. Thats not hating, thats not trolling, thats an OPINION. The Lebron James system always places him at the center and forces everything to work around him. Its never a system (except in Miami) where he is a piece to a puzzle. NEVER. And when they try to put him in a system (Blatt/Walton) he rebuffs it... Its the same story everytime. That is why I dont respect his game.You dont have to agree with it, but to call me a troll just shows that you're too emotionally involved for this shyt..

I don't care what you do and don't like or respect. You're a nobody who clearly doesn't have a clear understanding of the game of basketball. Who cares what you think?

This is about you straight up lying and saying stupid shyt to justify your "opinion". Lying and saying verifiably dumb shyt just to support your "I don't like or respect Lebron's game" opinion is why you're a hater. I find it hilarious that you talk about folk being emotional when your whole take is based emotion. Since you don't "like" Lebron's game(emotional) you're incapable of being objective. You're clearly biased. There's no way that an objective basketball fan can't "respect" lebron as a player because he has proven himself to be one of the best players ever on the court. You don't have to like it but you should respect it if you want others to respect you as a fan. You're coming across like a scorned chic with a grudge. "I just don't like him *sucks teeth*". Tighten your wrist.

I don't necessarily like kawhi's game. Kawhi's game is ugly as fukk to me, but that doesn't stop me from being objective bout dude as a player. It has no bearing in how I talk about him.

 

[Dwight Howard]

kevin love took the same amount of threes with Minnesota.. the difference.. is.. they didnt let him post up as much but its more because he got exposed more than anything... when he went to a team that mattered and defense showed up against him..he shrunk.. was getting blocked, stripped..

without lebron he played the same in cleveland... being a spot up shooter is his best value cuz he sucks.

Exposed? Wait so when he was in minny bullying legit defenders in the post, that wasnt legitimate? When he dropped 51/14 on all NBA defensive Serge Ibaka it didnt count? I mean he shot the 3 ball regularly in minny too, but he always would gain rhythm in the post. That was his game. In Cleveland, he was quickly reduced to a spot up shooter and rarely got those inside touches and when he did it was off broken plays. His offensive rebounds decreased significantly because of this. He went from being probably one of the best offensive rebounders in the game (4.5 per) to averaging less than 2. His fg% dipped to 42%, on average he shot 5-6 less 2PA than he was accustomed to. All this points to him not being used properly. Having a PF that can hit the 3 is nice, but by reducing him to that is simply making him a lesser version of himself.
Here are some excerpt from articles around the time love was struggling in Cleveland.


Love is dominating like he once did in Minnesota

The primary complaint about Love's role last season was that he too often became a stationary spot-up shooter, which wasted his talents in the post.

 

[Floyd Pinkerton]

Wow. LA may not even make the playoffs.

 

[Mr swag]

Ben Simmons better be taking notes.

This is probably why magic got pushed out. He said he didn't want to run everything thru bron and wear him out.

I agree. Magic was an idiot. Having a 35 year old doing all the work wins championships

 

[Sex Luthor]

I agree. Magic was an idiot. Having a 35 year old doing all the work wins championships

They laughed at "load management" they really bout to see what that means now. At least they got boogie bc he gonna run point if they want him to or not

 

[Everythingg]

What good players came under kobe? The only 1 I can think of is bynum and like I said, if it was up to kobe he would've been traded for a passed prime Jason Kidd.

Lebron's teams usually have low draft picks because he usually leads them to deep playoff runs. So it's not like there's been high draft picks who've come up under lebron that underachieved.

The original statement was about good players that became better players playing with superstars. There isnt one with Lebron. Bynum, Gasol, and Odom ALL played their best ball with the Lakers. Kyrie is a better player now then he was on the Cavs (because he was on the rise then). D Wade was a better player before Lebron than after. Same with Bosh. Same with Love. You cant name a GOOD player that has gotten better playing with Lebron than they were before. Everyone has to sacrifice to fit in with him.

You're lying. Yes, bosh and love had to fall back and that was for the better of the team. I imagine it would be tough going from the first option to the 3rd option in your prime. To say that they weren't allowed to post up is a lie tho. I even gave you a concrete verifiable example proving you wrong. Obviously they didn't get the same amount of touches nor were they featured as much but to say that they weren't allowed to do anything but spot up is just silly. You'll say anything.


You're the one who made the idiotic bron ball=harden ball comparison. That's your stupid ass logic. I brought up kyrie taking more more shots than lebron to call you on your "he stands with the ball at the the top for 20 seconds" lie and to refute that harden comparison. Your response was


You literally said that lebron shared with kyrie like harden shared with paul when he clearly didn't. Kyrie had much more usage and freedom playing with lebron vs paul playing with harden. This is what you trolls do tho. Y'all try to confuse folks with your lies and stupidity.

You doing all that talking but aint saying nothing. Whats different from the way Lebron has been playing since Miami from the way Harden plays? Explain with detail how they both dont stand at the top of the key and score or get an assist everytime they come down the court? Lebron doesnt like to play in the post, and Harden cant. Neither runs off screens to score. Neither consistently screens to get others open (like Curry does). You saying "Kyrie handled the ball too!" doesnt change my point about the STYLE OF PLAY BEING THE SAME. So Kyrie got to handle the ball more than Paul did. So what? Kyrie is one, a score first PG, and two OUT TO PROVE A POINT THAT HES NOT A SIDEKICK. He most likely didnt want Lebron to come back in the first place. Its totally differnt from CP3 who is a pass first PG and a veteran trying to win a ring before he goes out.

I don't care what you do and don't like or respect. You're a nobody who clearly doesn't have a clear understanding of the game of basketball. Who cares what you think?

No you're a nobody because you're a nobody who whines about "white supremacists" in one thread, but then in shows his face in another showing how he is emotionally tied to "white supremacist" puppets in a "white supremacist" funded organization. So the real question is, who cares what you think?

This is about you straight up lying and saying stupid shyt to justify your "opinion". Lying and saying verifiably dumb shyt just to support your "I don't like or respect Lebron's game" opinion is why you're a hater. I find it hilarious that you talk about folk being emotional when your whole take is based emotion. Since you don't "like" Lebron's game(emotional) you're incapable of being objective. You're clearly biased. There's no way that an objective basketball fan can't "respect" lebron as a player because he has proven himself to be one of the best players ever on the court. You don't have to like it but you should respect it if you want others to respect you as a fan. You're coming across like a scorned chic with a grudge. "I just don't like him *sucks teeth*". Tighten your wrist.

I don't necessarily like kawhi's game. Kawhi's game is ugly as fukk to me, but that doesn't stop me from being objective bout dude as a player. It has no bearing in how I talk about him.

But I already said Lebron was a great player in this very thread. I just dont like or respect the way he plays. When you say Kawhi's game is ugly, a player who plays fundamental basketball, you are saying the same thing. And while I disagree, Im fine with that opinion. I like Kyrie's game, but some people dont respect or like the way he dribble dribble dribbles before taking a contested jelly layup. And thats fine. If they said he sucked or wasnt good at what he does, then I could call it hating. If they said "I dont like the way he plays" I could say "I disagree" but I wouldnt call them a troll for it. Because, unlike you, Im not emotionally tied to that shyt. Its entertainment and above all a DISTRACTION from what you should really be focusing on in this (to quote you) "white supremacist society".

 

[G-Zeus]

Exposed? Wait so when he was in minny bullying legit defenders in the post, that wasnt legitimate? When he dropped 51/14 on all NBA defensive Serge Ibaka it didnt count? I mean he shot the 3 ball regularly in minny too, but he always would gain rhythm in the post. That was his game. In Cleveland, he was quickly reduced to a spot up shooter and rarely got those inside touches and when he did it was off broken plays. His offensive rebounds decreased significantly because of this. He went from being probably one of the best offensive rebounders in the game (4.5 per) to averaging less than 2. His fg% dipped to 42%, on average he shot 5-6 less 2PA than he was accustomed to. All this points to him not being used properly. Having a PF that can hit the 3 is nice, but by reducing him to that is simply making him a lesser version of himself.
Here are some excerpt from articles around the time love was struggling in Cleveland.


Love is dominating like he once did in Minnesota

The primary complaint about Love's role last season was that he too often became a stationary spot-up shooter, which wasted his talents in the post.

Yeah because of a few good games and we gotta call it dominating...

Dude never dominated, never made the offs..just had a few big numbers and everyone started saying he was the best PF...

And got....exposed... If dude get free throws...he good...if the red doesn't give free throws...his post up is bad.

 

[Everythingg]

He never did it... He was shooting 44% as a PF... Y'all imagined him being a top player...had good games....mostly bad games ..
His claim to fame was those rebounds...LeBron left

You know what?

I'll concede that. We can scratch Kevin Love off the list, because though he did show more on the Timberwolves, he didnt do it consistently enough even then to warrant making him more of an option in an offense with Lebron and Kyrie. I'll give you that breh.

With that said, Im not giving you that with Bosh though...

 

[Professor Emeritus]

No I mistyped. And we can put a ban bet on that if you think Im lying because I have made this exact point with the correct information on these boards. If you wont call my bluff on that then lets just keep it moving..

You mistyped what? There is NO version of what you were trying to claim that could be typed correctly.

Kyrie at 18: Playing for Duke, upset in the Sweet Sixteen
Lebron at 18: Doubles the Cavs' wins from 17 to 35 in his rookie year

Kyrie at 19: Only 21 wins in his rookie season with the Cavs
LeBron at 19: Team goes 42-40 despite losing their 2nd-best player, first winning season since 1998

Kyrie at 20: 24 wins
LeBron at 20: 50 wins and nearly takes out the champ Pistons in a 7-game ECSF

Kyrie at 21: 33 wins
LeBron at 21: Takes the Cavs to the Finals

Comparing LeBron's success on entering the league to Kyrie's was the dumbest thing you could have said. Kyrie had 3 years after college and STILL hadn't even reached the win total that LeBron got his rookie year straight out of high school.

Who was forced to become a catch and shoot 3pt shooter like Bosh was?You keep taling about ppg, that aint what Im referring to though.

Bosh wasn't forced to become a "catch and shoot 3pt shooter" by Bron, he averaged 0.6 threes/game for his first three years on Miami. Bosh took more 3s in the first 82 games after Bron left Miami than he had for the entire 4 years Bron was on the team. You just roll with idiot Coli narratives that have nothing to do with the facts.

Bynum became an allstar as the third option behind Pau/Kobe. And if we say Odom was the 3rd option, well he got a 6th man award off of it. And again, none of them, had to change their games to fit in with Kobe. Cant say the same with Bosh and Lebron, but you know that

Oh, so all-star appearances are the big measure now? LeBron had his 3rd-option make the all-star game plenty of times, and usually getting them more than the 13 shots/game that Bynum got playing with Kobe.

You're just shifting the goalposts to fit your Kobe narrative. If all-star as the 3rd option is the big proof, then LeBron kills Kobe on that.

And you're still ignoring all the other 3rd options, like Payton and Artest and Dwight, who had to change their game significantly to play with Kobe. Even Shaq's game was affected dramatically by Kobe.

Look at the players you named. Kyrie and Dwayne Wade. Who has Kobe played that is on that level or even close to it?

Wait, so now Kyrie and Wade are TOO good, so the fact that they were great alongside LeBron doesn't count?

So they don't count if they're too good like Kyrie/Wade, they also don't count if they're good but not stars like JR and TT. Even Mo Williams making ONE All-star game alongside Bron doesn't count, but Bynum making ONE All-Star game does count and so does Odom even though he didn't make it at all.

You should definitely be on ESPN, you'd fit right in.

I said good players. The only good player you named that got better under Lebron was a 22 year old, 2 time all star, 1 time all star MVP, rookie of the year, and number 1 overall pick Kyrie Irving. THose are things he accomplished before Lebron stepped foot in Cleveland so he was already booming. Lets try again...

Kobe- Odom, Bynum, Pau
Jordan- Pippen
Duncan- Parker, Ginobli, Kawhi
Bird- Mchale

Let's repeat - Mo Williams doesn't count as a good player getting better under LeBron even though he made his only All-Star game with him, but Odom does count even though he never came close to making an all-star game alongside Kobe.

I hope you see you're talking ignorant as hell.

And if Odom and Pau improved while on the Lakers it was a marginal difference at best, and that would have something do with being under Phil Jackson, not playing with Kobe. Damn near everyone on your list was coached by either Phil or Pop, it is the COACH that develops talent.

Outside of Odom/Pau which shouldn't even be on there, everyone else you listed was a rookie with talent who developed. What did you expect them to do? You seriously gonna claim that some teammate made them develop into a star and not the coaching? And who the hell did LeBron's teams ever draft who should be up there?

And I love how you dismissed most of the players I named for not being good enough to count while you dismissed the first two I named for being too good. Your goalposts keep shifting like a mofo.

Who came up under Lebron that was good? Naming scrubs (relative to the NBA, all due respect to how great they are at their craft) doesnt count. And you know whats different from all these players from the ones that played with Lebron? They didnt have to change their game to fit with the star of the team. Odom got to be Odom, Bynum got to be Bynum and Pau got to be Pau. They werent forced to change their games to fit around a player who allegedly, "makes everyone around him better". Same with the other guys.

Notice that everyone you named was a 4 or a 5 who took 13 shots a game or less. You're REALLY stretching here.

"As long as you're a big and you don't take many shots, your game fits right in with Kobe." Great praise.

What about Shaq? Malone? Payton? Artest? Dwight? Where is the high-volume player who got to "be themselves" alongside Kobe? Where is the star perimeter player or wing who got to "be themselves" alongside Kobe.

And yet none of those players were forced to change their game to fit in with Kobe. Karl Malone still got to be on the post/elbow. GP ran PG. Dwight was still in the post and a defensive force.

That comment is so bad I'm just gonna leave it there.

Yes Miami is the only place that he played in a system.

Wow, we moved from "LeBron refuses to ever play under a system" to "LeBron won most of his championships under a system" real quick.

Outside of Miami, which coach had a proven offensive system better than what the coach actually ran with LeBron?

And even there he wasnt willing to play second fiddle to Wade which is why he wet the bed in the finals against the Mavs to the point where he couldnt even post up JJ Barea...

Start with a straight dumb post and end with one too.

You keep spouting Coli narratives though, it'll get you somewhere one day.