Knicks should have kept David Lee.

[G.O.A.T Squad Spokesman]

Don't play stupid. You know how the NBA works, it's the place, or it's the money, or it's both.

It attracted Amar'e. The team was good again, and it attracted Melo. Melo has already said he would have signed with the Knicks in the summer, but it didn't come to that, because he was traded mid season. He chose the knicks, he chose new york.

Many digs at the Knicks, their franchise, their base, and the city are legit. Use some of them.

LeBron didn't want to come to New York, he wanted to go to Miami with Wade and Bosh. If the Knicks had more players, maybe it would have been different, maybe not. Doesn't matter. They signed Amar'e, Signed Melo to a max deal, signed Chandler.

The Knicks attracted 3 max players, that were all in line to get max deals from other teams as well. I'm not sure why some people choose to argue facts, when you could just say "the knicks management is fukking idiots." And be MORE valid.

You said all that to say what? The premise of this thread is that the Knicks fukked up by signing Amare and trading DLee. I think the Knicks would've gotten Melo even if Amare wasn't there. Him staying in Denver wasn't an option for Lala.

 

[I.V.]

I think the Knicks would've gotten Melo even if Amare wasn't there.

But here's the thing: Nobody gives a fukk what you think in this scenario.

The facts are in: Melo has stated he came because he wanted to play with Amar'e. He said the team's resurgence is what he wanted to be a part of. Your claim that they'd have gotten him anyway is baseless, especially when coupled with the facts that Melo wasn't talking about coming to New York until AFTER Amar'e came, and the team started winning again.

Every metric measuring Lee's game, his offensive ratings, his efficiency, his rebounding percentages - they've all dropped since he was a 23 year old Knick. He's going to be making 16 Million a year NEXT season and the season AFTER THAT.

Smart people that cover basketball also agree that his contract is an albatross and his impact on the team is NEGATIVE: http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/57847/warriors-so-good-without-david-lee

Why are you still carrying this torch? The knicks made the right move, even with Amar'e's career collapsing shortly after Melo Arrived... Melo still arrived. They were second in the East last year after a DECADE of horrible, terribleness. They're again going to be one of the better teams in the East this year.

And next year... Amar'e will be an expiring deal, Chandler will be an expiring deal, Melo will be an expiring deal. And just like that, they'll have Brought the team to relevance, drove revenues, re-energized a fan base, and given themselves flexibility with their future.

You like to assume if they kept david lee, this all would still have happened. But you do it in the face of facts pointing to the opposite. Which is why most people in here won't argue with you anymore... you don't listen to reason. You don't listen to facts. You keep blindly believing some bullshyt, and arguing with anybody that will listen.

Now you have David Lee, and he's making your team worse.

And you still want to pick this argument, like the village idiot emboldened by everyone's collective decision to ignore him.

Your team is good, and fun to watch, and Steph is a star, and Barnes is developing faster than anybody thought. Be happy with that, and let this die.

Because you're so wrong it's embarrassing.

 

[beenz]

You said all that to say what? The premise of this thread is that the Knicks fukked up by signing Amare and trading DLee. I think the Knicks would've gotten Melo even if Amare wasn't there. Him staying in Denver wasn't an option for Lala.

melo was coming to the knicks no matter what. so for denver to make out with all those players when they had no leverage in terms of other teams they could have traded melo to was a great deal for them at the time.

if the knicks wouldn't have been in such a thirst mode, they should have just waited out the season and signed him in free agency. he was coming regardless. they could have probably kept some of their young talent if they waited.

 

[cleanface coney]

30 pages on David Lee tho

 

[Mr. Jack Napier]

I love how fans of other teams who claim they hate the Knicks ALWAYS want to put their 2 cents in regarding the Knicks.

 

[No Homo]

Melo was coming to knicks anyway if he made it to free agency. Thing was the nets were trying to get him which forced the knicks hand also plus melo wanted that extra year of guaranteed money. fter lebron left cleveland though, Denver wasnt going to just let him walk also.

 

[NY's #1 Draft Pick]

Y nikkas keep uppin this shytty thread?

This is like that fukkin who won the Denver vs ny trade argument

 

[Liquid]

This struggle thread is still going?

I thought this thread was shut down after post #4

 

[G.O.A.T Squad Spokesman]

But here's the thing: Nobody gives a fukk what you think in this scenario.

The facts are in: Melo has stated he came because he wanted to play with Amar'e. He said the team's resurgence is what he wanted to be a part of. Your claim that they'd have gotten him anyway is baseless, especially when coupled with the facts that Melo wasn't talking about coming to New York until AFTER Amar'e came, and the team started winning again.

Every metric measuring Lee's game, his offensive ratings, his efficiency, his rebounding percentages - they've all dropped since he was a 23 year old Knick. He's going to be making 16 Million a year NEXT season and the season AFTER THAT.

Smart people that cover basketball also agree that his contract is an albatross and his impact on the team is NEGATIVE: http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/57847/warriors-so-good-without-david-lee

Why are you still carrying this torch? The knicks made the right move, even with Amar'e's career collapsing shortly after Melo Arrived... Melo still arrived. They were second in the East last year after a DECADE of horrible, terribleness. They're again going to be one of the better teams in the East this year.

And next year... Amar'e will be an expiring deal, Chandler will be an expiring deal, Melo will be an expiring deal. And just like that, they'll have Brought the team to relevance, drove revenues, re-energized a fan base, and given themselves flexibility with their future.

You like to assume if they kept david lee, this all would still have happened. But you do it in the face of facts pointing to the opposite. Which is why most people in here won't argue with you anymore... you don't listen to reason. You don't listen to facts. You keep blindly believing some bullshyt, and arguing with anybody that will listen.

Now you have David Lee, and he's making your team worse.

And you still want to pick this argument, like the village idiot emboldened by everyone's collective decision to ignore him.

Your team is good, and fun to watch, and Steph is a star, and Barnes is developing faster than anybody thought. Be happy with that, and let this die.

Because you're so wrong it's embarrassing.

fukk outta here, Lee led the league in double doubles last year and was an allstar in the talent stacked western conference. If that's hurting the team the Knicks wish they could find a guy to hurt their team.

 

[I.V.]

Lee led the league in double doubles last year

You sound like the old white guys talking about the importance of RBI's. This is an empty statistic, affected more by the type of players on his team, and is not a statement on his own abilities.

He played 1500 minutes last season without a legit big next to him. He played 1000 minutes in 3 guard lineups, without a small forward, often as the center. His rebounding stats are inflated by his lineups, and pace - where the warriors were 4th in the nba. More shots = more rebounds. Fewer rebounders around him = more rebounds.

You don't take any of that into account, and don't acknowledge the fact that his stats and ratings are in a 5-year downslide ACROSS THE BOARD.

It's fine. You're patently wrong. Every bullshyt argument you put forward has been put to bed. Your team is younger and more exciting - that should be enough.

You can't have this one, because facts.

 

[G.O.A.T Squad Spokesman]

You sound like the old white guys talking about the importance of RBI's. This is an empty statistic, affected more by the type of players on his team, and is not a statement on his own abilities.

He played 1500 minutes last season without a legit big next to him. He played 1000 minutes in 3 guard lineups, without a small forward, often as the center. His rebounding stats are inflated by his lineups, and pace - where the warriors were 4th in the nba. More shots = more rebounds. Fewer rebounders around him = more rebounds.

You don't take any of that into account, and don't acknowledge the fact that his stats and ratings are in a 5-year downslide ACROSS THE BOARD.

It's fine. You're patently wrong. Every bullshyt argument you put forward has been put to bed. Your team is younger and more exciting - that should be enough.

You can't have this one, because facts.

fukk outta here with that shyt. When we were extra small with Steph and Monta it's not like we were 4th in rebounds back then, we were dead last in rebounds the year before Lee got here.

 

[nieman]

You sound like the old white guys talking about the importance of RBI's. This is an empty statistic, affected more by the type of players on his team, and is not a statement on his own abilities.

He played 1500 minutes last season without a legit big next to him. He played 1000 minutes in 3 guard lineups, without a small forward, often as the center. His rebounding stats are inflated by his lineups, and pace - where the warriors were 4th in the nba. More shots = more rebounds. Fewer rebounders around him = more rebounds.

You don't take any of that into account, and don't acknowledge the fact that his stats and ratings are in a 5-year downslide ACROSS THE BOARD.

It's fine. You're patently wrong. Every bullshyt argument you put forward has been put to bed. Your team is younger and more exciting - that should be enough.

You can't have this one, because facts.

David Lee has ALWAYS been a rebounding machine. He just has a knack for the ball. It's definitely not an empty stat because he also knows what to do with the ball once he grabs the reb. How are his stats down across the board when he was at 11rpg last season and year prior he was at 9.5. His FG percentage increased, his assists, FT percentages.

If you like Amare better, that's one thing but David Lee is the better player and still productive, does things Amare doesn't/can't do. Also, there were rumblings of Melo going to NY a full year before Amare arrived. Melo was going to be in NY regardless (because of Lala); the problems were how was he going to get there (FA or trade), and who would you have there in-place to be instant competitors. I am still one of those that believe that David Lee on the team would've made them better. One he was "healtier", he's a rebounder, he can finish anywhere on the court and he's a superior passer. As for defense in the interior, it's not like they really have that now. Chandler maybe a different story, but he's not a star anyway. He can be shipped for anything.

 

[G.O.A.T Squad Spokesman]

David Lee has ALWAYS been a rebounding machine. He just has a knack for the ball. It's definitely not an empty stat because he also knows what to do with the ball once he grabs the reb. How are his stats down across the board when he was at 11rpg last season and year prior he was at 9.5. His FG percentage increased, his assists, FT percentages.

If you like Amare better, that's one thing but David Lee is the better player and still productive, does things Amare doesn't/can't do. Also, there were rumblings of Melo going to NY a full year before Amare arrived. Melo was going to be in NY regardless (because of Lala); the problems were how was he going to get there (FA or trade), and who would you have there in-place to be instant competitors. I am still one of those that believe that David Lee on the team would've made them better. One he was "healtier", he's a rebounder, he can finish anywhere on the court and he's a superior passer. As for defense in the interior, it's not like they really have that now. Chandler maybe a different story, but he's not a star anyway. He can be shipped for anything.

 

[I.V.]

David Lee has ALWAYS been a rebounding machine. He just has a knack for the ball. It's definitely not an empty stat because he also knows what to do with the ball once he grabs the reb. How are his stats down across the board when he was at 11rpg last season and year prior he was at 9.5. His FG percentage increased, his assists, FT percentages.

First, I'm talking about percentages and metrics. They're all down. He's grabbing rebounds at a lower percentage than he was four-five years ago - which is exactly what we're talking about.
His shooting percentages are down, his efficiency is way down - it's ROUNDLY ACCEPTED AND UNDERSTOOD that he's hurting that Warriors team - with just the latest example being the link I provided.

You're comparing him to his stats in a lockout-shortened season. You're still not factoring pace or lineups, and I was refering to the "most double doubles" as an empty stat - comparable to RBIs. Because it is. These are facts, look them up. Look at his ORB% and DRB% from 4-5 years ago. Look where it is now. Look at his True Shooting percentage and his EFG. It's all sliding downward.

The fact is, Blackthoughts overrates lee. Who's simply not a great player. He's good. That's it. He's not dominant in any way, shape, or form.

If you like Amare better,

It would be. But that's never been the argument.

It's: Would the Knicks have been better if they kept Lee. And the answer is no. Amar'e was a much better offensive threat when he signed. He became the focal point of the offense, he was dominant and efficient, and that's what brought Melo.

Melo wasn't coming to play with Lee and Gallo.


that's one thing but David Lee is the better player and still productive, does things Amare doesn't/can't do.

Totally. Especially because Amar'e can't do much of anything anymore.

Also, there were rumblings of Melo going to NY a full year before Amare arrived.

And this is where the mistake gets made. THIS IS PATENTLY UNTRUE. There were 'rumblings' in the way there 'rumblings' LeBron was coming to New York. Which is to say, there was nothing. Period.

Until the Knicks were rolling, and the Garden was packed again, and the team was winning - Melo hadn't said he wanted to go to New York. it came after Amar'e, after the team caught fire.


Melo was going to be in NY regardless (because of Lala);

Again. This is your opinion. It's not a fact at all. Melo is worth MILLIONS lala isn't. She was going to go where he went. Don't be silly. Grant Hill was supposed to come to New York because of his wife. I've been here, I've heard all the rumors and barbershop talk. These things aren't true.


I am still one of those that believe that David Lee on the team would've made them better. One he was "healtier", he's a rebounder,

He's still a horrible defender, and next to Tyson, you don't need a rebounder. You need a man that can score consistently in an iso situation. That's not Lee.

he can finish anywhere on the court

This is also untrue. He can shoot, and he rebounds, but he can't score one-on-one consistently. You cant' throw it to him in the post and tell him "go get a basket" - his offensive game has a massive gap in it. Which none of you seem to acknowledge.

and he's a superior passer.

yes.

As for defense in the interior, it's not like they really have that now.\

Chandler.

Chandler maybe a different story,

Ahh, there we go "a different story"

but he's not a star anyway.

Just a DEFENSIVE PLAYER OF THE YEAR

He can be shipped for anything.

WUT?

Again. The argument is not "Who's better now" the argument is - "Who would have done the most good for the Knicks" - And the answer is UNQUESTIONABLY Amar'e. Because of facts. Because of what happened.

He turned the team around. He attracted and courted Melo.

That is what turned the knicks from a laughing stock to a top team in the east last year. Period.

Now they're both players passed their prime, with bad contracts their team would like to unload.

But next year, Amar'e is an expiring deal. Lee isn't.

 

[ThaBronxBully]

Again. The argument is not "Who's better now" the argument is - "Who would have done the most good for the Knicks" - And the answer is UNQUESTIONABLY Amar'e. Because of facts. Because of what happened.

He turned the team around. He attracted and courted Melo.

That is what turned the knicks from a laughing stock to a top team in the east last year. Period.

Now they're both players passed their prime, with bad contracts their team would like to unload.

But next year, Amar'e is an expiring deal. Lee isn't.

The Audacity Of This Thread Going So Far SMH