Kazuchika Okada leaving New Japan - Expected to go to AEW
- Thread starter Cattle Mutilation
- Start date
Party arty.. I don’t think anyone has an issue with the quality of Edges matches or the feud with a Christian my brother
I think the general consensus is that AEW hasn’t presented anything he’s done as… idk, important? He’s quickly become just another name on the roster due to presentation..
Like when you look at what CM Punk is doing in WWE currently… all he’s done is cut a few promos and wrestle on a house show, but whenever he’s on tv it’s been presented like it’s the biggest thing in the world. They’ve conditioned the viewer to believe that a Punk appearance is special and “must see”.. right now they’re advertising a Punk and Cody segment like it’s the main event of the show. Gotta appreciate the strategic marketing.
Meanwhile Edges run has been the opposite. He’s wrestling often and putting on quality performances, but it’s been marketed and presented so poorly that he seems insignificant at this point. Again, just another name on the roster. Nothing is separating him from the field.. and that’s all on Tony and the booking. Going out there to wrestle Griff Garrison types, and having heatless trio tag matches against random makeshift mogel embassy cats is doing him no favors.
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Cattle Mutilation
Superstar
Because everywhere else in Japan pays even less than New Japan
Cattle Mutilation
Superstar
As has been stated repeatedly on here by me, what Copeland is doing right now is exactly what he himself said he wants to be doing - working with young talent. Griff Garrison in particular is one he has mentioned by name as someone he wanted to work with.
He's in the stage of his career where he wants to help bring the next generation along, not go into business for himself all the time like a carny.
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And I don’t have a problem with it. I actually like Griff. I think I saw Edge himself saying he wanted to wrestle the Griffs of the world to Bully Ray or someone.. If that’s what Edge wants to do, more power to him.
That doesn’t negate the fact that it presents him poorly though
I’m sure Punk could have a banger with Cedric Alexander on WWE Main Event tomorrow, live on peacock… aaaand it would benefit absolutely nobody by presenting CM Punk like he and Cedric Alexander are on the same level. In fact it stains everything they’ve put into his presentation, which is really the point.
AEW doesn’t seem to act strategically in a lot of what they do. They’re all about putting on a good show with quality matches, which is fine.. but it hurts them in a lot of ways. A good match means nothing if nobody is invested in it
Finn Baller
Superstar
it's not helping the company, he's chipping away at his star appeal. A live TV event with Bryan Danielson, Jon Moxley and Edge should not be doing less fans than WWE house shows in Las Cruces, NM or Montgomery, AL
What was the follow up on Griff Garrison or Lee Moriarty? They had a back and forth match and did nothing after. If he wants to "help the next generation" then he should take an L to one of these guys in his open challenges and work a full blown program with them.
He's paying Edge millions of dollars and it's not making a single dent on attendance or ratings
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@Cattle Mutilation I felt the same way when Bryan Danielson returned from a career threatening injury and WWE had him feuding with Big Cass btw… like way to suck the life out of what was initially a big deal. Now my man’s is just another wrestler on the roster
I get the idea behind working with the youngin’s, don’t get me wrong.. but when guys like Moxley be out there going 50/50 with Komander type nikkas, that shyt be doing no favors for anyone.
I get the idea behind working with the youngin’s, don’t get me wrong.. but when guys like Moxley be out there going 50/50 with Komander type nikkas, that shyt be doing no favors for anyone.
Finn Baller
Superstar
@Cattle Mutilation I felt the same way when Bryan Danielson returned from a career threatening injury and WWE had him feuding with Big Cass btw… like way to suck the life out of what was initially a big deal. Now my man’s is just another wrestler on the roster
I get the idea behind working with the youngin’s, don’t get me wrong.. but when guys like Moxley be out there going 50/50 with Komander type nikkas, that shyt be doing no favors for anyone.
Young guys getting over in a competitive loss worked better back when matches were a lot shorter and multiple squash matches took place on shows. It stood out because it was different and unexpected. Most AEW TV matches go 10+ minutes and even the Kommanders of the world get their shyt in against guys much higher on the card. Griff Garrison cutting a mediocre promo and going 10 minutes with Edge isn't standing out compared to other matches in the company. Hell we seen saw first hand that an upset by a young guy (Action Andretti) didn't mean shyt because they didn't follow up with it remotely.
"Helping the young talent" happens backstage for the most part unless someone is willing to stick their neck out to work an entire program with a young guy over months of TV time.
Batsute
The Lion Choker
When I first got into NJ I said it “Ka-zoo-chee-ka.” I even heard Rocky say it like that on commentary.
It can be said both ways, ka-zoo-che-ka is the Japanese combining the zu & chi together for the sake of brevity. You’ll usually hear the shorten version in the cities and the proper way they’ll stress the syllables in the country side.
They do it with a lot of words, especially shi, chi, & tsu
Desu = des
Tomodachi = tomo-dash
Ikimashyta = iki-mash-ta
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John Cena’s US open challenge did irreversible damage. Bookers relying on putting undercard guys in competitive matches with maineventers in an effort to get them over
The thing is people don’t realize it was mainly effective because Cena had been presented as the be all end all, head and shoulders above the entire roster-schmega face up until that point, so he was bulletproof in terms of importance. Show was still centered around anything he was doing so he was never gonna come off insignificant
And besides that, it’s not like Cena was out there having 15 minute matches with Curt Hawkins on velocity… it was still presented as the centerpiece point of RAW, and his opponents were people like KO and Sami who actually benefited and were used in some capacity afterward. He wasn’t going 50/50 with Adam Rose only for homie to be jobbing a week later on a secondary show nobody watches
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Cattle Mutilation
Superstar
The Griff match lasted 6:37
Finn Baller
Superstar
oh wow that changes everything
the Cattle special of arguing semantics because he knows there isn't a reasonable defense for AEW in the actual heart of the argument
Cattle Mutilation
Superstar
I don’t even care about your argument. I’m just getting the facts straight like I usually have to do with your posts.oh wow that changes everything
the Cattle special of arguing semantics because he knows there isn't a reasonable defense for AEW in the actual heart of the argument
Art Barr
INVADING SOHH CHAMPION
Edge is just an and has been reduced to an enhancement talent.
trying to compare edge to punk.
in any capacity of draw.
just makes no sense.
plus edge being buried by proxy for the age of cena.
will always make edge have a downplayed personality and resulting downolayed draw.. Edge was never a great much of anything. As christian was always the better talent. Plus imo edge always needed Christian and neither drew.
till Christian began to dominated the light hw division and character direction from Christian's blonde portrayal.
as lestat in visual presentation of the brood. to give them a look.
of an interview with a vampire gateway character portrayal visually as a draw. Instead of just some guys with spooky music, colonial blouses and a goblet.
So perception wise edge has never had convincability. So trying to compare edge to punk. When also edge has no real drawing indie chops to pull from. To know how to distance himself on the book.
away in meteoric draw from the pack. Punk knows how to have the summer of punk in amy promotion.
to overshadow any company man Cena draw. Punk has numerous indie era's to draw from.
to make us care as actual wrasslin fans. Punk has his chase angle draw. Punk has i will hold this company hostage draw. Punk has his scrawny swarmy chicken shyt heel draw. Punk also has an actual Indy engine that could draw frfr. That is given fan sentiment to be successful fighting a corporate machine.
Edge does not and never was a grassroots maineventer like punk.
Edge has no drawing days to reference like punk without the wwe. So on no day.
should anyone expect edge a wwe company man. To do much else than what he is doing now. Which is putting over his better higher quality worker friend. Plus have his higher quality worker friend showcase. who was the real talent. Edge is just drawing in the capacity.
edge would have always drawn in.
had he not been a McMahon man crush draw based guy.
So edge is just enhancing his friend. Like the emhancement talent edge always was. If edge was this dominant promotion drawing guy.
People would know he has as many world title Reigns in succession booking wise.
than arguably most champions in history. Plus I believe without looking it up. edge may have as many wwe title Reigns.
as Cena, reigns or orton too. Yet no one in perception will give edge that same distinction in draw. Even with being a mcmahon man crush. As edge always settled.
as just a guy who was given the book. Edge has never been the guy.
you book the whole promotion around.
past setup for the golden goose. When in reality edge had the most salacious opportunity.
to draw in wrasslin modern history. Yet is still not a distinct mainevent level draw. Which should speak volumes.
Punk incomparison is a real grassroots draw. Who is defiant enough that punk's draw is also built on.
what happens when grassroots draw. Goes against the corporate big bad funded monster.
So of course punk looks better. Punk made his name. While edge was just a.
look what we found article in wwf magazine.
before being a recipient of the McMahon man crush push.
Art Barr
Art Barr
INVADING SOHH CHAMPION
And I don’t have a problem with it. I actually like Griff. I think I saw Edge himself saying he wanted to wrestle the Griffs of the world to Bully Ray or someone.. If that’s what Edge wants to do, more power to him.
That doesn’t negate the fact that it presents him poorly though
I’m sure Punk could have a banger with Cedric Alexander on WWE Main Event tomorrow, live on peacock… aaaand it would benefit absolutely nobody by presenting CM Punk like he and Cedric Alexander are on the same level. In fact it stains everything they’ve put into his presentation, which is really the point.
AEW doesn’t seem to act strategically in a lot of what they do. They’re all about putting on a good show with quality matches, which is fine.. but it hurts them in a lot of ways. A good match means nothing if nobody is invested in it
Khan has to learn to book and create angles with purpose.
Which khan Is learning on the fly and doing an actual good job at it.
When watching wwe.
I never got no matches on rego programming. Plus hogun stopped wrasslin on rego programming so fast. I never saw any reason to watch wwf after discovering nwa later at night further down the uhf channel. Plus you find out wwf is not worth buying in any capacity. As none of their merchandise is good. Yet since I bought my own toys and ppvs as a kid. I know wwf is bullshyt and always has been inferior in every possible way as an actual product. So I do not have these nostalgia hang ups.
other people have about wrasslin. Just because thunderlips showed up on their TV the next da. after they saw rocky iii. Plus I am Not white. So I have no skin in the game. Or dog in the race.
to get or understand any of the southern racist connections.
people have that makes wrasslin divisive.
So I never bought into the southern or blue blood ideals of wwf vs the territory system ideals.
I have always existed in what product was higher quality and rewarding to the viewer. Which became one sided. when bischoff made wcw fukkin stoopid for hogun. Even in the wcw merger buyout of nwa. Wcw in its most confusing state was always better than any hogun programming. Yet when hogun takes over wcw.
from wwf before the nwo. Wcw went from incredible malenko main events. to hogun makes a mockery of wcw flair and the whole promotion lineage. That if not for the hail Mary of the nwo turn. Wcw may have died back then to not even see the boom. As wcw basically brought on hogun.
Then sank in similar quality.
in psychology and workrate to hogun era wwf on a wcw stage.
It just so happens.
people in nostalgia only remember the thundelips spectacle gateway centered around hogun. With no general frame of reference to anything else. I get it. It makes sense.
Wwf fit into being a edgy draw for a kid. It aired past bedtime on eighties post eddie murphy Saturday night live for Pete christ sake. To be and have lore of does it exist or does it not.
as a draw for children as a gateway. It was the universal kids can stay up past their bedtime show and entertainment. The whole family would be up.
Late night on Saturday past a child bedtime. Completely bonding woth wwf and hogun as the back drop. I totally get it.
Yet in getting the nostalgia of this moment.
that wwf shares as a coming of age gateway.
with most people in general jn America.
As American wwf served.
as the first foray in connecting as a family.
Right at the beginning dawn of the technological American home of the future. shyt rocky had the first appearance in the mainstream of robbie the robot. So wwf shares a key nostalgia moment to allow children into American nightlife. past their bedtime with their actual parents. Before the divorce generation. Leading into the divorce and single parent generation as well. Couple this with the fact wrasslin.
maybe the last gateway nightlife thing. Where parents and children had to actually weigh and consult one another about the content. Wwf wrasslin may be.
the last general gateway mainstream dialogue starter for the American home.
That I believe people are emotionally and quietly demonstrative about a number of positove to neg based ways. Given the emotional weight.
that time period carries for the general American.
As wrasslin is attached to the weird coming of age period. Where as a kid. You noticed things change in content from cartoons to adult programming. Plus the time of the day. While getting acclimated to coming of age as a kid.
So wwf has this distinct gateway to American life and a time in america. That centers around booms and changes in American dynamics. That can not be recreated and the nostalgia in general attached to that is powerful.
Yet On no day.
Has wwf presented this product. That generally showcased wrasslin as a quality product in general.
Aew is just a new gateway large company. Who has none of the nostalgia attachment that wwf has. So to try to compare them past just being wrasslin companies. I find to be divisive. As wwf has a head start and nostalgia based gateway.
That aew will Never compete with.
What aew has to do.
Is creste quality longterm. So eventually the it is not supppsed to be good carni mantra of mcmahon In wwf. Gets exposed in legacy for wwe as a company. While aew higher quality inring product and scope. Over time can offer an alternative.
to the rocky iii meets mr t and mike tyson ringsports americana gateway produced based nostalgia of wwf.
Art Barr
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