Jokic is really about to be a 3peat MVP

[DraymondT]

His playoff career average is higher than his career season average actually

His issues on defense is what get exposed in playoffs.

His playoff career is also against mostly favorable matchups.

Kanter in Portland then Nurkic 2 bad, slow defensive bigs. Rudy always get his shyt pushed in playoffs. Clint Capela got paid for sonnin baguette Biyombo.

He shyt on Clips and Warriors but everyone always knew they had problem with size and big man play. Draymond always got shyt on by real bigs like AD in playoffs. His ass could never guard players that big and skilled.

Ayton and a washed Dwight both put clamps on him. Cac got fouled out or ejected in both those series with how mad he got



Ayton averaged over 60% that series too. We just don't got any elite twoway centers these days besides Embiid who in a different conference. Who else there Bam Adebayo? Jarrett Allen? Baguette Biyombo? Brook Lopez arguably been a top 5 center this season

Good for Jokic he takin advantage of lack of elite centers to matchup and no packed paints or versatile, athletic, nimble, strong real rim protectors. He struggle big time on both ends with someone like Ayton who a prototypical big from back then except without a post game, and Ayton can't sniff the jockstrap of nikkas like of Hakeem, Robinson, Shaq, Ewing and Zo.

He not the first one tho. Dwight the last great center before Jokic and Embiid also benefited from an extremely weak era center crop.

 

[Texas2step]

Hasn't Jokic generally balled out in the playoffs though?

Don't let the points fool you. Last year he averaged -8.8 a game and in 2021 he had a -57 in the +/- category.

He cancel out those points by giving it right back to them with poor defense.

 

[ISO]

His issues on defense is what get exposed in playoffs.

His playoff career is also against mostly favorable matchups.

Kanter in Portland then Nurkic 2 bad, slow defensive bigs. Rudy always get his shyt pushed in playoffs. Clint Capela got paid for sonnin baguette Biyombo.

He shyt on Clips and Warriors but everyone always knew they had problem with size and big man play. Draymond always got shyt on by real bigs like AD in playoffs. His ass could never guard players that big and skilled.

Ayton and a washed Dwight both put clamps on him. Cac got fouled out or ejected in both those series with how mad he got



Ayton averaged over 60% that series too. We just don't got any elite twoway centers these days besides Embiid who in a different conference. Who else there Bam Adebayo? Jarrett Allen? Baguette Biyombo? Brook Lopez arguably been a top 5 center this season

Good for Jokic he takin advantage of lack of elite centers to matchup and no packed paints or versatile, athletic, nimble, strong real rim protectors. He struggle big time on both ends with someone like Ayton who a prototypical big from back then except without a post game, and Ayton can't sniff the jockstrap of nikkas like of Hakeem, Robinson, Shaq, Ewing and Zo.

He not the first one tho. Dwight the last great center before Jokic and Embiid also benefited from an extremely weak era center crop.

Jokic plays in a good era for centers you don’t know what you’re talking about.

U fake ass old heads love listing the same tired names for 90’s centers instead of going down the list and actually naming all the bigs of the era not just a handful of great ones. Also, what post game did David Robinson and Patrick Ewing have that wasn’t their game.

Ayton has a post game. 25.7% of his offense is post ups. U are assuming because he is a modern big he doesn’t have the almighty post game.

Ayton is 55 of 96 (57% FG) on hook shots in half a season. I have Ewing’s shot chart dating back to ‘97 he took just 49 hook shots that season. His offense was mostly jumpers. I have D-Rob’s shot chart from ‘98 he took 56 hook shots.

Bam Adebayo, Brook Lopez, Jarrett Allen these guys you are naming are better than the majority of 90’s centers and in some cases with the offensive philosophies and rules of the past would be more dominant then statistically.

Also, Draymond is one of the best AD defenders and has slowed him down in matchups. A player of AD’s caliber isn’t getting locked up consistently.

 

[DraymondT]

Jokic plays in a good era for centers you don’t know what you’re talking about.

U fake ass old heads love listing the same tired names for 90’s centers instead of going down the list and actually naming all the bigs of the era not just a handful of great ones. Also, what post game did David Robinson and Patrick Ewing have that wasn’t their game.

Ayton has a post game. 25.7% of his offense is post ups. U are assuming because he is a modern big he doesn’t have the almighty post game.

Ayton is 55 of 96 (57% FG) on hook shots in half a season. I have Ewing’s shot chart dating back to ‘97 he took just 49 hook shots that season. His offense was mostly jumpers. I have D-Rob’s shot chart from ‘98 he took 56 hook shots.

Bam Adebayo, Brook Lopez, Jarrett Allen these guys you are naming are better than the majority of 90’s centers and in some cases with the offensive philosophies and rules of the past would be more dominant then statistically.

Also, Draymond is one of the best AD defenders and has slowed him down in matchups. A player of AD’s caliber isn’t getting locked up consistently.

We talkin bout elite centers not about the depth of 2nd or 3rd tier centers. There are deeper talent of centers who can be 3rd or 4th option on contenders now who give a fukk . Jokic and Embiid the only elite centers post Dwight and that's a fact. Elite centers are competin with each other for supremacy, All NBA, MVPs. Not no fukking Jarrett, Bam, Brook lmaoooo WTF whoever can't carry a team like those 5 I mentioned. Rudy was considered the 3rd best center by many before this season and he ain't even better than Mutombo and now after a change in situation been gettin exposed while Deke thrived on many teams.

Ayton only throws those up mainly on mismatch seals that why the postup numbers you lookin up has him in 52 percentile. He don't get the rock on the post and asked to work like an Embiid or Jokic. He still need guards to feed him that why he's not an elite center.

Anthony Davis Stats Against Draymond In Playoffs | StatMuse

Anthony Davis has averaged 26.3 points, 13.7 rebounds and 2.5 assists in 15 games versus Draymond Green in the playoffs in his career.

www.statmuse.com

29/13 on 51% against Draymond in the playoffs. He sure was slowin him down if you actually watched the games you'd know Looney does a better job guarding AD

 

[Dwight Howard]

Jokic plays in a good era for centers you don’t know what you’re talking about.

U fake ass old heads love listing the same tired names for 90’s centers instead of going down the list and actually naming all the bigs of the era not just a handful of great ones. Also, what post game did David Robinson and Patrick Ewing have that wasn’t their game.

Ayton has a post game. 25.7% of his offense is post ups. U are assuming because he is a modern big he doesn’t have the almighty post game.

Ayton is 55 of 96 (57% FG) on hook shots in half a season. I have Ewing’s shot chart dating back to ‘97 he took just 49 hook shots that season. His offense was mostly jumpers. I have D-Rob’s shot chart from ‘98 he took 56 hook shots.

Bam Adebayo, Brook Lopez, Jarrett Allen these guys you are naming are better than the majority of 90’s centers and in some cases with the offensive philosophies and rules of the past would be more dominant then statistically.

Also, Draymond is one of the best AD defenders and has slowed him down in matchups. A player of AD’s caliber isn’t getting locked up consistently.

Delete this garbage ass post you clearly don't know what you're talking about

 

[Joe Sixpack]

Delete this garbage ass post you clearly don't know what you're talking about

Why are you like this?

Are you well?

 

[GoFlipAPack]

I thought I was tripping but I was watching Luka a couple weeks ago and he was carrying his ass off every time he touched the ball.

Stop lettting people carry and travel for a start.

 

[ISO]

Delete this garbage ass post you clearly don't know what you're talking about

Fake ass old head. shyt is FACTS why would I delete it.

What post game did David Robinson and Patrick Ewing have.

Y’all fake ass old heads stay exposing y’all selves calling face up jumpshooting bigs post players.

DEANDRE AYTON in present day in just half a season took more hook shots than Patrick Ewing and David Robinson did in entire seasons.

 

[JoelB]

@Flight @JoelB look at that VORP.

Imma find a way to get his US citizenship revoked...send this cac on a one way trip back to Serbia.

This must stop

 

[Biscayne]

It was literally said all throughout the 2000s that you can’t be MVP if you don’t win 50 plus games. You really do need to tone down the condescending way you talk to people. It’s a message board, and you’re not that important. Unless someone is being a clown then you need to relax. And as always, you leave out key details as if MVP in the 70s was MVP in the 2000s when most people here were coming of age. You literally had people saying it’s a “team award” - including people who won it (i.e. Kobe and LeBron). Kareem won MVP while missing the playoffs when players voted. There are three players in history to have won the MVP award without winning at least 50 games since the media took over the vote in 79-80. Moses Malone did it twice - last in 1982 and then we have had Jokic and WestBrook in recent years.

In other words, an entire generation never saw the media anoint someone as MVP who had not won at least 50 games and for you to pretend that there’s no basis for @Jplaya2023 perspective is just your usual pompous and seemingly googled way of thinking about basketball history. We all lived through that in real time, and the NBA players themselves literally created their own award and gave it to Harden to express their displeasure with how the media had awarded MVP, and every other award.

Joker deserved his awards BTW.

As a Heat fan, I remember arguing with anyone who would hear me, that Wade deserve the MVP in 2009. And for the very reasons you listed, I got shouted down by everyone who said LeBron or Kobe deserved it and that wade(despite of his statistical output and lack of help) didn’t have enough wins to merrit the award over Kobe and Bron. So, you’re not wrong. I always heard the “best player/best team” was the main criteria, until Westbrook changed things with his MVP. Multiple generations have seen the leagues best player and or deserving players put up all time seasonal stats, and get passed over because their team record didn’t match what voters were looking for. For that reason, I see why Jokic getting 3 in a row would be hella controversial. He isn’t the only player in the last 50yrs to drag teams past their expected victory output.

 

[Boonapalist]

As a Heat fan, I remember arguing with anyone who would hear me, that Wade deserve the MVP in 2009. And for the very reasons you listed, I got shouted down by everyone who said LeBron or Kobe deserved it and that wade(despite of his statistical output and lack of help) didn’t have enough wins to merrit the award over Kobe and Bron. So, you’re not wrong. I always heard the “best player/best team” was the main criteria, until Westbrook changed things with his MVP. Multiple generations have seen the leagues best player and or deserving players put up all time seasonal stats, and get passed over because their team record didn’t match what voters were looking for. For that reason, I see why Jokic getting 3 in a row would be hella controversial. He isn’t the only player in the last 50yrs to drag teams past their expected victory output.

That’s not the same thing at all. Lebron’s season statistically was better than Wade’s. It’s one of the greatest of all time.

 

[Biscayne]

It's crazy and hilarious that it has to be emphasized every year that the MVP is a regular season award.

But ppl are using Jokic valiant playoff run without Murray as a reasoning as to why he deserved it last year and can potentially deserve it this year. So which is it? We’ve seen hella players over the last 30-50yrs put up all time great seasons with underwhelming supporting casts, get passed over for MVP because their regular season wins didn’t March what voters wanted out of an MVP. Even players who have dragged their teams to 40+ wins and the playoffs when those teams had no business winning even 25 games.

 

[Biscayne]

That’s not the same thing at all. Lebron’s season statistically was better than Wade’s. It’s one of the greatest of all time.

Wades was also one of the greatest seasons of all time. At his position and all time in general. LeBron had the higher win share total(controversial stat in and of its self) but when it came to counting stats, Wade led in almost every statistical category. That was a 16 win team without wade, that ended up winning 47 and becoming a 5th seed(I believe). Even then, this still doesn’t make the argument for Jokic(which was my original point). LeBron had to lead a Cavs team that would’ve won maybe 39 games without him, to to 60+ wins for him to be deserving of an MVP. His statistical output that season isn’t what got Bron the MVP, since he’s had better seasons or season that were on par with 2009 where he was passed over.

 

[Biscayne]

I think it's all nonsensical. My problem though is that after back to back MVPs it was basically determined coming into the season that Giannis had little to no chance at a third MVP due to his playoff flameouts. Yet now that it comes to Jokic that's no longer a problem.

The other problem is MVPs were rarely given out to players on teams that weren't dominant during the regular season. Last year was a weird year due to their being no good MVP candidates on the dominant regular season teams. But if Jokic wins again this year that would be 3 straight MVPs without being on a team believed to even be a title contender. I thought Giannis should've won it last year and is one of the frontrunners this year.

Right. I don’t see why this is a controversial take.

 

[Biscayne]

i got JT

Jayson Tatum’s performances against other MVP candidates: 41/7/5 vs. Giannis 25/5/2 -Booker 29/11/1 - Durant 37/13/5 - Dončić 34/8/5 - Jokić 39/3/2 - Morant 35/12/4 - Embiid He won all of these games + number 1 seed in the east best record in the league

If you look at Tatum supporting cast vs Jokic though?

In a weaker conference?

Jokic doesn’t have a sidekick like Jaylen Brown on his squad. That’s a 1-2 punch unlike any other in the NBA. Only Kyrie-KD can compare. And even then, the two way ability of Brown is just as valuable to who Boston is as team, as Kyries offensive ability is to Brooklyn as a team.