They made the finals when west got weaker. Jazz were no trash obviously, but certain things helped them get to the finals:
Kemp got fat
Rockets got old
Lakers were still a young team figuring out.
John Stockton was a lowkey Thug on the Basketball Court
- Thread starter 2legit
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Kemp got fat
Rockets got old
Lakers were still a young team figuring out.
Saysumthinfunnymike
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Ehhh I don't know about that.. the Lakers were stacked in '98 and the Jazz swept them up like they were nothing. It's not their fault the Lakers were mentally weak until Kobe came into his own.
Lakers had prime Shaq, Van Exel, Eddie Jones, Horry, Fox, Elden... and got smoked in 4 straight games.
Every player was 25-years old or older.... except Kobe
Nah, Eddie and Nick were bad in the playoffs when they got swept. Kobe was still figuring out. It was basically Shaq doing his thing and his supporting cast coming up short.
But still, my point is the Sonics, Blazers and Rockets in their prime used to beat prime Jazz. There were better teams than Jazz in the west and they waited for their opportunity.
NYC Rebel
...on the otherside of the pond
Diarrhea 90s.
Saysumthinfunnymike
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This looks like anti-Bulls dynasty posting.. In the 2000s, the Lakers and Spurs were beating the New Jersey Nets for titles
Oh and the 76ers.. aside from Iverson and a couple good defenders the team was garbage
Saysumthinfunnymike
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NYC Rebel
...on the otherside of the pond
Bro… If you know me, you know, I say shyt in real time. I had to sit there and watch the Knicks here in New York. I had nothing to do with the bulls and had everything to do with being a fan of 80s NBA ball in knowing that Quality started going down the toilet.This looks like anti-Bulls dynasty posting.. In the 2000s, the Lakers and Spurs were beating the New Jersey Nets for titles
I called it out in real time. I had zero to do it the balls or me presenting this 24 years later on a message board. I call shyt out in real time the same way I called all star weekend in 1988 a sham in real time.
NYC Rebel
...on the otherside of the pond
The Lakers didnt have Phil, so name dropping players is “ehh.” You go from claiming someone is anti bulls to disregarding their coach changing things for the Lakers.
Either way, the 90s were ass compared to the 80s, so you can argue it al you want but I was stuck in NYC having 90s Knicks fans telling me that bum ass squad was a great team.
That era was lower quality ball
Saysumthinfunnymike
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The Lakers didnt have Phil, so name dropping players is “ehh.” You go from claiming someone is anti bulls to disregarding their coach changing things for the Lakers.
Either way, the 90s were ass compared to the 80s, so you can argue it al you want but I was stuck in NYC having 90s Knicks fans telling me that bum ass squad was a great team.
That era was lower quality ball
NBA is where I put the least amount of credit on coaching... Not saying it doesn't matter at all but I'll just go with my own squad.. is Joe Mazzulla a better coach now than Ime because the Celts won the title? To me that's bogus... it doesn't necessarily mean that
I try not to get stuck on narratives because one season went a certain way with a different roster...
The Lakers won not just because Phil got there but more so because Kobe became another top 5 player in the league to pair with Shaq and role players.
But back to the '98 squad... they were absolutely stacked and Shaq had already been to the finals and he had already been the best player on a team that beat the Bulls. The Jazz smoked them. Saying any different or making excuses for the Lakers just sounds like pure Jazz hate..
The Malone-Stockton Jazz had complete stability for a decade together from 1985-1995, and during that time they were a horrible 6-10 in playoff series. They lost in the 1st round 6 times, only made the WCF twice, and didn't make the Finals once in their first decade together.
They weren't even losing to good seeds for the most part. They lost to the 4-seed Mavs in the first round '86, got upset by the 5-seed Warriors in the first round '87, got upset swept by the 7-seed Warriors in the first round '89, got upset by 5-seed Mavs in the first round '90, lost to 3-seed Sonics in the first round '93, upset by 6-seed Rockets in the first round '95, even got taken to Game 7 after blowing a 3-0 lead against the 8-seed Nuggets in '94.
That's embarassing for what was a LOADED team. How you have two HOFers who are supposedly among the best-ever at their positions with a HOF coach and a solid supporting cast and yet you're losing in the first round every year? Karl Malone was already 22 and Stockton was 23 when they came together, they joined a squad coming off a WCSF appearance that had Adrian Dantley, Thurl Bailey, Rickey Green, and Mark Eaton. Adrian Dantley left after a year, but that team always had very good swingmen (first Thurl Bailey and Darrell Griffith, then Jeff Malone, then Jeff Hornacek) along with a DPOY at center in Mark Eaton and a deep bench, plus Jerry Sloan came in 1989 and they had coaching consistency from a HOF coach for a decade. And all they did was LOSE.
Jazz finally made the Finals in 1997, but that wasn't because they got better after a decade of fukking up in the playoffs, it was because everyone else aged out and the Western Conference got weak as hell for a couple years. Once Duncan came in and Kobe grew up with Phil it was all over for them again.
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Meh, beating the '98 Lakers with Eddie Jones as their #2 and Del Harris as their coach doesn't say much when 2nd-year Duncan swept an even better Lakers squad the next year in '99.
And getting Phil Jackson as coach was a bigger deal than you're making it out to be. Kobe wasn't a top-5 player in 2000 and was only a step better than he'd been in 1999, but the Lakers looked far better in the playoffs than they'd looked in '98 or '99.
Saysumthinfunnymike
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Kobe was absolutely an elite player by that point.
He's right tho. They were played dirty. The narrative just enhanced it for certain players over others.
And players like Horry, Reggie, Jordan & Pippen, Oak & Starks, hell, Shaq and his cheapshots, Deke and his TK-bo's, Rodman's pull downs, the Davis Boys...Zeke, Ainge, Chief, Zo, Doc Rivers...
They weren't flagrant like Laimbeer, or Bruce Bowen later on, but they all used elbows, holds and hooks. That's part of physical play. Chest and body were fair game. People just hated the Jazz more. Stockton just played like a big, while most of the other guards played flashy and soft.
Your argument that Kobe was a top-5 player in 2000 is one game where he hit 2 jump shots when they already had the lead?
That's the series he averaged 15-5-4 on 37% shooting, not really the best example for claiming that Kobe needed to be a top-5 player for the Lakers to start winning.
Kobe wasn't even a top-2 player in that particular game (Shaq had 36 and 21, while Reggie put up 35 on just 19 shots), he just came through when it counted that one time.
Saysumthinfunnymike
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Your argument that Kobe was a top-5 player in 2000 is one game where he hit 2 jump shots when they already had the lead?
That's the series he averaged 15-5-4 on 37% shooting, not really the best example for claiming that Kobe needed to be a top-5 player for the Lakers to start winning.
Kobe wasn't even a top-2 player in that particular game (Shaq had 36 and 21, while Reggie put up 35 on just 19 shots), he just came through when it counted that one time.
My "evidence" is Kobe averaged 22.5 on 47% FG on a 67-win team that went on to win the championship with him clearly being the second best player on the team.
Also.... you just want to talk about the Finals, let's talk about the WCF vs. a better team... the Blazers.... where Kobe was 44%/52% with
20. 5
5 REB
6 AST
1.6 Steal
2.1 Block
over the 7 games..
That is top 5