Jennifer Gratz knocks black students' demands

[theworldismine13]

What is ignored in these discussions over and over again is any black student that can get into michigan , UCB, UCLA, caliber of school can get into a much richer private school with aa.

yeah, i dont even agree that its a problem, why exactly is it important that black students go to a public university if they can get into other private schools?

we should try to increase the number of black students, but we should do that for the fuk of it, not to increase diversity or some other liberal mumbo jumbo, we should do it as part of a black economic plan

a lot of people try really hard and dont make into neither the top private or public schools, that is not necessarily a bad thing, that is why for example at UC Irvine its 70% percent asian, its basically all the asians that didnt get into stanford or UC berkely, go to UC irvine, its not the end of the world because uc irvine is still a good school

so the point is the real problem isnt the number if black students getting in, the real problem is the low number of black students that are trying to get in, cuz even if they fail to get in they will be fine at a second tier school

in the UC system, when you count the system as a whole the number of black people graduating has increased after ending AA, which is a good thing

 

[Richard Wright]

yeah, i dont even agree that its a problem, why exactly is it important that black students go to a public university if they can get into other private schools?

we should try to increase the number of black students, but we should do that for the fuk of it, not to increase diversity or some other liberal mumbo jumbo, we should do it as part of a black economic plan

a lot of people try really hard and dont make into neither the top private or public schools, that is not necessarily a bad thing, that is why for example at UC Irvine is 70% percent asian, its basically all the asians that didnt get into stanford or UC berkely, go to UC irvine, its not the end of the world because uc irvine is still a good school

so the point is the real problem isnt the number if black students getting in, the real problem is the low number of black students that are trying to get in, cuz even if they fail to get in they will be fine at a second tier school, in the UC system, when you count the system as a whole the number of black people graduating has increased after ending AA, which is a good thing

I agree 100%.

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

Yes it is. Generally only racist cacs and their acolytes care more about affirmative action than the well-being of minorities. Jennifer Gratz is lionized all over the racist blogosphere. Your liberal naivete is epic. You think this is about fairness when in truth it is about scorn and racism. Soon, like a good liberal slave, you'll be saying there's no such thing as black American. Or maybe you'll contend that affirmative action isn't "humanist". Perhaps you'll say affirmative action should only target socioeconomic class because that's "fairer". And so on and so forth. You should go read the National Review and see how your intellectual honest conservative counterparts make convuluted arguments to justify their culture and ethnic superiority.

I support AA to an extent but the ARGUMENT itself isn't racist.

Learn the difference.

 

[godkiller]

I support AA to an extent but the ARGUMENT itself isn't racist.

Learn the difference.

Distinction without a difference. The argument is motivated by racialist intention and lack of empathy. You should go to Yahoo comments, read deeply the 1000+ comments which foretell black extinction, and think deeply of your values and ideals.

http://ideas.time.com/2013/06/17/affirmative-action-has-helped-white-women-more-than-anyone/

For sure white women have benefited from affirmative action but the black middle class and thereon is basically built on affirmative action. That in and of itself presupposes that affirmative action has helped African Americans to a tremendous degree.

My main problem with stories like this is that by now we as blacks need to realize that whatever pie upper middle class whites and wealthy blacks have does not include a slice for us. The SAT admissions test is culturally biased and one can not even get into a school this good having taken only the classes offered in a poor black neighborhood school.

SAT tests are fine. Wealthy, educated working black people should be the ideal poor black people look towards, not away from. America is what it is because of people who have the skills to thrive in the modern world. Virtually everyone else is replaceable and liable to be replaced. As far as the SAT is concerned, I tend to think it does a good job of evaluating academic ability. Cultural bias is not an excuse when there are people from other countries who score well. It is a test of reasoning and math.

This is why HBCU is so important. We need our own infrastructure and educational system. Instead of asking the government to take action these students could be in communities advocating for education. This is not a problem government will fix for us.

I agree HBCUs should be part of the solution but there's nothing wrong with the government doing its part to help African Americans. Refusing such help is asinine.

 

[godkiller]

yeah, i dont even agree that its a problem, why exactly is it important that black students go to a public university if they can get into other private schools?

we should try to increase the number of black students, but we should do that for the fuk of it, not to increase diversity or some other liberal mumbo jumbo, we should do it as part of a black economic plan

I tend to think diversity in the classrom leads to more tolerant racial attitudes outside of it, which itself is a good for a multicultural society. The other reason I might support the diversity argument is because it's a good argument to get blacks into the classroom, period. Ultimately it doesn't matter how the objective is accomplished, only that it is so.

in the UC system, when you count the system as a whole the number of black people graduating has increased after ending AA, which is a good thing

This is largely a consequence of fewer more qualified black people in the school, and has nothing to do with positive benefits from "ending AA". The people graduating from UC today would graduate regardless of circumstances. The true difference is that there are in fact fewer blacks enrolled in the UC system overall which means fewer graduates. On a net benefit basis, is it better to have fewer more qualified blacks or more less qualified blacks graduating college? I lean towards the latter because it spreads prosperity across a larger net.

 

[theworldismine13]

I tend to think diversity in the classrom leads to more tolerant racial attitudes outside of it, which itself is a good for a multicultural society. The other reason I might support the diversity argument is because it's a good argument to get blacks into the classroom, period. Ultimately it doesn't matter how the objective is accomplished, only that it is so.

i dont think there is anything wrong with diversity, i would prefer a diverse school personally but that isnt some type of holy grail, i dont think the world will end if there are majority white schools or black schools

but i take serious issue with the notion that diversity initiatives by white liberals in academia are key to a black education or economic plan, i think thats bullshyt, and the history of AA has shown that its bullshyt, i think its time to scrap AA and start over

This is largely a consequence of fewer more qualified black people in the school, and has nothing to do with positive benefits from "ending AA". The people graduating from UC today would graduate regardless of circumstances. The true difference is that there are in fact fewer blacks enrolled in the UC system overall which means fewer graduates. On a net benefit basis, is it better to have fewer more qualified blacks or more less qualified blacks graduating college? I lean towards the latter because it spreads prosperity across a larger net.

im not even sure what you are saying to tell you the truth

but like i said, im a UC graduate and i keep tabs in the issue, i know what im talking about, the UC system graduates more blacks today than before with AA, thats just a fact, the increase was due to more blacks going to second tier campuses and yeah i do think that is better than having a few AA beneficiaries at the top campuses

there is nothing wrong with the UC admission system imo or the michigan system, there is something wrong with a black culture that discourages black students from focusing on academics, that cultural problem is what needs to be fixed

 

[godkiller]

i dont think there is anything wrong with diversity, i would prefer a diverse school personally but that isnt some type of holy grail, i dont think the world will end if there are majority white schools or black schools

I never asserted that diversity in schools was a holy grail, only that the diversity argument has 2 justifications, and both are worth supporting for their respective merits. You seem to support one justification and haven't given a reply with respects to the other.

but i take serious issue with the notion that diversity initiatives by white liberals in academia are key to a black education or economic plan, i think thats bullshyt, and the history of AA has shown that its bullshyt, i think its time to scrap AA and start over

I don't think AA should be "scrapped" -- I think it should remain an option and integrated with other initiatives.

im not even sure what you are saying to tell you the truth

but like i said, im a UC graduate and i keep tabs in the issue, i know what im talking about, the UC system graduates more blacks today than before with AA, thats just a fact, the increase was due to more blacks going to second tier campuses and yeah i do think that is better than having a few AA beneficiaries at the top campuses

I'm saying the greater number of blacks graduating from UC is because there are fewer blacks at UC in general. Those blacks that remain are more qualified than the general body of blacks who left UC or weren't admitted as a result of AA's discontinuation. In essence, AA brought more backs into the fold and gave them a chance of graduating. Now that AA isn't being enforced, fewer blacks have this chance. Your so-called "more blacks are graduating" statistic is a phyrric victory.

there is nothing wrong with the UC admission system imo or the michigan system, there is something wrong with a black culture that discourages black students from focusing on academics, that cultural problem is what needs to be fixed

I might agree with this argument if I felt like the general benefit for admitting fewer more qualified black students outweighed the benefit that comes from admitting more less qualified black students. I don't know this to be the case but it doesn't matter now anyway. The Supreme has ruled affirmative action illegal.

 

[Richard Wright]

Distinction without a difference. The argument is motivated by racialist intention and lack of empathy. You should go to Yahoo comments, read deeply the 1000+ comments which foretell black extinction, and think deeply of your values and ideals.



For sure white women have benefited from affirmative action but the black middle class and thereon is basically built on affirmative action. That in and of itself presupposes that affirmative action has helped African Americans to a tremendous degree.



SAT tests are fine. Wealthy, educated working black people should be the ideal poor black people look towards, not away from. America is what it is because of people who have the skills to thrive in the modern world. Virtually everyone else is replaceable and liable to be replaced. As far as the SAT is concerned, I tend to think it does a good job of evaluating academic ability. Cultural bias is not an excuse when there are people from other countries who score well. It is a test of reasoning and math.



I agree HBCUs should be part of the solution but there's nothing wrong with the government doing its part to help African Americans. Refusing such help is asinine.

Youre either delusional or an idiot if you dont think the sat is not culturally biased, and this is coming from someone who scored highly

 

[Richard Wright]

double

 

[BelowTheMasonDixon]

double

How exactly is it culturally biased? Not mocking, just want your opinion.

 

[Richard Wright]

How exactly is it culturally biased? Not mocking, just want your opinion.

Well there is the obvious stuff like if you speak improper english youre penalized for that, even though you can understand concepts and read well. Its more of a question by question basis. This bias does not exist on the math section.


The best example was an analogy question which took coxy(from crew/rowing) as an answer. People from the inner city dont know wtf a coxy is. There are plenty of academic articles on this im no expert. But the smart hood people I know mostly always did worse than the dumb middle class kids.

 

[theworldismine13]

I never asserted that diversity in schools was a holy grail, only that the diversity argument has 2 justifications, and both are worth supporting for their respective merits. You seem to support one justification and haven't given a reply with respects to the other.

i dont think think diversity is an important issue, at least the way its been pushed, when i hear that argument what i hear is that white liberal parents want some color around their kids, which is fine, i think its good if people get exposed to different cultures, but if you dont its not that big of a deal

as far as black students, if you want diversity take your pick, if you want majority black then go to an HBCU, whatever you choose is fine

but either way i just dont think its an important issue, i think as long as you dont have articifial barriers the market will make things work

either as far as increasing black students i said that is a bogus reason

welli guess we agree to disaggree

I'm saying the greater number of blacks graduating from UC is because there are fewer blacks at UC in general.

well lets stop right here, ive read this sentence a few times and i have no idea what it means, why would fewer blacks in general result in a greater number of blacks graduating? that makes no sense

i dont think you understand the UC system, the UC system is 9 separate campuses, with varying degrees of prestige, UCLA and berkely being at the top

what happened when they got rid of AA is that the number of black students at ucla and ucb dropped but the number of blacks students at the other campuses actually ballooned to the point that after getting rid of AA the number of blacks students in the system was greater, capish?

so the greater number of blacks graduating has to do with a greater number of blacks attending the lower campuses, that isnt an assertion, that is just a fact

i wouldnt so much call it a victory because you still have few blacks at the most prestigious campuses , but i just think it proves AA wasnt that great and that black students can succeed without it

 

[Berniewood Hogan]

People from the inner city dont know wtf a coxy is.

I'VE BEEN A CAC FOR SIXTY YEARS AND I'VE NEVER HEARD OF A COXY EITHER, BROTHER!

 

[Richard Wright]

I'VE BEEN A CAC FOR SIXTY YEARS AND I'VE NEVER HEARD OF A COXY EITHER, BROTHER!

Not a damn thing in my post explaining cultural bias mentioned race

 

[Berniewood Hogan]

Not a damn thing in my post explaining cultural bias mentioned race

THIS THREAD IS ABOUT RACE, DUDE! DON'T BE MAD AT HOLLYWOOD FOR TAKING YOUR STATEMENT TO ITS LOGICAL CONCLUSION, MEAN GENE!