I’d rather see that money go towards putting poor black people in trades that will help them make money And be debt free. or put money into public schools and improve them. Private schools can pick and choose who they accept And guess who will have the lowest acceptance rate.
Jay supports $300 M scholarships for Penn teens, critics say he's feeling like a Black Republican
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They are attempting to do something similar in Missouri and my brain deaf neighbor is looking forward to it not understanding how it will hurt kids in the city of St. Louis or kids in north county. she not black so she don’t care.Brehs really believing that the most far-right rich white people in the country suddenly have their best interests at heart because they frame it as "scholarships"?
You have to get yourself educated on what is actually going on:
'This Ain't It': Pennsylvanians Slam Jay-Z's Roc Nation for School Voucher Push | Common Dreams
"An out-of-state billionaire is pairing with a suburban Philadelphia one to try to destroy public education," said one critic.www.commondreams.org
Pennsylvania has one of the most unequal school funding systems in the nation. Democrats in the state have been trying to pass a $5.1 billion bill to radically equalize education funding. Republicans (with some Dem support) are instead spearheading a bill to take $300 million in taxpayer money and move it from poor urban schools to private schools. Literally the exact opposite of equal funding. The window-dressing is to frame it as "scholarships", which will help a select few kids, but the long-term purpose and major impact will be to screw over the 99% of kids who remain in those public schools by decreasing their funding. These same people backing the bill are doing it with the long-term goal of destroying public education altogether.
My post was geared to the fact that there are tons of untapped potential with poorer Black kids..they just need a controlled environment to succeed. Cac kids typically have a controlled environment and it’s much easier for them. Since we are typically less than stable and peers tend to negatively influence star pupils, our stars get lost. I just want these hidden stars to have a chance to shine in a place outside of being a minority in an all white school, man. Like I said if there was a way to establish boarding schools where 5-12 grade Black kids with common interests can concentrate on studies without those negative influences, that would be a start. That will require the kids being “sorted” by ability. Unfortunately, many may be left behind. However we need plumbers, doctors, lawyers, waste management professionals, etc for a strong community. This is how I’d sort folks to establish a baseline. Keep the status quo and watch the decline…watch Black student apathy grow and hopelessness and desperation increase. shyt it’s been happening for awhile. We can see the government gives a shyt about what happens to Black kids based on recent actions so who will the responsibility fall to? We’re just gonna let Black kids not go to school if the don’t want to? It’s getting to the point now where the government won’t give a fuk if your kids don’t go. We don’t have many Black billionaires establishing schools or pooling resources to create schools to help the community. We continue to have out of wedlock kids in piss poor environments which continues to widen the ratio of quality Black families and broken ones. I don’t know man, this is frustrating so see how much lower Black folks are sinking by the year. Drastic measures are needed and yall won’t like it. What’s your solution?
RamsayBolton
Superstar
Clearly republicans have yet another winning way to fukk with black people based on the responses ITT 
Brehs if you are not sure about something or think it's a positive thing for our community, please take a step back and look at who is actually pushing for it. you think a bunch of right wing billionaires would do something that is a win for us in the long run?
I am so sick of this shyt WAKE the fukk UP.
Brehs if you are not sure about something or think it's a positive thing for our community, please take a step back and look at who is actually pushing for it. you think a bunch of right wing billionaires would do something that is a win for us in the long run?
I am so sick of this shyt WAKE the fukk UP.
Over, and over, and over again, "sorting by ability" has proven to have drastically negative results. This is both empirical and logical for those who actually study the subject. I don't know why I have to keep repeating myself here.
Look at the countries that practice the most rigorous sorting, like India. Their entire system is based on sorting and it works HORRIBLE. Their entire education system is trash, in international tests they've landed almost dead last among 80+ participating countries even though they have plenty of resources and a reputation for producing geniuses. The problem is that only a few at the top succeed while the rest get nothing, and those who succeed do everything they can to escape because the poverty and illiteracy left at the bottom is terrible.
Same thing has happened in the USA, and you'd only make it worse. A few Black kids on the top will succeed, but the rest of the community will be so fukked that the achievers will have zero desire to go back. They'll just leave, integrate into white society, and within three generations you'll barely even be able to see their genetics.
YOU are the one who is arguing for keeping the status quo. What you propose is literally the exact shyt that has happened to Black education for the last 60 years. Segregate the most disadvantaged kids in the worst schools, have a few escape occasionally and integrate into white society, and then blame the kids for their situation. Conservative/moderate white people created this situation and conservative/moderate white people are trying to accelerate it by destroying public education. You're literally on their side.
Breh, trying to bring drastic measures to reform education to help the kids in the worst situations is literally my purpose in life. I think a lot of changes need to be made in pedagogy, administration, and teacher recruitment/retainment, but in terms of structural issues, I already answered your question earlier in this thread. We need to push with extreme energy for:
1. Equalizing funding - like Oregon, which passed a bill to eliminate zip code funding based on property taxes and instead fund every school district in the state at the same level.
2. Targeted supplemental funding for places where the kids need more help. Ideally we need to move in the direction of Finland, which pushes equality of outcomes as their main goal, not just equality of funding, and thus gives the greatest targeted help to the schools that are doing the worst. Among other things, this help could come in the form of greater incentives to recruit high-quality teachers to needy schools, greater support for families, parenting, and after-school programs to enrich the kids (similar to what LeBron's "I Promise" school does), and greater counseling and tutoring resources to help kids who come from messed-up family situations or who are academically behind.
3. Serious desegregation (both racial and economic) of school districts which makes both equality of funding and equality of outcomes far more likely because it ensures that parents with power have their kids in the same school as parents without power, so suddenly they have a large vested interest in making the lower-performing schools better. In places with heavy segregation, the low-performing schools are just abandoned because no one with power cares. Also, with desegregation you get a more healthy mix of "students who care" and "students with good parenting" and "students with social connections", etc., so you don't have the social issues that come when you force all the children with deprived upbringings into a single school. Much of the issue wouldn't even be addressed through education, but would instead be addressed through housing reform - we need to desegregate Section 8 and other affordable housing and spread it out throughout each city and state rather than concentrated subsidized housing in particular poor-off neighborhoods.
#1 is relatively simple - several states have already done it and Pennsylvania has a bill before them to do it right now. #2 isn't that tough either, people realize that districts with more problems need more attention, we just need to make education spending a priority. #3 is by far the hardest one, but it's also addressing the very root of the issue. We need to start in the most liberal areas, the black-run city districts and most liberal states, then work out from there. Stop putting every subsidized household into the same schools, stop segregating and tracking kids out, and instead ensure that schools are integrated both economically and ethnically as much as is practically possible within the geographical region.
I'm only addressing the large-scale structural changes needed by government. There's a lot that needs to change in terms of teaching methods and school structure, and a lot that needs to change in terms of individuals and communities. But the structural changes are an essential part of the process.
OperationNumbNutts
Superstar
First of all, that's a long ass post.Y'all are describing the effects, not the causes. Students and parents don't care in those schools BECAUSE they've been cut off from quality education for generations.
China wasn't always known as this "superior culture" that some of y'all make it out to be. In the 1800s, Chinese immigrants in the USA were stereotyped as dirty, uneducated, ignorant, criminally-minded, and primarily working in physical labor, prostitution, and drug dens. Even through the first half of the 1900s, the state of Chinese education in China itself was crap.
Education in China was turned around by the Communist Party, which undertook a massive initiative in the 1960s and 1970s to reach for universal education. In just 30 years, they went from one of the lowest-literacy major countries to one of the highest. Their test scores went through the roof. This was entirely due to a strict policy of high-quality universal public education for every child.
Finland, similarly, was one of the poorest countries in western Europe after World War II. In the 1970s, socialist-minded government began a program of universal education rooted in the policy that every student must attend their neighborhood schools (no selection, no cherry-picking, no private education) and every neighborhood school must provide its students with a high-quality education. By the 1990s, Finland was making a name for itself with the highest PISA scores in the world (the most highly respected international academic testing to compare nations). They did it not by isolating the highest performers, but by integrating them and ensuring opportunity for everyone.
There was nothing special about Chinese culture or Finnish culture, despite the attempts to claim so after the fact. What they had was political leaders with the vision and energy to choose equality and universal education.
America has had the exact opposite. Where does the "culture" come from to care about school? Where do you earn to be a good parent? Where do educational values develop? There are only three choices. They can come from
1) your own family's personal history with education;
2) a strong government initiative; or
3) the influence of the people and institutions around you.
If your family has never had the chance to get educated, if the government isn't prioritizing education in your community, and if everyone around you comes from that same background because you were segregated off, THEN WHAT THE fukk DO YOU EXPECT PEOPLE TO BE LIKE??? Of course they're not going to care about education, everything in their background has conditioned them to exactly that. If they don't have the personal family background to care due to slavery, enforced segregation, and de facto segregation, the we have to make it happen via government policy and integration. There's no other option.
You're literally describing the status quo that already led to the current situation. A few Black kids with support structures are able to get out and enjoy school with the "good kids", a few of the remainder are lucky to get labor jobs, and the rest are fukked. Then the cycle repeats itself every generation.
If that's your goal, you should be happy that America already has the ideal education system for those exact outcomes.
I used to sound exactly like you. Over the years you will learn your perception doesn't fit everyday practices. I said in my post there are systematic problems. Like any problems, they will remain the same if they don't get addressed. Parents not getting involved in their children's education is part of that problem. If they are not doing that, they are not going to school board meetings, pushing local candidates favorable of public education, and demanding school districts to do what they supposed to do. Just hoping they'll get their act together has been a mistake repeated for a long time.OperationNumbNutts
Superstar
It's already there. One is Job Corps for young people and most cities have scholarships in trade programs. The context of this thread is the lottery system in many school districts that help poor kids go to private but mainly charter schools. It's good for the kids but doesn't help the schools they are leaving.
First of all, that's a long ass post.
Imagine thinking our greatest societal issue would be solved in 140 characters.
I've literally been working in education at the ground level for over two decades.
You're still missing the fact that lack of parental involvement is a SYMPTOM of the community's problems, not the cause. It's not like parents just magically didn't want to be involved in education for no reason. We KNOW why education culture got fukked over in the Black community, it was a dynamic created completely intentionally by the White community and it's not just going to go away with imaginary bootstraps.
You're the ones who seem to think parents can just magically get their act together without anything structural changing. I'm the one who keeps pointing out that we need to make major changes SO we can lift up those families that are fukking up and get them on a better track. If you think I'm "just hoping they'll get their act together", then you haven't read a damn thing I've said.
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OperationNumbNutts
Superstar
Like I said, I used to sound just like you. No offense but you are an idealist. Regardless if you call it a symptom or a cause, the way we (blacks) go about things especially in this context is the problem. A black leader nor a politician isn't going to snap their fingers with a Thanos Infinity glove and fix our problems. It's not going to happen. Parents getting involved won't fix everything but it' will be a major step forward.Imagine thinking our greatest societal issue would be solved in 140 characters.
I've literally been working in education at the ground level for over two decades.
You're still missing the fact that lack of parental involvement is a SYMPTOM of our community's problems, not the cause. It's not like parents just magically didn't want to be involved in education for no reason. We KNOW why education culture got fukked over in the Black community, it was a dynamic created completely intentionally by the White community and it's not just going to go away with imaginary bootstraps.
You're the ones who seem to think parents can just magically get their act together without anything structural changing. I'm the one who keeps pointing out that we need to make major changes SO we can lift up those families that are fukking up and get them on a better track. If you think I'm "just hoping they'll get their act together", then you haven't read a damn thing I've said.
In bold, that statement is part of the problem. The thought process of needing structural changes for people to get their act together. That is practically saying people cannot come together and do what's right. Instead, need a magical force that will change minds and people's actions to make things right. In other words, there are more excuses than there are recommendations and solutions.
Yagirlcheatinonus
Icon Poster
Pay attention to their hands in every photo
R.E.N. Spells Ren
Veteran
Brehs really believing that the most far-right rich white people in the country suddenly have their best interests at heart because they frame it as "scholarships"?
You have to get yourself educated on what is actually going on:
'This Ain't It': Pennsylvanians Slam Jay-Z's Roc Nation for School Voucher Push | Common Dreams
"An out-of-state billionaire is pairing with a suburban Philadelphia one to try to destroy public education," said one critic.
Pennsylvania has one of the most unequal school funding systems in the nation. Democrats in the state have been trying to pass a $5.1 billion bill to radically equalize education funding. Republicans (with some Dem support) are instead spearheading a bill to take $300 million in taxpayer money and move it from poor urban schools to private schools. Literally the exact opposite of equal funding. The window-dressing is to frame it as "scholarships", which will help a select few kids, but the long-term purpose and major impact will be to screw over the 99% of kids who remain in those public schools by decreasing their funding. These same people backing the bill are doing it with the long-term goal of destroying public education altogether.
I should’ve clicked the tweet and read the article, didn’t realize this was supporting legislation not funding the $300M themselves. I’ll hold that L
I'm an idealist because I think that structural issues are caused by deficiencies that require structural solutions?
Do you think there's some genetic problem with Black people that makes them inferior? If you do, you don't understand anything about genetics. And if you don't, then you must realize that there is a REASON things have happened this way, and we have to address the CAUSES of those problems before anything can change.
I haven't said anything like that and, once again, if you think I have then you haven't been reading shyt. I get the impression that you haven't really been paying attention to what I've said and are replying to the conversation partner you assume I am rather than actually reading what I write.
So why not try to understand the reasons that parental engagement has lacked? You haven't offered a single diagnosis of the problem or step to address it.
Why the fukk do you keep calling basic cause-and-effect a "magical force"?
I guess in your mind, the entire field of sociology is just made-up bullshyt and people never act in a way for particular reasons. If you believe in science, then you believe that people act in certain ways for certain reasons. Even if you don't believe in science, the Bible itself teaches that people act in certain ways for certain reasons. If you don't address the reasons that people are acting the way they do, then you're not going to have any impact on behavior.
Breh, I'm the one who has been offering extremely specific, thought-out recommendations and solutions this entire thread.
OperationNumbNutts
Superstar
.
@Professor Emeritus I don't know how to split up the quotes here.
It's late and we'll continue this later.
@Professor Emeritus I don't know how to split up the quotes here.
It's late and we'll continue this later.
Y'all are describing the effects, not the causes. Students and parents don't care in those schools BECAUSE they've been cut off from quality education for generations.
China wasn't always known as this "superior culture" that some of y'all make it out to be. In the 1800s, Chinese immigrants in the USA were stereotyped as dirty, uneducated, ignorant, criminally-minded, and primarily working in physical labor, prostitution, and drug dens. Even through the first half of the 1900s, the state of Chinese education in China itself was crap.
Education in China was turned around by the Communist Party, which undertook a massive initiative in the 1960s and 1970s to reach for universal education. In just 30 years, they went from one of the lowest-literacy major countries to one of the highest. Their test scores went through the roof. This was entirely due to a strict policy of high-quality universal public education for every child.
Finland, similarly, was one of the poorest countries in western Europe after World War II. In the 1970s, socialist-minded government began a program of universal education rooted in the policy that every student must attend their neighborhood schools (no selection, no cherry-picking, no private education) and every neighborhood school must provide its students with a high-quality education. By the 1990s, Finland was making a name for itself with the highest PISA scores in the world (the most highly respected international academic testing to compare nations). They did it not by isolating the highest performers, but by integrating them and ensuring opportunity for everyone.
There was nothing special about Chinese culture or Finnish culture, despite the attempts to claim so after the fact. What they had was political leaders with the vision and energy to choose equality and universal education.
America has had the exact opposite. Where does the "culture" come from to care about school? Where do you earn to be a good parent? Where do educational values develop? There are only three choices. They can come from
1) your own family's personal history with education;
2) a strong government initiative; or
3) the influence of the people and institutions around you.
If your family has never had the chance to get educated, if the government isn't prioritizing education in your community, and if everyone around you comes from that same background because you were segregated off, THEN WHAT THE fukk DO YOU EXPECT PEOPLE TO BE LIKE??? Of course they're not going to care about education, everything in their background has conditioned them to exactly that. If they don't have the personal family background to care due to slavery, enforced segregation, and de facto segregation, the we have to make it happen via government policy and integration. There's no other option.
You're literally describing the status quo that already led to the current situation. A few Black kids with support structures are able to get out and enjoy school with the "good kids", a few of the remainder are lucky to get labor jobs, and the rest are fukked. Then the cycle repeats itself every generation.
If that's your goal, you should be happy that America already has the ideal education system for those exact outcomes.
Rep
Piff Perkins
Veteran
Do I support charter schools? No. But we need to be honest about failing black schools and the way we're stacking generations of black children who literally cannot read well into their teenage years, who go to terrible public schools that get state+fed money and nothing changes. See the same shyt happening with the HBCUs which are getting record amounts of money yet have zero to show for it. We're about 5 months away from the annual "[insert hbcu school] doesn't have heat in dorms" winter tweet.
A major problem with liberalism is throwing money at problems while doing nothing to fix it on a systematic, institutional level. There needs to be massive reforms of schools. Which won't happen due to teacher's unions. I support unions but let's be real: teacher's unions do more harm to black people than police unions. They ensure black schools remain fukked while also ensuring (predominantly white and female) teaching and administration staff members keep getting paid government money.
End result is gonna be nothing gets done and we keep marching towards black people being a permanent lower class in this country, relegated to retail and Amazon factories.
A major problem with liberalism is throwing money at problems while doing nothing to fix it on a systematic, institutional level. There needs to be massive reforms of schools. Which won't happen due to teacher's unions. I support unions but let's be real: teacher's unions do more harm to black people than police unions. They ensure black schools remain fukked while also ensuring (predominantly white and female) teaching and administration staff members keep getting paid government money.
End result is gonna be nothing gets done and we keep marching towards black people being a permanent lower class in this country, relegated to retail and Amazon factories.