Essential Japanese Wrestling Discussion/News

[Jmare007]

Yuji Okabayashi & Okami vs Takuya Nomura, Kohei Sato & Fuminori Abe - BJW 7/16/19
Okami

LAST build up tag before the big title match. Up until the last 3 minutes, this was "just" a fun Strong BJ 6 man tag. It started with Nomura working differently than the previous tag matches against Okabayashi, this time the young gawd is trying to avoid getting into a strike exchange and out smart the champion, which actually works out on his favor. But it's a quick sequence, the rest is exactly what you expect from these guys: they get paired up, beat the shyt out of each other, do compelling stuff, rinse and repeat. Loved the little things like Okabayashi getting hyped the fukk up by Kamitani's fighting spirit against Sato, Abe checking on his buddy Nomura after he got fukked up by Okami, or Daichi desperately trying to break free to interfere and break pins.

And THEN, the last 3 minutes happen. If you don't get fired up for Nomura vs Okabayashi after watching that final sequence then you don't have a soul. That was glorious and made a half empty Korakuen feel like it was sold out @Scottie Drippin @SubZeroDegrees

 

[Scottie Drippin]

Yuji Okabayashi & Okami vs Takuya Nomura, Kohei Sato & Fuminori Abe - BJW 7/16/19
Okami

LAST build up tag before the big title match. Up until the last 3 minutes, this was "just" a fun Strong BJ 6 man tag. It started with Nomura working differently than the previous tag matches against Okabayashi, this time the young gawd is trying to avoid getting into a strike exchange and out smart the champion, which actually works out on his favor. But it's a quick sequence, the rest is exactly what you expect from these guys: they get paired up, beat the shyt out of each other, do compelling stuff, rinse and repeat. Loved the little things like Okabayashi getting hyped the fukk up by Kamitani's fighting spirit against Sato, Abe checking on his buddy Nomura after he got fukked up by Okami, or Daichi desperately trying to break free to interfere and break pins.

And THEN, the last 3 minutes happen. If you don't get fired up for Nomura vs Okabayashi after watching that final sequence then you don't have a soul. That was glorious and made a half empty Korakuen feel like it was sold out @Scottie Drippin @SubZeroDegrees

I gotta check this.

Super duper low key Kono/Endo had their best match together by and afar at Peter Pan.

 

[Jmare007]

I gotta check this.

Super duper low key Kono/Endo had their best match together by and afar at Peter Pan.

Have you checked the other tags? It fits very nicely once you put together the whole build up



I saw the runtime of Endo vs Takeshyta and went too damn long for those too. Will see if I can convince myself to watch it.

 

[SubZeroDegrees]

Yuji Okabayashi & Okami vs Takuya Nomura, Kohei Sato & Fuminori Abe - BJW 7/16/19
Okami

LAST build up tag before the big title match. Up until the last 3 minutes, this was "just" a fun Strong BJ 6 man tag. It started with Nomura working differently than the previous tag matches against Okabayashi, this time the young gawd is trying to avoid getting into a strike exchange and out smart the champion, which actually works out on his favor. But it's a quick sequence, the rest is exactly what you expect from these guys: they get paired up, beat the shyt out of each other, do compelling stuff, rinse and repeat. Loved the little things like Okabayashi getting hyped the fukk up by Kamitani's fighting spirit against Sato, Abe checking on his buddy Nomura after he got fukked up by Okami, or Daichi desperately trying to break free to interfere and break pins.

And THEN, the last 3 minutes happen. If you don't get fired up for Nomura vs Okabayashi after watching that final sequence then you don't have a soul. That was glorious and made a half empty Korakuen feel like it was sold out @Scottie Drippin @SubZeroDegrees

Good match, nice sequence to the finish. Young Gawd strike game is I love Abe mannerisms in the ring, does everything with flair.

I gotta check this.

Super duper low key Kono/Endo had their best match together by and afar at Peter Pan.

Everyone raving about this match, I will check it out.

 

[Jmare007]

fukking hell, Nomura vs Okabayashi is not gonna air on SamuraiTV nor in niconico (it seems), so we gotta wait till the show gets to BJW Core and who knows when that's gonna be

 

[Jmare007]

Soo...

*PAC lost the Dream Gate title to Ben-K today at the Kobe World show. Gets more "freedom" for his AEW dates, we'll see how long he lasts without the title though.

*DDT did 1.1k a Korakuen with Takeshyta defending the KO-D belt, a little better than past shows there.

*Sekimoto & Bodyguard won the BJW Tag Titles.

*Stronghearts won their match, of course, and announced they'll be back for the Osaka show in September.

*Okabayashi retained over Nomura (as expected), run time was 21 minutes, I NEED THIS MATCH

Show did great by the way sold out so it should have good atmosphere

 

[TrueEpic08]

Had some time on my hands, so I decided to rewatch Okada/Shibata (which I hadn't seen since news came out about Shibata's hematoma) to see how I still felt about it.

Something I don't think got talked about enough, even though it's at the core of the match's story, are all the Inoki allusions Shibata makes throughout the match. Shibata, and the match itself, is just saturated with the spectre of Inoki and, more importantly, Inokiism. He steals his taunts, apes the famous Inoki/Ali match when he invites Okada down to the mat with him early on, uses the Manjigatame as his last gasp as opposed to the RNC/PK or G2S/PK combos, and on and on. It's as if he's embodying the best and worst of Inoki's legacy in the face of an ace who couldn't be more different from it. And Okada, someone who didn't really live through any of that, just doesn't seem ready at all, not only for how hard he hits or how skilled he was on the mat, but for how much he's really willing to endure for this match.

The Last Inokiist is back not only to claim what was rightfully his, but to show everyone that his way, the old way, was the correct one (it shouldn't be shocking that Shibata wrestles the first 13-14 minutes of this like HE'S the champion, and Okada's the upstart know-nothing challenger). And as much as the Shibata's face post-headbutt is the iconic image everyone takes away from this match, just as significant to me is the image of Shibata standing tall and proud over Okada, who's curled in the fetal position after taking some of the hardest kicks I've seen Shibata ever deliver, completely unable to take any more punishment. Okada wrestled the match as if he was simply just going to magically win, and Shibata just brought his world crashing down around him.

Shibata COULD have won this match at just about any point in the final 5 minutes or so. But just as Inoki and his New Japan's downfall was his pathological need to prove Pro Wrestling's superiority as a martial art (leading to the insane MMA experiments of the 2000s), Shibata's need to prove himself and destroy Okada as opposed to merely beating him ended up being his. Okada gets pragmatic, takes his opening as soon as Shibata shows it, and survives a match that he should have lost by any measure if Shibata cared more about winning than proving himself at his own expense.

People want to call this the greatest NJPW match ever, or even the best match they've ever seen full stop. It's not, it's ludicrous to think so, and those people need to watch more wrestling. But it is a great match, and the match married to the narrative is what makes this so emotionally involving. It would be purely beautiful if it were fiction, because we could just say that the Last Inokiist got too close to the sun, burned himself, and ended his career (and nearly his life) without reference to real consequences. But we know that's not how wrestling works, which perversely adds to how involving this match is.

Shibata wrestled the match of his life. You wish that statement weren't so literal.

 

[Legal]

Had some time on my hands, so I decided to rewatch Okada/Shibata (which I hadn't seen since news came out about Shibata's hematoma) to see how I still felt about it.

Something I don't think got talked about enough, even though it's at the core of the match's story, are all the Inoki allusions Shibata makes throughout the match. Shibata, and the match itself, is just saturated with the spectre of Inoki and, more importantly, Inokiism. He steals his taunts, apes the famous Inoki/Ali match when he invites Okada down to the mat with him early on, uses the Manjigatame as his last gasp as opposed to the RNC/PK or G2S/PK combos, and on and on. It's as if he's embodying the best and worst of Inoki's legacy in the face of an ace who couldn't be more different from it. And Okada, someone who didn't really live through any of that, just doesn't seem ready at all, not only for how hard he hits or how skilled he was on the mat, but for how much he's really willing to endure for this match.

The Last Inokiist is back not only to claim what was rightfully his, but to show everyone that his way, the old way, was the correct one (it shouldn't be shocking that Shibata wrestles the first 13-14 minutes of this like HE'S the champion, and Okada's the upstart know-nothing challenger). And as much as the Shibata's face post-headbutt is the iconic image everyone takes away from this match, just as significant to me is the image of Shibata standing tall and proud over Okada, who's curled in the fetal position after taking some of the hardest kicks I've seen Shibata ever deliver, completely unable to take any more punishment. Okada wrestled the match as if he was simply just going to magically win, and Shibata just brought his world crashing down around him.

Shibata COULD have won this match at just about any point in the final 5 minutes or so. But just as Inoki and his New Japan's downfall was his pathological need to prove Pro Wrestling's superiority as a martial art (leading to the insane MMA experiments of the 2000s), Shibata's need to prove himself and destroy Okada as opposed to merely beating him ended up being his. Okada gets pragmatic, takes his opening as soon as Shibata shows it, and survives a match that he should have lost by any measure if Shibata cared more about winning than proving himself at his own expense.

People want to call this the greatest NJPW match ever, or even the best match they've ever seen full stop. It's not, it's ludicrous to think so, and those people need to watch more wrestling. But it is a great match, and the match married to the narrative is what makes this so emotionally involving. It would be purely beautiful if it were fiction, because we could just say that the Last Inokiist got too close to the sun, burned himself, and ended his career (and nearly his life) without reference to real consequences. But we know that's not how wrestling works, which perversely adds to how involving this match is.

Shibata wrestled the match of his life. You wish that statement weren't so literal.

Excellent writeup, breh.

About this being the best NJPW match and all that:

I think this may be a case where the match's reputation has grown because of the aftermath, and the knowledge that this was effectively a distillation of what Shibata's career and legacy are perceived to be.

Reminds me that I need to watch it again ASAP.

 

[stro]

In the moment watching it I thought it was one of the greatest matches I've ever seen, for sure. Like a generational stand out like Misawa/Jumbo, Austin/Rock at WM 17, Inoki/Great Antonio.

 

[TrueEpic08]

In the moment watching it I thought it was one of the greatest matches I've ever seen, for sure. Like a generational stand out like Misawa/Jumbo, Austin/Rock at WM 17, Inoki/Great Antonio.

I get the sense that what Kenny Omega wanted to accomplish with his matches with Okada is what actually happened with this match: a combination of in-ring work and narrative that elevates your perception of both and makes the match into something transcendent. Thing is, Omega tried to manufacture it, whereas the entire history of the promotion from Naoya Ogawa's debut onward bears on this match (peep Shibata countering the Rainmaker with an Ogawa-style STO for another instance of them playing that up). In a lot of ways, the match makes me think of King's Road as much as it makes me think of Strong Style's ultimate legacy.

I think it's completely fair to call it a generational standout. Few images are going to resonate with NJPW fans of this period than those two I mentioned in my post. But for me the in-ring work by itself doesn't get it there (even though Shibata wrestles a beat-perfect match in basically every respect). The great in-ring work is elevated by the history (that's just wrestling though), and even then I can think of better matches. I'll object to calling it THE BEST, but the list of matches I'll have ahead of it from the 2010s is probably going to be a very short one.

I don't know if I'd call it one of the greatest matches I've ever seen; simply because I need more time to think about it. But it is an absolutely unforgettable match nonetheless.

 

[Jmare007]

Regarding it being a "GOAT match" candidate....I'm with @TrueEpic08 in saying it's not really on that level, but that's not really a knock on the match, it's competing with 60+ years of available footage worldwide and the more you watch (and the older you get), the more difficult is for stuff to get in to the highest of tiers. I do think there's a real argument for Okada/Shibata to be there, I just wouldn't co-sign it.

I would say that my biggest complaint for the match - which doesn't take away from the fact that it is a classic btw, I fukking love this match - is something you mentioned on your review

Okada wrestled the match as if he was simply just going to magically win

Okada DOES magically win the match. His W doesn't feel earned when you put it in the context of the match they had and beating Shibata gave him. If Okada was going to win THAT kind of match, I felt the ending needed a better comeback from him. He basically tried to have a Misawa-like performance, but he didn't have the thing that made Misawa matches so special: slow burned comebacks. I think that Shibata match was the thing that made me realize Okada needed an equalizer/reset move if he wanted to keep having those long ass matches. He got better at using the dropkick as one, but he also stopped working so much from underneath like he was doing in 17'.



The match's place in history is interesting in a lot of ways. I think it's New Japan's match of the decade and there's tons of things that makes it stand out from the rest: the story, the payoff for fans waiting for years (and giving up) to see Shibata challenge for the big title, the incredible atmosphere and how the match was worked. It was long as most of Okada's "epics", but it didn't have nearfalls, it didn't have a ton of finisher spamming, and it didn't have nothing overly complicated (the story was refreshingly simple for a New Japan main event). It's one of the reasons why MiSu vs Tana is right up there as a MOTD contender in NJPW for me, they are so fukking good as matches and feel special because they were so different from what the promotion was doing (and keeps doing).

Now, I'm not sure how the match is seen by the larger western puro fan base, specially the majority that joined in 2012 when the bandwagon finally started to get people to hop on. Is it really treated above Omega/Okada? I honestly have no clue.


Now this made me wonder how a puro "Match of Decade" list would look like for me, this could be a fun project

 

[Apex]

Yuji Okabayashi & Okami vs Takuya Nomura, Kohei Sato & Fuminori Abe - BJW 7/16/19
Okami

LAST build up tag before the big title match. Up until the last 3 minutes, this was "just" a fun Strong BJ 6 man tag. It started with Nomura working differently than the previous tag matches against Okabayashi, this time the young gawd is trying to avoid getting into a strike exchange and out smart the champion, which actually works out on his favor. But it's a quick sequence, the rest is exactly what you expect from these guys: they get paired up, beat the shyt out of each other, do compelling stuff, rinse and repeat. Loved the little things like Okabayashi getting hyped the fukk up by Kamitani's fighting spirit against Sato, Abe checking on his buddy Nomura after he got fukked up by Okami, or Daichi desperately trying to break free to interfere and break pins.

And THEN, the last 3 minutes happen. If you don't get fired up for Nomura vs Okabayashi after watching that final sequence then you don't have a soul. That was glorious and made a half empty Korakuen feel like it was sold out @Scottie Drippin @SubZeroDegrees

just saw it

nomura is def missing something and i think u overrated him putting him in the top 10 right now. he doesnt have that shibata killer instinct

 

[Jmare007]

just saw it

nomura is def missing something and i think u overrated him putting him in the top 10 right now. he doesnt have that shibata killer instinct

Sure, I also think 1 match is not enough to judge anyone but you do you breh

 

[stro]

Regarding it being a "GOAT match" candidate....I'm with @TrueEpic08 in saying it's not really on that level, but that's not really a knock on the match, it's competing with 60+ years of available footage worldwide and the more you watch (and the older you get), the more difficult is for stuff to get in to the highest of tiers. I do think there's a real argument for Okada/Shibata to be there, I just wouldn't co-sign it.

I would say that my biggest complaint for the match - which doesn't take away from the fact that it is a classic btw, I fukking love this match - is something you mentioned on your review


Okada DOES magically win the match. His W doesn't feel earned when you put it in the context of the match they had and beating Shibata gave him. If Okada was going to win THAT kind of match, I felt the ending needed a better comeback from him. He basically tried to have a Misawa-like performance, but he didn't have the thing that made Misawa matches so special: slow burned comebacks. I think that Shibata match was the thing that made me realize Okada needed an equalizer/reset move if he wanted to keep having those long ass matches. He got better at using the dropkick as one, but he also stopped working so much from underneath like he was doing in 17'.



The match's place in history is interesting in a lot of ways. I think it's New Japan's match of the decade and there's tons of things that makes it stand out from the rest: the story, the payoff for fans waiting for years (and giving up) to see Shibata challenge for the big title, the incredible atmosphere and how the match was worked. It was long as most of Okada's "epics", but it didn't have nearfalls, it didn't have a ton of finisher spamming, and it didn't have nothing overly complicated (the story was refreshingly simple for a New Japan main event). It's one of the reasons why MiSu vs Tana is right up there as a MOTD contender in NJPW for me, they are so fukking good as matches and feel special because they were so different from what the promotion was doing (and keeps doing).

Now, I'm not sure how the match is seen by the larger western puro fan base, specially the majority that joined in 2012 when the bandwagon finally started to get people to hop on. Is it really treated above Omega/Okada? I honestly have no clue.


Now this made me wonder how a puro "Match of Decade" list would look like for me, this could be a fun project

Anyone that would put Okada/Omega (any of them) over Okada/Shibata gets the from me for life on any subject

 

[TrueEpic08]

@Jmare007 @stro These people exist, yes, and they are wrong. The mere fact that Okada/Shibata gains with time and historical circumstance, while it becomes easier and easier to pick at those Okada/Omega matches (which I still quite like) over time proves it.