Essential Japanese Wrestling Discussion/News

Drones

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You think Okada over Naito wasn't boring nor unnecessary?
Correct. I prefer Naito as a chasing antihero underdog and the fact that everyone, myself included just KNEW Naito was gonna win made it an interesting swerve for me to experience. He had the match won as Señor Tranquilo, but he couldn't kill that last bit of the Stardust Virgin and it cost him his moment. To me that's beautiful storytelling and I want to see what happens next. Can't speak for anyone else on that.
 

stro

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Correct. I prefer Naito as a chasing antihero underdog and the fact that everyone, myself included just KNEW Naito was gonna win made it an interesting swerve for me to experience. He had the match won as Señor Tranquilo, but he couldn't kill that last bit of the Stardust Virgin and it cost him his moment. To me that's beautiful storytelling and I want to see what happens next. Can't speak for anyone else on that.

But...Naito has been chasing for like...8 years. At the antihero going on 3.
 

Drones

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But...Naito has been chasing for like...8 years. At the antihero going on 3.
I mean, aight, he's been waiting since he started going to 1/4 shows in the 90s to win a Tokyo Dome main event. In the meantime he's become the most over wrestler in Japan and a merch machine, he's won almost every title in the company including the top title, and won two G1 Climaxes. Hell of a fukking career even without a Tokyo Dome main event victory. And I personally don't mind that it hasn't happened yet.
 

stro

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I mean, aight, he's been waiting since he started going to 1/4 shows in the 90s to win a Tokyo Dome main event. In the meantime he's become the most over wrestler in Japan and a merch machine, he's won almost every title in the company including the top title, and won two G1 Climaxes. Hell of a fukking career even without a Tokyo Dome main event victory. And I personally don't mind that it hasn't happened yet.

Yeah, he's the most over wrestler in Japan and a merch machine, in his prime and not getting younger, why wouldn't you put him over on the biggest show of the year when the entire past TWO YEARS was for him to win and be an even bigger star and bigger merch machine? He's 5 or 6 years older than Okada, he's not going to replace him as a long term ace or anything, but to stall him out at his hottest AGAIN (after doing it in 2016 with his one defense title reign that did nothing for him, Okada, or Ishii) is tempting fate to hope he stays this hot for another year (or doesn't get injured). And Okada stays as hot as well, which fans have turned on him multiple times through out 2017 and again against Naito in 2018.

There's no reason to not let Naito run for most or all of the year other than Gedo HAS HIS LONG TERM PLAN which is a rehash of the same angle he's done 3 times already and will end up with Okada back with the belt anyway.
 

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I disagree on both of those counts but aye we all have our opinions and that's gravy.

We are not gonna convince each other that the decision was compelling or boring, but I'm not sure how you would doubt people not understanding the reasoning behind making Okada win when it's been literally said by all of us either in this thread or the WK one :heh:

There's no reason to not let Naito run for most or all of the year other than Gedo HAS HIS LONG TERM PLAN which is a rehash of the same angle he's done 3 times already and will end up with Okada back with the belt anyway.

And it fukking sucked 3 years ago with Tana and Okada too :pachaha:

Correct. I prefer Naito as a chasing antihero underdog and the fact that everyone, myself included just KNEW Naito was gonna win made it an interesting swerve for me to experience. He had the match won as Señor Tranquilo, but he couldn't kill that last bit of the Stardust Virgin and it cost him his moment. To me that's beautiful storytelling and I want to see what happens next. Can't speak for anyone else on that.

Unrelated to what we are discussing, just curious at the bolded because I've read that point from other people too. I get that the story was that Naito wasn't ready and that for some reason, after almost 3 years with this gimmick, he just didn't evolve enough to get past Okada. But he went for the Stardust Press two times, neither of which cost him the match, what fukked him over was going for the Destino - the move that gave him the belt against Okada in the first place - twice in a row so he could finally get the pin, like in the G-1 Finals. When people said he lost his Tranquilo personality is it because he went for his finisher twice in a row, the same way Tanahashi and Okada have finished HUGE matches? Or because he tried to go for the SP? I just don't get that narrative, as going for the Stardust Press made sense as nothing else was working, and when he couldn't use it, he went for his "Tranquilo finisher" and it didn't work either.

So I'm kinda lost of why some people think the story was him "not being Tranquilo the whole match" instead of him just not having enough to get past the Ace. Like, what would the "right" storytelling be - following the first scenario - for when he gets the belt? If two Destinos in a row isn't being Tranquilo enough, or going for the Stardust Press is going back to his old gimmick (I've seen that point being made I think by Chris Carlton), then does he need to debut something new to fit the "not Tranquilo ehough" storytelling scenario?
 
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Beautiful Bobby Eatin

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We are not gonna convince each other that the decision was compelling or boring, but I'm not sure how you would doubt people not understanding the reasoning behind making Okada win when it's been literally said by all of us either in this thread or the WK one :heh:



And it fukking sucked 3 years ago with Tana and Okada too :pachaha:



Unrelated to what we are discussing, just curious at the bolded because I've read that point from other people too. I get that the story was that Naito wasn't ready and that for some reason, after almost 3 years with this gimmick, he just didn't evolve enough to get past Okada. But he went for the Stardust Press two times, neither of which cost him the match, what fukked him over was going for the Destino - the move that gave him the belt against Okada in the first place - twice in a row so he could finally get the pin, like in the G-1 Finals. When people said he lost his Tranquilo personality is it because he went for his finisher twice in a row, the same way Tanahashi and Okada have finished HUGE matches? Or because he tried to go for the SP? I just don't get that narrative, as going for the Stardust Press made sense as nothing else was working, and when he couldn't use it, he went for his "Tranquilo finisher" and it didn't work either.

So I'm kinda lost of why some people think the story was him "not being Tranquilo the whole match" instead of him just not having enough to get past the Ace. Like, what would the "right" storytelling be - following the first scenario - for when he gets the belt? If two Destinos in a row isn't being Tranquilo enough, or going for the Stardust Press is going back to his old gimmick (I've seen that point being made I think by either Chris Carlton), then does he need to debut something new to fit the "not Tranquilo ehough" storytelling scenario?
That is a weird argument ive seen also. Naito losing his Tranquilo should be the reason he gets BETTER and maybe busts out a new big match finisher rather him being lax would cost him a match against the Ace of the company.

@Drones did you find the Okada 3 year chase compelling also? Because that was panned almost as hard here
 

stro

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We are not gonna convince each other that the decision was compelling or boring, but I'm not sure how you would doubt people not understanding the reasoning behind making Okada win when it's been literally said by all of us either in this thread or the WK one :heh:



And it fukking sucked 3 years ago with Tana and Okada too :pachaha:



Unrelated to what we are discussing, just curious at the bolded because I've read that point from other people too. I get that the story was that Naito wasn't ready and that for some reason, after almost 3 years with this gimmick, he just didn't evolve enough to get past Okada. But he went for the Stardust Press two times, neither of which cost him the match, what fukked him over was going for the Destino - the move that gave him the belt against Okada in the first place - twice in a row so he could finally get the pin, like in the G-1 Finals. When people said he lost his Tranquilo personality is it because he went for his finisher twice in a row, the same way Tanahashi and Okada have finished HUGE matches? Or because he tried to go for the SP? I just don't get that narrative, as going for the Stardust Press made sense as nothing else was working, and when he couldn't use it, he went for his "Tranquilo finisher" and it didn't work either.

So I'm kinda lost of why some people think the story was him "not being Tranquilo the whole match" instead of him just not having enough to get past the Ace. Like, what would the "right" storytelling be - following the first scenario - for when he gets the belt? If two Destinos in a row isn't being Tranquilo enough, or going for the Stardust Press is going back to his old gimmick (I've seen that point being made I think by Chris Carlton), then does he need to debut something new to fit the "not Tranquilo ehough" storytelling scenario?

Nah brah, when Austin went back to the million dollar dream in matches against Bret, Rock, and Angle, he was becoming the Ringmaster again. Duh. :stopitslime:
 

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So DDT is once again using their money for the Judgement show, I guess Peter Pan will become their 2nd priority from now on? :patrice:


DDT “Judgment 2018 ~ DDT 21st Anniversary Show”, 3/25/2018 [Sun] 15:00 @ Ryogoku Kokugikan in Tokyo


(-) Shinjuku Ni-Chome no Junin vs Makai no Junin Special 6 Man Tag Match: Great Muta, X & XX vs. Danshoku Dieno, X & XX
~ Also announced to be competing: Naomichi Marufuji, Daisuke Sekimoto, Jiro “Ikemen” Kuroshio, Shuji Ishikawa, Mike Bailey, Joey Ryan, Colt Cabana & LiLiCo
 

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So DDT is once again using their money for the Judgement show, I guess Peter Pan will become their 2nd priority from now on? :patrice:


DDT “Judgment 2018 ~ DDT 21st Anniversary Show”, 3/25/2018 [Sun] 15:00 @ Ryogoku Kokugikan in Tokyo


(-) Shinjuku Ni-Chome no Junin vs Makai no Junin Special 6 Man Tag Match: Great Muta, X & XX vs. Danshoku Dieno, X & XX
~ Also announced to be competing: Naomichi Marufuji, Daisuke Sekimoto, Jiro “Ikemen” Kuroshio, Shuji Ishikawa, Mike Bailey, Joey Ryan, Colt Cabana & LiLiCo
It's smart. The game is super low key in Japan on the spring until Invasion Attack as NJ is still running the NJ cup in smaller venues. Might as well strike while no one else is.

Very excited to see who Maru is in there with. Hes always so much better outside of NOAH
 

Jmare007

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Dude gonna miss the CC most likely :francis:

And Fujita and Kashin are doing an invasion angle :scust: :scust: :scust: I hope it's a 1 match thing and nothing else.



:merchant: work or not, giving Kasai's crazy ass a knife is never a good idea :whoa:



:mjcry:
 
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stro

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Kendo Kashin? In 2018? In ANY YEAR? :trash:




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Jmare007

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So MiSu is the new IC champ and made the ref stop the match, injury angle for Tana so he finally is getting rest. Probably gonna return for the G-1 and get overworked ASAP though :heh:


Mediocre attendance in Hokaido, though considering MiSu has never drawn shyt for New Japan, it ain't that surprising.


Been reading it was a "less is more" type of match so I might check it out, if it's similar to their 2012 match it should be fukking awesome.
 
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