Essential Japanese Wrestling Discussion/News

Jmare007

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Gedo is THE laziest booker anywhere. For years. It's fascinating how NJ came back to prominence with him booking the same 6 guys in various matches over and over and over and over and over for 5 years.

Tanahashi vs Okada: 9 singles matches 6 years
Tanahashi vs Nakamura: 7 singles matches in 5 years
Tanahashi vs Shibata: 4 times in 3 years
Tanahashi vs AJ: 4 times in 2 years
Tanahashi vs Naito: 10 times in 6 years

Okada vs Naito: 7 times in 4 years
Okada vs Nakamura: 6 times in 6 years
Okada vs AJ: 5 times in under 2 years
Okada vs Goto: 10 times in 6 years

Nakamura vs Goto: 12 times in 5 years
Nakamura vs Naito: 5 times in 2 years


He basically books a Cena/Orton feud every 3 months...with multiple people. And has been doing it for years, yet business blew up and keeps getting hotter. So strange. This shyt isn't even counting the dozens of tag matches.

I wouldn't go that far. Business got better and away from the shytter for New Japan, they've been able to get consistent good crowds but nothing earth shattering. I do agree that is fairly shocking how in 2016 fans keep going to the same damn match and same damn programs that have almost no progression over and over again.

I don't think business is getting hotter either, it's pretty stable but it's not going up. The fact that most promotions still can't draw shyt (except Dragon Gate, but they've always been an exception in puro) and that there are no legit n°2 american promotion makes it seems that New Japan is doing better than they actually are imo.
 

stro

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I wouldn't go that far. Business got better and away from the shytter for New Japan, they've been able to get consistent good crowds but nothing earth shattering. I do agree that is fairly shocking how in 2016 fans keep going to the same damn match and same damn programs that have almost no progression over and over again.

I don't think business is getting hotter either, it's pretty stable but it's not going up. The fact that most promotions still can't draw shyt (except Dragon Gate, but they've always been an exception in puro) and that there are no legit n°2 american promotion makes it seems that New Japan is doing better than they actually are imo.

Well, in comparison to where it was before Gedo took over it is still booming. NJ shows are such a drag for me because the top of the card has been so stale for so long, now I don't like the new guys being added to the upper card like Omega/Elgin, and everything before intermission is a complete waste of time.
 

Silkk

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These bytches really just REFUSE to give us Okada/Shibata:martin:

Meltzer talking about Tanahashi & Naito are the favorites. Bruh.........:francis:
 

Jmare007

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Tanahashi can't win. Okada vs Tanahashi has overstayed it's welcome even to the japanese audience.

Naito would make sense considering the angle they are running with Los Ingobernables but once again it's Gedo running a program to the fukking ground.

fukking Ibushi, this was his for the taking :francis:
 

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NJPW G1 Climax 25 Special Part 2

Finally got around to finishing part 2 of my look at the G1 25, after about a month and a half of putting it off. Over all, I don't think it was as strong as 2014, but it did have some good shyt. AJ and Tanahashi stole the entire tournament, both in their match together and with others.

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3Rivers

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NJPW owner Kidani talks about NJPW going to US & Shinya Aoki
The owner of NJPW Takaaki Kidani got a interview on Weekly Prowrestling Magazine.

He mentioned the possibility of NJPW going to US again.

NJPW held US tour in 2011. And NJPW held joint show with ROH in North America these days.

He is happy about the alliance with ROH now.

But he also wants NJPW go to US by themselves again. He wants to hold a 3,000-4,000 capacity level show in US.

And he also mentioned about Shinya Aoki. He brought him to Dominion at Osaka-Jo Hall.

Kidani is planning the card like Aoki vs Kyle O’Reilly and Aoki & Sakuraba vs reDragon.

He does not want NJPW to be all American style like WWE but wants NJPW to be more variety of fighting. There are high flying, strong style, hard hitting style and even MMA Prowrestling.

That’s why he brought Aoki to NJPW.

How many home in US bought WRESTLE KINGDOM 9 in 2015?
The owner of NJPW Takaaki Kidani mentioned on Weekly Prowrestling Magazine about the number of PPV sell of Wrestle Kingdom 9 in North America.

He said it is “11,000 home” in North America.

He said “NJPW is already global contents for us and TV Asahi”.
 
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I'm disgusted by what AXS TV did with last years G1 Climax tournament. They have been showing a bunch of completely irrelevant matches and skipping some great ones. I mean, they really didn't show Honma vs. Ishii but they showed 2 Kojima matches and 2 Takahashi matches? :martin: They did I think 6-8 episodes covering the tournament and only had 5 must-watch matches (the semifinals, finals, Elgin vs. Ishii, and an early Ibushi match I forget which one)

Not to mention, JR and Barnett have been awful and the sound mixing has been awful. The only match that even remotely captured the energy of the crowd was Ishii vs. Elgin, and zero matches have even come into the realm of capturing the Japanese commentary energy.
 

Honga Ciganesta

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Been dealing with some shyt irl :martin: so haven't been watching wresting, still read the Observer though and thought people might be interested in Meltzer's article this week about Ali vs Inoki

As timing would have it, the death of Muhammad Ali three weeks before the 40th anniversary of the Ali vs. Antonio Inoki fight, combined with a book being released, saw a new perspective for what was generally viewed as a low point of sports when it happened.

On June 26, 1976 (the night before in the U.S. due to the time change) at Tokyo’s Budokan Hall, Ali, the most famous athlete in the world at the time, and Inoki, Japan’s biggest pro wrestling star at a time when pro wrestling was one of the country’s most popular sports, met in a mixed contest.

The idea of champions from wrestling and boxing going at it wasn’t new. In the early part of the 20th century, there were flirtations made, and usually ended once boxers started training with wrestlers and realized how limiting their skill set was in that type of a contest.

Still, during the '20s, there were lots of talks between the camps of Jack Dempsey, the world heavyweight boxing champion at the time and one of the legends of the sport, and Ed “Strangler” Lewis, pro wrestling’s biggest star. Lewis, who in many ways was the forerunner of Hulk Hogan when it came to telling tales, at times talked about the fight being signed, while Dempsey would deny it. But later articles came out detailing negotiations and the match was very seriously talked about at one point.

Many boxing champions, most notably Primo Carnera, a muscular giant who really couldn’t box who was manipulated to the title through questionable means and was later a big draw as a wrestler, and even greats like Joe Louis and Jersey Joe Walcott later did some wrestling. But that was after their boxing careers had ended.

Similarly, there were name pro wrestlers who did boxing matches. Archie Moore, in particular, one of the greatest boxers of all-time, late in his career did matches against Professor Roy Shire, Sterling Dizzy Davis and Iron Mike DiBiase. All were set up by pro wrestling angles. All are also listed in Moore’s career boxing record.

Shire faced Moore on September 8, 1956, in Ogden UT, losing via blood stoppage in the third round of which was almost surely a worked match. It was Moore's 189th career fight and he was an all-time great, 39 years old at the time. Shire, five years younger, had never boxed. Shire and Moore remained close and Shire sometimes used Moore as a special referee on big shows when he promoted wrestling in Northern California in the '60s and '70s.

Moore faced Davis on March 9, 1959, in Odessa, TX, also winning by a third round blood stoppage, in what is also generally considered a worked match. Davis, who by that point was 44 years old, had never boxed and at that time in his career, was considered in absolutely no condition to fight. Davis was a childhood friend of Gorgeous George, who actually came up with some of the gimmick, in particular the somewhat effeminate actions and the fancy looking robes, that George used on national television years after Davis had them as part of his act as a drawing card in Texas and Mexico.

On March 15, 1963, Moore, then 46, just four months after being stopped by 20-year-old rising heavyweight Cassius Clay, who later became Muhammad Ali, fought DiBiase, the adopted father of Ted DiBiase and a former star college football player and All-American heavyweight wrestler.

Newspaper reports of the match, held in Phoenix, indicate reporters went in believing it would be a “pro wrestling” version of a boxing match, and being surprised and saying that it was a very legitimate fight. Still, many who weren’t there naturally would look back historically and point to the coincidence of the same finish, Moore winning via blood stoppage in the third round, as the Shire and Davis fights. DiBiase, who had also never boxed previously, became the answer to the trivia question as to who was “The Mongoose’s” last opponent in his 220 fight career.

In a sense, those matches are important historically as far as boxing goes, because Moore, considered by many boxing experts as among the greatest pound-for-pound fighters in history (the box.rec web site lists him as the greatest of all-time in that category), holds the all-time boxing record with 131 knockouts. But take away those three fights, and his 128 would only tie him for the record with Sam Langford.

Sports Illustrated, in its early days in the early 1950s, ran a piece asking who would win between Rocky Marciano, the heavyweight boxing champion at the time, and Lou Thesz, the pro wrestling world champion. The comments were split, with some feeling that Thesz was a fake and that Marciano would win, and others saying that while pro wrestling may be fake, Thesz was a real wrestler, and in a contest like that, the wrestler would take the boxer down and it would be all over from there.

Still, before that time there were really only two somewhat significant matches of that type, the Pete Sauer (a noted shooter in pro wrestling who was later world champion as Ray Steele) quick win over Kingfish Levinsky in about 30 seconds and the December 2, 1963 mixed fight where 31-year-old Gene LeBell, a two-time national judo champion who was taught by Lou Thesz and Strangler Lewis, won over Milo Savage via choke in the fourth round.

Ali vs. Inoki is a match in which history, because of what happened afterwards with the birth of MMA as a sport and with Ali becoming such a revered personality, has caused the match to be viewed very differently today than it was at the time.

Long considered a joke, it’s now starting to be considered an important piece of combat sports history, even more so with the new book, “Ali vs. Inoki: The Forgotten Fight That Inspired Mixed Martial Arts and Launched Sports Entertainment,” by Josh Gross, which recently came out.

Make no mistake about it, and history may rewrite this forever, but this was always supposed to be a worked pro wrestling match and not a legendary sports contest or the historical predecessor to the birth of a major sport.

New Japan Pro Wrestling in the mid-1970s was in a heated war with All Japan Pro Wrestling for superiority. Both promotions had weekly prime time shows on national television. While the popularity of the sport was not at the level it was during the Rikidozan boom, where matches with the Sharpe Brothers, Lou Thesz and The Destroyer did mind-boggling ratings, Inoki and his All Japan counterpart, Giant Baba, were as big or bigger sports stars at the time in their culture than Tom Brady, Stephen Curry or LeBron James would be today. Even to this day, polls in Japan of the ten most famous sports stars of the 20th century always have Baba, Inoki and Rikidozan listed in the top seven and all three were listed in a poll in 2000 in Japan, which was admittedly ridiculed for being among the 50 most influential people in the world of that century.

Baba, through his connections with the NWA, the dominant group of wrestling promoters at the time, was able to bring in the biggest American wrestling stars. At the time it was the concept of the American stars facing Baba, and his rising star tag team partner, Jumbo Tsuruta, that led to the most interest.

Inoki, blocked from mainstream talent, had to create his own stars, such as his big rival Tiger Jeet Singh, or dream matches with the likes of IWE champion Shozo Kobayashi and Korean legend Kintaro Oki.

One of the most famous aspects of the war was after Inoki did a legendary 60:00 draw with Billy Robinson in 1975, which many consider the greatest match of the era. Baba then contacted Robinson and offered him the biggest contract up to that point in time in pro wrestling history to jump sides. However, Baba didn’t use that deal to build Robinson. Robinson had never lost via pinfall in a singles match in Japan and was a household name prior to the Inoki match from his late '60s run with the IWE as world champion. Instead, Baba, who, unlike Inoki, always put business before ego, insisted that Robinson lose cleanly to him, losing two of three falls, in their first meeting. Many have second-guessed that decision, not the idea that Baba had an ego like Inoki, but because Baba felt it was important for All Japan to show he was the superior wrestler to Inoki. A decade later, things were different. When Baba signed Stan Hansen, who was Inoki’s big rival, even though Hansen had lost to Inoki, Baba protected Hansen and Hansen became to be generally considered as the biggest American star in Japanese wrestling history.

When Inoki signed Bruiser Brody, who was, with Hansen, one of Baba’s two biggest stars and who Baba at the time avoided beating, it was Inoki’s insistence on getting the first win over Brody (which Brody refused to do, always saying for business that he should get the first win and Inoki should win the rematch), which led to that relationship falling apart.

Inoki & Baba started together, with Oki, as the three people Rikidozan picked to follow him as the biggest stars in wrestling. Inoki and Baba both debuted on September 30, 1960. They wrestled many times when both were starting out. Baba won every one of those matches.
 
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