LOL at this entire thread turning into a semantics debate about whether or not Peyton is literally an OC
It's never been about Peyton vs. Brady...It's BEEN about Manning the OC vs. Bill Belichek the DC
- Thread starter NYC Rebel
- Start date
NYC Rebel
...on the otherside of the pond
Is all dudes have left. LOL.
And Brady without Beli is a guy who lost his job to a freshman and got passed on by every team in the league multiple times in the draft.Not shytting on Brady by any means but nikkas always wanna talk about how Beli fared without Brady (as and HC i might add, nikka won two rings as the head of some great defenses) as if this nikka Brady has accomplished anything of note without Beli. Brady was the perfect QB for Beli and Beli was the perfect coach for Brady. No need to try to discredit one or the other.
Did Beli throw those 50 TD passes in 07? And how is Beli helping Brady on Offense?
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The fallacy of this thread is based on the idea that Peyton, the OC is matching up against Beli the DC. Why wouldn't the debunking of Peyton being the OC be a main counterpoint?
Peyton being the OC is misleading, much like when people used to say Ray Lewis ran the Baltimore defense like he was a DC
It's a talking point that a lazy analyst spit out there for the casual fan
NYC Rebel
...on the otherside of the pond
It isn't misleading. I gave clear reasons from how he differs from every qb in the league. He's his own OCThe fallacy of this thread is based on the idea that Peyton, the OC is matching up against Beli the DC. Why wouldn't the debunking of Peyton being the OC be a main counterpoint?
Peyton being the OC is misleading, much like when people used to say Ray Lewis ran the Baltimore defense like he was a DC
It's a talking point that a lazy analyst spit out there for the casual fan
I brought it up to prove a quick point that Beli doesn't have a perfect track record against HOF QBs like you were implying. I'm not going to sit here an argue some hypothetical situation
What OC in the right mind is going to openly say they're there to assist Peyton when they have their own futures to work on? We read Peyton being credited for calling his own plays harkening back to the days of past qbs that did the same thing...where even Tom Moore Admits that Peyton could admit that Peyton can call what he wants. Let's take the word of the newbie OC trying to make a name for himself.
Its funny you should bring up Tom Moore. If we're not going to take the word of the newbie OC then surely we should take the word of Moores's when he speaks about how he let Peyton change what he used to call. Key words - changed what was called. Not that Manning just comes up with the plays on his own, but that he's allowed to change what is called.
Until QBs start punching time cards, its stupid to say who puts in more time. For all the examples you gave I could give examples about Brady. Brady meets with Beli on Mondays to watch film. Spends his Tuesdays (Pats off day) exclusively meeting with the WRs to watch film, no coaches involved...just Brady and the receivers.
Ask yourself why the fukk you're even talking bout Moreno right now
your arguments are all over the place. its like a ghostface verse in herelol @ moreno being some scrub anyways. 1st RB taken in his class. averaging 4.8 yds a carry before tearing an acl = not doing shyt to you?
so you think putting in a lot of time = being an OC?
Ask yourself is it Manning the QB who sucks against Beli or "Manning the OC" who sucks? Is Manning the OC not calling the right plays. Is he not subbing the right offensive packages on to the field? Is he not developing a good game plan during the week? Are the Xs & Os hes drawing up on the chalkboard not good enough? Is he not doing a good job breaking down film in front of the entire offensive unit during film study? Is he not putting together a good practice schedule and getting the offense ready to face a Beli D? Is he doing a poor job when hes in the draft war room and bringing in the wrong players for his own personal system?
NYC Rebel
...on the otherside of the pond
Who said he was perfect? Point blank, he has a track record of success against good qbs.
Here's the thing....Peyton goes into a game with a gameplan developed with an OC over the course is the week. Yet he's the ONLY qb In The NFL that goes to the LOS with the entire offense at his finger tips to reach for when he wants.
Knowshow had 9 fumbles in three seasons before tearing his knee up and just sniffed his first 1000 yard season after five years in the league. He lost his spot to old ass Willis McGhee before tearing uP his knee. dude is almost cut last year untilUntil QBs start punching time cards, its stupid to say who puts in more time. For all the examples you gave I could give examples about Brady. Brady meets with Beli on Mondays to watch film. Spends his Tuesdays (Pats off day) exclusively meeting with the WRs to watch film, no coaches involved...just Brady and the receivers.[/quotes]
It's obvious that you don't know the structure if an NFL work week. Yeah...I'm pulling rank because I was coached by NFL coaches and still have peeps in the league, ironically, my boy whose a scout for the Pats. There are clear things Peyton does different than any qb in the league. Peyton just started practicing with his receivers last Wednesday after after not working with them for a month due to an ankle injury.
Ask yourself why the fukk you're even talking bout Moreno right now
lol @ moreno being some scrub anyways. 1st RB taken in his class. averaging 4.8 yds a carry before tearing an acl = not doing shyt to you?
This dude was considered one of he leagues biggest draft BUSTS on the verge of being CUT. I'm in record in the old board prior to draft saying "McCoy is the best back in the draft." and you think your little data mining of stats is going to change the fact that dude wasn't garbage?
http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/fee...ps-possible-busts-knowshon-moreno-kyle-wilson
http://www.thefalcoholic.com/2012/5...-may-be-traded-or-released-but-should-we-care
http://broncotalk.net/2012/02/30318/denver-broncos/knowshon-moreno-future-with-broncos/
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/surpri...os-final-roster-cuts-fans-010400890--nfl.html
http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-t...ange-shifting-climate-of-the-nfl-running-back
Have you watched football? He wasn't even the sure starter coming into this season.
Everyone knows he's still a scrub not worth the selection and YOU want to make him out to be or of the leagues better inner a until Peyton saved his ass?
My point was, Peyton makes him.
no...you do. I KNOW crafting a gameplan is the job of an OC.and Peyton is still the only qb in the league that crafts gameplan a with his OC from start to finish...not handed a gameplan on Wednesdays like every other qb in the league.
The rest of this shyt is not worth my time. Any dude that said Knowshon Moreno wasn't a scrub befor Peyton because he did some data mining doesn't know football.
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The people getting into this inane debate about whether or not Manning is an OC are missing the point. This thread would carry the same message if it were titled "it's about manning vs belichick" instead of "its about manning the OC vs Belichick the DC."
Notice in this thread no one is disputing whether or not Bill Belichick is literally a defensive coordinator. Patriots clearly have a defensive coordinator. Obviously Belichick is a defensive minded head coach who probably has a heavy hand in how the Patriot's gameplan/operate on defense but he's not the defensive coordinator.The same premise is true for Manning. Obviously Manning isn't literally an OC. Lets say we conclusively prove Manning isn't an OC, just a QB. Does that make the central point of this thread any more true/untrue?
The hilariously ironic thing is the reason people get so gassed up over Manning being called an OC is because they take it as a slight against other QBs. Mainly Manning's contemporaries like.....Brady! It's really jsut further fueling the Brady vs Manning narrative that this whole thread is trying to GET AWAY FROM. I quoted a couple of posts to show what I mean:
A lot of it is coming down to a desire to demonstrate that Brady does just as much on/off the field as Manning does...when that argument is completely irrelevant to the actual point of the thread. It actually strengthen's OP's argument that people are too caught up in running the QB vs Qb angle to look at things from a different perspective.
Notice in this thread no one is disputing whether or not Bill Belichick is literally a defensive coordinator. Patriots clearly have a defensive coordinator. Obviously Belichick is a defensive minded head coach who probably has a heavy hand in how the Patriot's gameplan/operate on defense but he's not the defensive coordinator.The same premise is true for Manning. Obviously Manning isn't literally an OC. Lets say we conclusively prove Manning isn't an OC, just a QB. Does that make the central point of this thread any more true/untrue?
The hilariously ironic thing is the reason people get so gassed up over Manning being called an OC is because they take it as a slight against other QBs. Mainly Manning's contemporaries like.....Brady! It's really jsut further fueling the Brady vs Manning narrative that this whole thread is trying to GET AWAY FROM. I quoted a couple of posts to show what I mean:
A lot of it is coming down to a desire to demonstrate that Brady does just as much on/off the field as Manning does...when that argument is completely irrelevant to the actual point of the thread. It actually strengthen's OP's argument that people are too caught up in running the QB vs Qb angle to look at things from a different perspective.
NYC Rebel
...on the otherside of the pond
YOU SEE IT.
TheKang
Habitual, Line Steppa
I could give zero f*cks about a movie in which Jackie Chan did all his own stunts if ultimately the movie sucks
It shouldn't even be a question. He was terrible.
Cats in here pointing out 4.8 YPC like he wasn't a mop up back who made two starts, had more than 10 carries ONCE in 2011 and never ran for 70 yards in a single game.
He was nearly out of a job. In 2012 he was a healthy scratch and the scout team back for like 9 straight weeks.
I don't want to slight what Moreno has done this year, because I believe he is a much improved back. And his ability as a pass catcher and protector are invaluable to this team....but he ain't shyt without Peyton.
If you evaluating the Belichick-Manning rivalry here's one of the most significant moments.
Belichick actually fearing Manning and taking a high risk 4th and 2, instead of punting and relying on his defense/scheme to stop Manning.
Belichick actually fearing Manning and taking a high risk 4th and 2, instead of punting and relying on his defense/scheme to stop Manning.