Isiah Thomas disputes Michael Jordan's GOAT status, says LeBron and Kevin would've dominated on 80s

[Primetime]

Just posting facts. Not taking a side

IF ZONE DEFENSES COME IN, STARS MAY GO OUT



The subject was defense in the NBA, and Michael Jordan was speaking, although more about offense, especially his. We know few defenses could do anything about that.

But there was one that might be bothersome, the zone defense. It was the topic du jour at last month's All-Star Game, and Jordan was making an impassioned plea before the competition committee that had gathered to consider rules changes to enliven the NBA game. Jordan spoke passionately. If teams were able to play zone defenses, he said, he never would have had the career he did.

So now, perhaps the Michael Jordan era finally is over. A select committee on rules recommended last week that the NBA eliminate illegal-defense guidelines, which effectively would allow teams to play any defense, including a zone. The proposals also include a defensive three-second rule to prevent teams from stationing a big center, like Dikembe Mutombo, at the basket all game.

Other recommendations: reducing from 10 seconds to eight seconds the time required for the ball to be advanced to the frontcourt, limiting fouls on incidental contact and allowing the ball to be touched while on the rim, as it is in international play. The league's board of governors is expected to endorse the recommendations in April and put them into use for next season.

But coaches such as Miami's Pat Riley, who long has relied on a two-man post-up game, say times are changing.

"I think the philosophy now is about versatility, quickness, mobility, stretching the game," Riley said. "The philosophy has transcended getting a big man.

"This is the game of the 21st Century."

All stanning, agendas, hate aside what exactly is the argument against a 6'9, 250, top 1% athlete with a top 1% IQ dominating an era without zones where he's as big as if not bigger than most bigs as far as weight? What exactly was the late 80s, early 90s NBA gonna do with a 6'10 guy with an automatic J all the way out to 30 feet who is also as big or bigger than most bigs as far as weight? KD isn't know as an athlete but how many guys during that time were more athletict than him...and how many were 6'10 without shoes? Handchecking would certianly have an impact (see:2005) however it didn't stop inferior players from putting up numbers...go check 6'5, 210, dominant in the post, Adrian Dantley's stats from the 80s and then tell me what Bron or KD wouldn't do.

The hardest part of discussions like these is you are comparing myths to men. We are comparing shyt we saw through rose colored glasses and some shyt many of us didn't even see to shyt we see with all the knowledge, understanding, and bitterness/agendas that come with being an adult. We all grew up on Mike, he was a living legend. Most of us didn't see his struggles or the league prior to his dominance. As kids, we took the likes of the Knicks, Pacers, Suns, Jazz seriously when in reality the likes of the pre-Kawhi Raptors or CP3 Clips were head and shoulders over those teams. I say that to say, Zeke, Lambeer and the other Pistons (or other old heads) didn't view Mike like we do. Not only did they not grow up on "Like Mike" commercials they were kicking his ass...he was little brother to them. No matter what you do, you will always be little brother to a big brother. So they may have kinda the opposite thing going on...difference of course being their basketball knowledge/experience shyts all over ours. That doesn't mean we can't disagree though.

Also there is the fundamental attribution error. Mike's getting his ass kicked by the Pistons and Celtics wasnt' a result of him not having heart or not being a winner, he just didn't have enough help. Conversely the 6 rings was the result of his indomininable will and GOATness and had nothing to do with expansion and having by far the best running mate and coach and amazing injury luck. I understand this thought process all too well, because I used to have it. Mike is better than Bron and KD, as an individual basketball player....he also had it better than them in regards to things outside of his control during his prime. The latter doesn't take away from the former and if you think it does, maybe thou art protesting too much and you aren't as sold on MJ being GOAT as you say.

 

[Buckeye Fever]

I dont even bother with these threads because when you bring up Lebron vs the Mavs in 2011, these bytches act like the Mavs were some juggernaut.


Suck MY dikk.

 

[Remote]

I dont even bother with these threads because when you bring up Lebron vs the Mavs in 2011, these bytches act like the Mavs were some juggernaut.


Suck MY dikk.

Ok man, you can say Lebron didn't live up to his abilities in 2011. That's 100% a fair criticism.

But those Mavs were 57-25 in the West and ran through the conference in the playoffs.
Why is it so hard to give that team their due?

 

[Buckeye Fever]

Ok man, you can say Lebron didn't live up to his abilities in 2011. That's 100% a fair criticism.

But those Mavs were 57-25 in the West and ran through the conference in the playoffs.
Why is it so hard to give that team their due?

Didnt say they werent good.

But Lebron shooting 18 foot fade away jumpers on jj barea?????

 

[Remote]

Didnt say they werent good.

But Lebron shooting 18 foot fade away jumpers on jj barea?????

Aint no defending that.

 

[b. woods]

Those teams weren’t good enough. They didn’t have a second wheel as good as Pip.

The Suns? At the time that was the worst defense to make a Finals. I do know KD and LeBron wouldn’t be buddy buddy with MJ like Barkley was in that series.



Put prime KD on the ‘96 Sonics his organization and tell me MJ who shot 41% in that series is coming out alive?

Put a prime LeBron on the ‘92 Cavs with Mark, Price, Ron Harper, Brad Daugherty, Larry Nance and ‘em. That’s a war in the Eastern Conference.

Let’s put D-Wade on the ‘97 Heat

Harper was not on the 1992 Cavaliers team. He was on the Clippers that season.

 

[Buckeye Fever]

Aint no defending that.

All GOATS go through learning processes. That was his because that was all mental. No way he could physically be stopped.

And I admit, that is the ONLY time I seen Lebron play that passive. He definitely righted the ship.

All these players have had obstacles.

 

[ISO]

Harper was not on the 1992 Cavaliers team. He was on the Clippers that season.

U right let’s go ‘89 Cavs then

 

[Remote]

All GOATS go through learning processes. That was his because that was all mental. No way he could physically be stopped.

And I admit, that is the ONLY time I seen Lebron play that passive. He definitely righted the ship.

All these players have had obstacles.

Candidly, I think Jordan and Lebron probably have opposite routes to greatness.

Both needed help to win.
Let me repeat that. Both needed help to win. Yes, even Jordan wasn't a winner until he finally got help. And last night's episode highlighted that fact when they talked about how under Doug Collins, Jordan was given even more free reign but it wasn't until Phil and Tex got Michael to trust teammates that he actually started to win (...that whole Paxton and Scottie bit)

On the flip side, Lebron on the Cavs was basically what Michael was before he won. Lebron was the only threat but he wasn't enough in Cleveland. He goes to Miami and, at least in that 1st season, he probably was too reliant on his help and it was brutally evident in that Mavs series. Absolutely deserves the hell he got. So he had to learn (or perhaps re-learn) to be more assertive. In the 2011-2012 regular season, he put better numbers across the board. And his playoff numbers that year were way better -- he took more shots, made more shots, had more steals, had more rebounds...and Miami rocks OKC in the finals.

From that point on he runs into a Spurs team that destroyed the Heat as a whole with their ball movement. And then he has those battles with the Warriors teams that...let's be honest...those Warriors teams would wash nearly any team in ANY era.

But greatness is greatness. I wish we could leave it at that.
People are so defensive on their childhood heroes....

 

[Pimp]

Kobe won rings in Lebrons era but Jordan would have problems. People are absolutely retarded

 

[Smoking With Cigarettes]

Draymond would lock wilt up

Are you gonna argue against that all time win %?

Dray been carrying the bay since he was drafted

 

[Greenhornet]

not reading 17 pages of people arguing and crying

but it depends on what teams they are on

obviously Lebron and KD are great

Lebron on Cavs would be terrible
KD on the Sonics may have helped them win that one

Otherwise who cares, alot of dudes dominated the 90s

 

[Remote]

Kobe won rings in Lebrons era but Jordan would have problems. People are absolutely retarded

Why didnt you say it was Kobe's era?

 

[Osmosis]

Just posting facts. Not taking a side

End thread

 

[steph_harden]

MJ was a legit 6'6 with a 6'11 wingspan, 42+ inch vert, and ran a 4.3 40. Point me to a single guard today with similar let alone better measurements all in one... you can't. Casuals talking about how "aThLeTeS hAvE eVoLvEd" and "JoRdAn PlAyEd Vs. PlUmBeRs aNd mAiLmEn" gotta provide receipts for that claim and 20 years into the 21st century they still have yet to do so...

Real talk only Bron the only one you could argue has been overall athleticism....