Yep jusr ignore facts like you always do dumb hoe
"Iso"
"Bron ball"
This is how much of a rockbrain you are -
Like I said in that other thread - take your ass to the bench. Or better yet, go sit your ass in the bleachers.
Is Kyrie's Success in Boston an Indictment on LeBron?
- Thread starter Stick Up Kid
- Start date
This is how much of a rockbrain you are -
Like I said in that other thread - take your ass to the bench. Or better yet, go sit your ass in the bleachers.
I never said LeBron was a "black hole", that he most definitely isn't. But you have to shape your entire game around his, rather than function in an equal-opportunity offense or even play to your own strengths or even develop your own skillset. Kyrie was able to put up those stats because he's ATG 1v1 player, where he can create his shot in every situation; on/off-ball.
It's half the reason why folk thought he was just a one-dimensional player, simply because they couldn't differentiate his skillset/ability AND the role he was playing on those Cavs teams.
As a guard/ball-handler, you'll most probably never build on your own skillset or play multiple roles simply playing next to LeBron, simply because he occupies A LOT of those roles himself.
This is how much of a rockbrain you are -
Like I said in that other thread - take your ass to the bench. Or better yet, go sit your ass in the bleachers.
You're completely right - as I have said repeatedly, Kyrie did way too much iso. That poster didn't know what he was talking about.
This year the Cavs have dropped from #1 in isolation plays to #10, though they're still scoring just as well on the ones they run.
What changed?
Yeah dumb hoe thats a garbage stat.This is how much of a rockbrain you are -
Like I said in that other thread - take your ass to the bench. Or better yet, go sit your ass in the bleachers.
For instance they count anything "not assisted on" i.e the pick and role heavy Cavs offense where Lebron would knock Kyries man off balance allowing Kyrie to get to the basket easy would count as "isolation"
This is further skewed by how the Cavs approached the final minutes of regulation.
During the first three quarters of all seven Finals games last year, only 23.4 percent of LeBron James’s possessions came via an isolation, per Synergy Sports. In the fourth quarter, James’s isolation rate nearly doubled to 42 percent. Irving increased from 26.8 percent to 33.3 percent. Curry went from 17.9 percent to 23.8 percent. In the West finals with the Warriors, Durant leaped from 18.6 percent to 26.9 percent.
Here’s how the iso numbers look this year for key Cavaliers and Warriors players, both in the regular season and in the playoffs:
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For perspective, Irving’s 35.4 percent isolation mark in the fourth quarter is nearly equal to Kobe’s numbers from 2004 through 2007. Curry’s 6.1 percent number from the first through the third quarter would rank 28th of all NBA teams in the regular season, while in the fourth and overtime his 16.7 percent mark would rank first.
As you can s3e, the Cavs numbers are pretty standard until they got into crunch time which is when, as all great teams do, they relied on their superstars to win the game.
Finally
The Cavs score a monstrous 1.19 points per possession when LeBron or Irving isolate this postseason.
Of course its not really isolation, its Lebron setting screens creating mismatches Kyrie was able to easily exploit, something hr doesnt have the benefit this year as to why his numbers are suffering even if a very talented Celtics team is winning
Theres your lesson for the day
That's because he was forced into that role, because the Cavs didn't have a system. LeBron ran the same amount of ISOs that Kyrie did last season. They both had 5.1 ISO possessions a game.
Go figure.
Because LeBron (6th in the league) is the only one on the team that's an elite isolation player. You think that if Wade wasn't in his prime, they wouldn't be right there at the top again? It's half the reason their offense isn't as great as it was last season.This year the Cavs have dropped from #1 in isolation plays to #10, though they're still scoring just as well on the ones they run.
What changed?
The point being that there are choices other than running isolation plays.
If a lower-quality point guard can choose not to run isolation, Kyrie could have too.
And the numbers are deceptive because what they call an "isolation play" for Lebron is completely different than for Kyrie, as many of Lebron's "isolation plays" were still a team action in which Lebron had the threat to pass out. Kyrie often didn't. You can watch replay after replay of Kyie's isos and see open players with their hands out in position waiting for the ball. He still rarely passed out, which is why his shot-to-assist ratio was almost double Lebron's. Even when Lebron scored on an "iso", it was often due to the floor space opened up by his threat to pass. Kyrie was a bigger cause of the lack of ball movement than anyone else on the team.
And the reason the Cavs have a worse offense than last year is because Derrick Rose is nowhere near as good as Kyrie, the Cavs didn't even have a PG for half their games, and JR has been absolutely stinking up the joint. Even so, their offense has still been one of the best in the league. It's the defense that is the problem, just like last year.
So thats the narrative we've landed on?
The Cavs are a horrible franchise. Irving wanting to get away from that is perfectly reasonable. But the shyt you cats keep spewing about CLEs offense and Kyrie/Lebrons role in it is just tiresome.
Please explain how a guard can have a 30 usg% and take 20 shots a game but has little input in how his team plays offensively? I need a detail account of how something like this could happened. Cause it seems almost impossible to have the ball in your hands that often, take that many shots, soak up that many possessions and not be able to shape your teams playing style just a lil bit.
Its great that he gets to evolve in BOS but was NOT "forced" into being just an iso player in CLE. Quit the nonsense.
You don't even know what you're talking about. Kyrie scored 412 points off ISOs last season, sans free throw makes he scored 1,519 points total - that would mean 73% of his field goal production would've been assisted on. We clearly know that's not true, both from the eye test and because the stats show that only 33% of his field goal production was assisted on.
Yes, there's a lot of noise on how Synergy measures their play-type stats (they've actually been more strict and consistent as the years have gone by), but that still doesn't take away from the FACT that the Cavs have always had an ISO-heavy offense. Or more specifically a two-man offense which is relied upon to create most of the team's scoring opportunities -
Irving and LeBron had the ball in their hands for approximately 75%-80% of the time that the starting lineup was on the floor, that is in conflict with the very nature of the Princeton offense, and any "variant" of it. Kyrie and LeBron were responsible for 64% of the team's total assists (the team was only ranked 13th), and they scored 46% of the team's total points. Basically, they were responsible for nearly 80% of the team's total production. That's TWO players who were responsible for nearly 80% of the team's total production.
That percentage was even HIGHER in the postseason.
It's also hilarious how you call that a "garbage stat" yet were referencing the same Synergy base-stats of percentile in your post prior.
EVERY single team's ISO stats are skewed by the final minutes of regulation - the rate in which possessions are counted as ISO is increased for every team. Teams are typically letting their best player(s) primarily handle the ball over that span. The Cavs had 1058 ISO possessions last season, 122 MORE than the 2nd ranked team, and almost DOUBLE the amount of the 16th ranked team (611), you can't use the argument that it's skewed by the "final minutes of regulation" because there's not enough possessions in those minutes which would adjust to a league-medium, while also overlapping with the fact that every team's ISO rate increases over the same period.
Here’s how the iso numbers look this year for key Cavaliers and Warriors players, both in the regular season and in the playoffs:
For perspective, Irving’s 35.4 percent isolation mark in the fourth quarter is nearly equal to Kobe’s numbers from 2004 through 2007. Curry’s 6.1 percent number from the first through the third quarter would rank 28th of all NBA teams in the regular season, while in the fourth and overtime his 16.7 percent mark would rank first.
How dumb are you that you can't see that this goes AGAINST your argument? Both Kyrie and LeBron's ISO frequencies are scattered throughout all quarters, adding claim to the claim that they are a ISO-heavy team based on the fact that it's a constant action for them throughout the entire game, whereas Curry's and Durant's respective rates are much lower over the first three quarters and spike in the 4th - you know when teams typically use more possessions for ISOs.
Even the article that you copied and pasted it from says the exact thing -
"Isolations aren’t something the Dubs do very much, but the play takes on increased importance at the most critical juncture of the game. Defense ramps up in intensity and focus; Golden State’s typical motion offense becomes harder to execute against a brick wall. In these moments, simplifying the game with an isolation can lead to a quality shot. These instances are where the Cavaliers might have an edge, because isolations are what they do best. ".
How stupid do you have to be to quote an article as reference for your argument, when it really goes against it?
Except they're not standard. Look at their frequencies over the first three quarters, in comparison to the Curry/Durant. And that's not the "Cavs" as a team, yes while LeBron and Kyrie make up a large percentage of those players, they still aren't the entire team.
This LeBron stan propaganda is getting out of hand. How the fukk can you rule Kyrie's ISOs simply down to LeBron screens, as if that is the reason why he was as effective as he was, when Synergy's ISO stats are NOT simply down to ONE player's screens creating mismatches? You're really gonna sit there and tell me LeBron's screens are the reason why Kyrie was as great as he was in 1v1 situations?
How many of these isolation plays are from "LeBron's screens" -
LeBron's screens being the reason why Kyrie's good in isolation spots is the most egregious LeBron stan propaganda I've heard yet. Lord have mercy.
Some of his box score averages are down because he's adapting to a new system with new personnel, and he's taking less shots, and his time of possession is down from last season (he controlled the ball for 6.4 minutes last season, whereas he's only controlling the ball for 5.3 minutes this season) not because he's not playing with LeBron anymore.
There's your lesson for the day. Now get your ass back to the bench.
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Exactly. He picks an easy target - yes, Kyrie certainly did run a lot of isolation last year - and then somehow concludes that him running more isolation and having more time of possession last year was Lebron's fault.
Kyrie could have passed more and had less time of possession last year if he'd wanted to.
There is, but here's the thing, Kyrie's role was to put the team in the best possible position of winning, he wasn't playing outside the confines of the system, because there was no system - that meant relying on self-creation because he's arguably the best 1v1 player in the league. There was a reason why he was in the 95th percentile, and no other volume ISO scorer came even close - that includes LeBron.
This doesn't even make any sense. Why would a "lower-quality" point guard run the same amount of ISOs as Kyrie? Like I said, you don't think if Wade was in his prime he wouldn't be ISO'ng it up? Have you even seen him play this season, that's all he practically does, except he's too long in the tooth to execute those plays and ends up getting rid of the ball.
There's still no continuity with the Cavs offense, it's just simply LeBron handling the ball and orchestrating the offense, or players doing their own thing when they get the ball.
at this dishonest bullshyt. JR Smith was "stinking up the joint" this time last season too, and the Cavs had a weaker bench as well. Save your bullshyt excuses. Kyrie was forced into that role because of the lack of offensive structure and actions, and yet his "selfish" play was one of the main reasons why the Cavs offense was ATG. Tell me why is it the Cavs still have the same structured offense and Kyrie is no longer there; folk are still complaining about LeBron holding onto the ball for too long this season, he's even increased his time of possession (6.1 minutes to 7.3 minutes - 10th in the league), whereas Kyrie's on another team and his time of possession has dropped (6.4 minutes to 5.3 minutes - 25th in the league). LeBron's controlling the ball for around two minutes per game more than Kyrie (adjustment for minutes played), and you can't use the excuse of him being without a PG for half the games, because Kyrie has been without his co-offensive anchor/playmaker for the all the games, as well as playing next to less experienced players.
Just like the defensive end, the same problems are still there and Kyrie's no longer on the team, and funnily enough Kyrie is playing the most minutes on the best defensive team in the league. Go figure.
Quite clearly, you're unfairly blaming (and blamed - past tense) him for the Cavs' problems, and not looking closer to home.
We've not landed on shyt. Kyrie was one of the very few players who tried running Blatt's motion-offense, you know the same offense that LeBron wanted no part of. There's a reason why it only took him a few games to fit seamlessly in this Boston offense, and the Cavs are still running the same ole shyt.
What's tiresome is, folk continuing to blame Kyrie for the Cavs problems and he's no longer on the team.
Because he's not the coach nor does he control what offense the team runs.
There's nothing nonsensical about it, there's a reason why he mjpls'd it up with his comments about "craving" a coach like Stevens, because he was "craving" a different type of role. After all his perceived smart dumb commentary over the last 18 months, and his atypical Black personality, you really think he's the type of player to just be content with being one-dimensional?
I said nothing about assisted offense, i said his offensive production the best of his career was based off a pick and role based system
Clearly have no idea what the Cavs offense was based on. A record breaking offense. One of the greatesr of all time. Only beaten by the greatest team ever assembled.
Kyries talents were maximized. He will however never be transcendent. Not a good enough shooter nor passer and not consistent.
Is that why hes shooting worse from the field
But im glad you assign one of the greatest offenses ever created to Lebron.
Bron ball
There's your lesson for the day. Now get your ass back to the bench.
lets see where your ass is in MayExcept it is, not because LeBron is directly telling him to ISO, but because LeBron is allergic to playing in a proper offensive system, which is partly because he doesn't want to sacrifice his own numbers and partly because he can't/won't play off the ball to that degree. Which is why the Cavs offense over the last three seasons has consisted of LeBron and Kyrie taking turns on offense, and not actually having a system in place.
Lebron averaged 70 frontcourt touches (9 in post/elbow/paint), average held the ball 4 seconds and dribbled 3 times, got 18 shots and 9 assists
Kyrie averaged 66 frontcourt touches (3 in post/elbow/paint), average held the ball 5 seconds and dribbled 5 times, got 20 shots and 6 assists
Sorry, but Kyrie's isolation plays were far more "iso" than Lebron's were. He held the ball longer and was far more likely to shoot and less likely to pass.
Yes you can.
