Wilt had 1 early exit out of his 4 MVP seasons. Hakeem didn't. Yes, playing a team much better than you will do that. This is why I said the argument is about skillset not accolades.
Is Karl Malone underrated?
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I've watched 1995 playoff games, he was still a great player in that state.
Bulls problem was their frontcourt got dismantled against Orlando. Getting beat on the boards. Jordan even at 100% may get them through that series but they were not beating that Rockets team which went on a crazy run as a 6th seed.
He lost the First Round to the Hawks in 79 and Sonics in 82. He's MVP and a Wilt/Hakeem-level player, right? This doesn't happen, and 79 was especially bad because he had a squad. That team was also the league's 2nd worst in defense, which was a consistent theme on Moses' Rockets. As an all-time center that's inexcusable.
Both Wilt and Hakeem were on a different planet from Moses defensively. Wilt wasn't perfect but consistently anchored elite defenses, only Russell did better. Hakeem may have been as perfect as a big on defense gets. This alone keeps Moses out of this argument.
Hawks had one less victory than the 47 win Hawks so miss me with that. Murphy and Barry were over 30 so that "he had a squad" would have been a better statement 2 or 3 years earlier. Again not saying he's better but for ANYONE who does think so i wouldn't argue or go back and forth with them unlike what you and i are doing.
It doesn't matter how old they were. Murphy was still dropping 20 a game. Barry dipped in scoring but was averaging 6.5 APG as a wing while still averaging 13. Rudy T 19 & 7 on 51%. 2 more players scoring in double digits. Without Moses that's equal to what the Hawks had, there's no reason the MVP can't win them 2 games out of 3. 2 years earlier Moses wasn't better than Rudy or Calvin let alone an All-NBA/MVP level player. 13 & 13 lets me know his value was rebounding and limited offense.
If you're not exactly saying he's better and can't address him being mediocre in the worst aspect for a center to be mediocre in, defense, there's no argument. So no, we shouldn't be going back and forth. He's not on Wilt or Hakeem's level.
Murphy dropping 20 a night and Barry getting 6.5 assists still led them to what 47 wins? So don't act like that team was some juggernaut. Considering he's a top 30 and probably closer to 20 i would say that he is definitely on their level.
I never said they were a juggernaut. I said he had a squad and as MVP there's no reason he can't take them over the Hawks. And part of only 47 wins is once again the Rockets being a bottom 2 defense, a testament to your MVP center's defensive ability.
If a player is 15 or so spots from another he's not on their level. Especially if they play the same position and thus are expected to deliver similar impact in certain areas of the game. His impact doesn't match his numbers because he was had no impact in the most important facet of the game as a center, especially 40 years ago; he anchored garbage defenses.
He’s rated correctly. A redneck pedo who was a great PF but constantly choked during his prime. And when him and Stockton stopped missing key FT in the playoffs and finally reached the finals they lost to the better team
Again he had a squad with one more victory than the Hawks but you are of the belief that it was some type of upset. And was Moses teams lack of defense solely because of him or the talent around him. I'm guessing when he got to Phily they probably had a decent defense. Again and i will continue to state that Moses is on every center above him level or he wouldn't rate as highly as he does.
He's an MVP an All-Time center with 5 other players scoring in double digits, it's an upset.
No other center that you're comparing him or think he's equal to can get away with consistent bottom of the league defenses. Every center above him is an elite two-way force outside of Russell whose impact and accolades are more than enough (though I don't place him Top 10). It would be one thing if they were average. Every center has also dealt with that, but it at least they had ability that could only carry so far in a team game. But to be bottom of the league every year speaks to his capability and/or effort at his position.
And I'll say until the end of time that a center that doesn't make his teammates on offense nor (especially) defense isn't on the level of those who did.
We're going to have to agree to disagree.
I don't think you took into account that Kobe came off the bench in his first two years, and that he came in at 18...and his era was different.
No matter how many players scored what a game a team with one less victory beating you in a 3 game series aint an upset bruh. 3 MVP's and a ring says that he is on their level despite what you may or may not believe. And we will continue to agree to disagree my brother.
He's not but alright