mastermind
Rest In Power Kobe
for me, if you have him at 17-30, I don't have much beef.
Is Karl Malone underrated?
- Thread starter thatrapsfan
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I notice you dropped Duncan from the conversation completely.
I'm sure that 15ppg on 37% shooting that Kobe pulled in the 2000 Finals couldn't possibly be replicated by John Stockton or Jeff Malone or Jeff Hornacek.
Kobe only averaged 20-21 in the WCSF and WCF that year too.In the 1989 first round, John Stockton averaged 27 and 14 on 51% shooting....and the Jazz still lost to the freaking Chris Mullin Warriors. A team that went down to the Tom Chambers Suns in the very next round.
In the 1990 first round, Thurl Bailey averaged 21ppg on 49% shooting....and the Jazz still lost to the Tom Chambers Suns.
In the 1991 WCSF, Jeff Malone averaged 22ppg on 52% shooting and John Stockton averaged 18ppg on 48% shooting....and the Jazz still lost in 5 to Drexler's Blazers (despite Drexler only averaging 19ppg).
In the 1996 WCF, Jeff Hornacek averaged 20ppg on 49% shooting....and the Malone/Stockton Jazz still lost to the Kemp/Payton Sonics.
I could keep listing several more series like that, but that's FOUR different times with FOUR different teammates that Malone had someone else put up 20+ppg and still lost the series. He had plenty of guys on his teams who could get buckets. Put Hakeem or Shaq or Duncan with that level of talent and they would eat. Malone just don't belong on their tier when push comes to shove. He'd put up his 25-27 and play decent D but he wasn't absolutely dominating on either end when his team needed it like Hakeem or Shaq or Duncan could be.
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Honestly, I've never even thought about that.Imagine Shaq developing chemistry with Stockton feeding him his entire career AND top-5 shooting guards rotating through and saying that team wouldn't win any titles.
Put Shaq on those 97/98 Jazz teams.....shyt
Lmao. Imagine if Shaq played with someone who passed like Stockton, then with a reliable 3 guy on the outside. Sheesh.
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I don't argue facts just to be a contrarian. The difference with me and other mufukkas is if facts are presented I'll capitulate instead of just keep going back and forth to be rightI notice you dropped Duncan from the conversation completely.
I'm sure that 15ppg on 37% shooting that Kobe pulled in the 2000 Finals couldn't possibly be replicated by John Stockton or Jeff Malone or Jeff Hornacek.
In the 1989 first round, John Stockton averaged 27 and 14 on 51% shooting....and the Jazz still lost to the freaking Chris Mullin Warriors. A team that went down to the Tom Chambers Suns in the very next round.
In the 1990 first round, Thurl Bailey averaged 21ppg on 49% shooting....and the Jazz still lost to the Tom Chambers Suns.
In the 1991 WCSF, Jeff Malone averaged 22ppg on 52% shooting and John Stockton averaged 18ppg on 48% shooting....and the Jazz still lost in 5 to Drexler's Blazers (despite Drexler only averaging 19ppg).
In the 1996 WCF, Jeff Hornacek averaged 20ppg on 49% shooting....and the Malone/Stockton Jazz still lost to the Kemp/Payton Sonics.
I could keep listing more, but that's FOUR different times with FOUR different teammates that Malone had someone else put up 20+ppg and still lost the series. He had plenty of guys on his teams who could get buckets. Put Hakeem or Shaq or Duncan with that level of talent and they would eat. Malone just don't belong on their tier when push comes to shove.
...you got me
That's ok, but if you consider most of them bums keep that same energy with the garbage ass era of today. fukking Nikola Vucevic throwing up 20/10 in his sleep
But the GOAT era was when this guy was putting up those same numbers, right?
I'm gonna keep posting that video for a while, it ain't going away anytime soon.
Now compare that shyt to something like this:
11-21 without a single dunk or layup against strong interior defense. He's making runners with both hands, hitting hook shots, setting up in the post and schooling guys, driving the ball in from outside the 3pt line, hitting threes, blocking weak shyt out of bounds, and then hitting the turnaround jumper off the dribble with a minute left that ends up sealing the game.
The idea that anyone can even try to shyt on this era.
Put Vucevic in the 1990s, you'd have Brad Daugherty with better handles and deeper range. And Daugherty was a perennial all-star in his day while Vucevic just barely snuck in once in this one.
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The accolades are there but his skillset doesn't compare to them. His game was centered around his offensive rebounding, and it's widely believed he played to pad his stats. Couldn't pass and was decent at best on D.
And Wilt came up short in the playoffs time and again and Dream won his titles when Jordan retired. Moses had his faults but all those boards weren't padded and he passed good enough to win a ring and make the Hall.
Dream won a title with Jordan retired.
Last I checked, Jordan unretired in 1995 and was on the court in the 1995 NBA Playoffs, basketball shape or not. He was available.
Wilt constantly ran into the Celtics with 7-8 HOF players. It's well documented Hakeem was playing with basically no help. The Rockets also matched up well with the Bulls anyway for whatever reason.
Him winning a ring had nothing to do with becoming a decent passer
Moses also got a First Round exist in 2 of his 3 MVP seasons of we're going to do this.
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Wilt and Dream don't have any early exits bruh? Moses didn't play with some shytty teams in Houston? Wilt had a few Hall of Fame teammates too and regardless his numbers went down a lot during the postseason but i guess that was cause the Celts had 7-8 HOF players though?Wilt constantly ran into the Celtics with 7-8 HOF players. It's well documented Hakeem was playing with basically no help. The Rockets also matched up well with the Bulls anyway for whatever reason.
Him winning a ring had nothing to do with becoming a decent passer
Don't know if you watched the game or were old enough to remember but either way that Jordan in 95 wasn't the real Jordan and we all know it. And it ain't like Dream beat him anyway.
