Is it fair to say that Nas is a better writer than Jay-z but Jay-z is a better rapper than Nas?

[spliz]

Ether has a better hook than Big Pimpin?

Come on breh I know you was in the clubs when that shyt came on and everybody was singing the hook word for word. Nas hook game is very underrated tho

Look at what he had to do with Ether. Look at the beat. nikka managed to make that a catchy diss record that everyone recites. And it used Jay's slogan against him. That hook was genius. Big Pimpin was a crazy hot record when it dropped. But it's not as impactful as Ether.

 

[BmoreGorilla]

Look at what he had to do with Ether. Look at the beat. nikka managed to make that a catchy diss record that everyone recites. And it used Jay's slogan against him. That hook was genius. Big Pimpin was a crazy hot record when it dropped. But it's not as impactful as Ether.

Impact when it comes to this is subjective tho. For example I know the hook to Ether but I’m 99% sure my girl doesn’t. But I know that we both know the hook to Big Pimping. The hook was one of the highlights of the song. When I think about the highlights of Ether tho I think about how he dismantled Jay altogether

Also Jay having UGK on the track was a big deal at the time

 

[spliz]

Impact when it comes to this is subjective tho. For example I know the hook to Ether but I’m 99% sure my girl doesn’t. But I know that we both know the hook to Big Pimping. The hook was one of the highlights of the song. When I think about the highlights of Ether tho I think about how he dismantled Jay altogether

Also Jay having UGK on the track was a big deal at the time

Ionno bro. I don't know anyone over the age of 27 that don't know that Ether hook. Lol. Big Pimpin was a dope party track. Ether was a moment. Both classics.

 

[JYoung24]

Nas is more versatile then Jay too

 

[JYoung24]

this. you can make the argument that nas is a better rapper, but jay-z is a better artist. similar to people who call kanye a top 5 rap artist (which is true)

Jays not a better artist either

 

[JYoung24]

Not gonna lie I think the concept thing can be a detriment. It’s like a movie, you only get away with a twist ending a couple times before audiences are trained to reject your shyt or think it’s lame. One Love and I Gave You Power are classics that reverberate to this day but most of the others are kind of lame. There are a couple on Untitled, including one about fried chicken and another about a roach. Nah. Each one is less poetic than the last and then you get to that werewolf one which is terrible.

To his credit though, Nas is gonna try shyt and take risks because he’s an artist to the core. Sometimes you’re gonna get killed for it, sometimes you’re gonna hit. But the effort is what matters and I think that separates the greats from others. It’s why Prince has mixed or disappointing albums that are better than the entire catalog of a variety of big 80s stars.

Fried chicken and werewolf were fire

 

[Ziggiy]

Just like prince and mj....One is an artist the other an entertainer

Bad comparison

To say Michael Muthafukking Jackson wasn’t an artist is an insult to pop music as a genre. Michael was getting real time props from the likes of Jackie Wilson, Smokey Robinson, and Diana Ross when Prince was in grade school.

 

[Ziggiy]

I don't care who did the hook, the question was who has better ones. I'm gonna go with the guy who has dozens of hits with memorable hits casual fans recognize. No one here would say the Just A Moment hook doesn't count as much because Nas didn't sing that. Nas heard the track, realized it was perfect already, and let it be. Nor would anyone discount Nas' biggest hit, If I Ruled The World, because he didn't do the hook. That's a perfect track, and if Nas had ten more of those he'd really be unstoppable in rap debates lol. shyt would be unfair.

Nas biggest hit is I Can.

But to your point its still an infectious hook

 

[Ziggiy]

Those positions constitute big hit records? Okay, . “Show me what cha got” , that ish was a dud

I was thinking the Alicia joint and the Mariah joint and the Beyoncé shyts…like smash hits

If it breaks the top 30 thats usually considered a hit. Especially for rap in the 90’s.

Top ten is 100% a hit. No matter what you think about a song personally. Show Me What You Got is a hit. I don’t like it either but can’t deny facts

 

[Ziggiy]

This feels like an internet argument to me, because in music it literally doesn't matter where the hook comes from. The goal is to do what's best for the song, which means getting the best hook. If that means Rihanna or Mary J doing the hook, that's what you want. If it means the artist singing it, like Nas often did, so be it. But if Nas sung the If I Ruled The World hook that would be a terrible decision right? The song will damn near tell you what is best, and artists/producers should listen.

Picking hooks is a part of songwriting. If you can do the hook yourself, but realize the song would be better with someone else doing the hook...why would I give you props for making a worse song just to say you did the hook yourself? Not saying that was the case with any Nas hook, but think about Lucifer from the Black Album. If Jay heard that Kanye bridge+hook, said "nah I need to come up with my own shyt" and created some meh hook what would the reaction be? Would he deserve props for doing it himself or would we all say fam you should have taken the Kanye hook. Music is about collaboration! That's why I always hated the J Cole "no features" thing. The goal of an artist should be to make the best shyt, not to arbitrarily handicap yourself for purity. If you realize a track would be better with a feature verse or hook, why wouldn't you go that route? And why would any listener or fan give a shyt?

Cole genuinely thought he was doing the best thing for HIS ART though. How you gonna say the man handicapped himself just because he wanted to create his own shyt for dolo? The man said himself “nikkas ain’t worthy to be on my shyt” and he showed and proved. His biggest charting singles are SOLO singles, there’s not a collab he’s done thats out-charted Middle Child, Work Out, Deja Vu, or KOD. All his albums have went platinum. And the albums where he’s had no features have been more acclaimed than the earlier albums where he utilized features

 

[Pop123]

If it breaks the top 30 thats usually considered a hit. Especially for rap on the 90’s.

Top ten is 100% a hit. No matter what you think about a song personally. Show Me What You Got is a hit. I don’t like it either but can’t deny facts

Aside from me not liking it (ish was trash lol) it just genuinely felt like a dud. , I could be wrong tho. I’m more interested in the 2nd week numbers honestly when it comes to a hit record, like if your joint debuts at #7 then next week it’s number 77, then the 3rd week it’s out of the Hot 100 totally is that a hit record for real? I genuinely don’t know how to gauge this stuff honestly…to me a hit feels like a hit, “Empire State of Mind” was a smash hit. “Crazy in Love” was a smash hit. “Heartbreaker” was a smash hit

 

[Greenhornet]

people aint gonna want to admit it cause stan shyt

but Nas is easily the best overall ... I'm a pac stan but Nas' more creative in total
pac was direct and wrote deeper than anyone easily ... but Nas could approach that plateau, where other emcees cant at all


the only way you can say Jay is a better "rapper" than Nas ... is even you mean by tricking people and personifying one
Illmatic is more hiphop than Jay's career.... the H to the Omo radio freestyle was more hiphop than most shyt Jay ever done
after volume 1-2 Jay did more commercial shyt, than his hiphop roots style
Its not taking anything away from Jay-z at all... but there's just shyt Nas can encompass that 99.9% of emcees cant do. Jay has never been able to successfully do some gutter mobb deep type of shyt either.

the things Nas does that people deem unsuccessful or trite ... would end other people's careers. Its shyt he does for himself or for hiphop and he does not care. Like that song off Lost Tapes 2, the detective voice shyt on hiphop is dead, alot of the experimental shyt on streets disciple etc.... where are they now 80s and 90s remix. Alot of people are doing any of that because they dont take risks or have creativity to just create music

nas the type of dude to smoke with Damien Marley... and Damien is like "want to make a reggae cd" and Nas is just like "yeah sure"
"we're gonna do videos for every track too" nas is like "yeah whatever"

if you listened to the sheer number of actual unreleased nas songs and snippets of shyt that never came out ... he has like 900 songs, some conceptual and amazing that havent even been played to the public. Not many artists in HISTORY are even touching that magnitude of longevity and volume of work

 

[Piff Perkins]

Cole genuinely thought he was doing the best thing for HIS ART though. How you gonna say the man handicapped himself just because he wanted to create his own shyt for dolo? The man said himself “nikkas ain’t worthy to be on my shyt” and he showed and proved. His biggest charting singles are SOLO singles, there’s not a collab he’s done thats out-charted Middle Child, Work Out, Deja Vu, or KOD. All his albums have went platinum. And the albums where he’s had no features have been more acclaimed than the earlier albums where he utilized features

At the time Cole admitted it was moreso about wanting to do it for the achievement, which to me screams that wasn't about art. It was ego. Later Cole also said nobody asked Prince how come MJ isn't on your album, and I agree with. I don't expect Drake or Kendrick to be on a Cole album, or for them to regularly work with any rappers. Personally I think Cole and Drake have projects that would have been better served with actual singers doing some (not all, not most) of the choruses but that's just me.

All those albums were successful, sure.

 

[FunkDoc1112]

nah vol 3 better than i am.

I'd say Vol. 3 and I Am are even, though the album I always parallel I Am to is Vol. 1. Two albums that have both guys' absolute best material and some of their absolute worst.

 

[Renegade47]

I'd say Vol. 3 and I Am are even, though the album I always parallel I Am to is Vol. 1. Two albums that have both guys' absolute best material and some of their absolute worst.

i agree. vol 3 my favorite jay album. i know its overall trash but he was talking some shyt on there