Is it fair to say that Nas is a better writer than Jay-z but Jay-z is a better rapper than Nas?

[spliz]

This is what I don’t get about nikkas you’ll throw the word versatile out there 2 Describe jay like Nas ain’t give u Rewind, Gave You Power, Fetus, Book Of Rhymes, We’re Not Alone, 2nd Childhood etc on top of endless storytelling records i.e. Shootouts, Blaze A 50, & let’s not 4get about the positive records like “I Know I Can & If I Ruled The World”. Nas not having the Radio records shouldn’t negate his versatility.

Exactly. Nas doesn't even have one album that sounds like the last one.

 

[No1]

To me Nas and Jay are number 2-3 best rappers of all-time (Biggie is 1 to me) when it comes to talent.

Who I think is better usually depends on the day. I usually edge peak Nas, just as preference, but both are elite elite lyricist but their strengths are so different lyrically.

Exactly how I feel except I edge them over Biggie but that’s also probably because Biggie had passed by the time I understood bars and it was all retroactive for me. That’s also why I find this these threads to be annoying. It’s like one group feels the need you to to submit and admit the other guy is better. Just look at the thread, it’s basically one group of people arguing their points at the clouds.

 

[Pop123]

Exactly. Nas doesn't even have one album that sounds like the last one.

That’s a fact…I always said the same when talking about his greatness as an artist. Even beyond that, on some albums (Stillmatic for example), no song even sounds the same, every joint has a different concept and direction. Stillmatic should be studied bro, tryna tell y’all, that’s number 2 in the catalog man

 

[Piff Perkins]

I don't think this is a fair take. Nas has some of GOAT hooks and they sung by him. It's all in the what the goal is. A nikka being better at picking hooks and being better at making hooks is 2 different things. Being good at hooks and making hit records aren't synonymous.

This feels like an internet argument to me, because in music it literally doesn't matter where the hook comes from. The goal is to do what's best for the song, which means getting the best hook. If that means Rihanna or Mary J doing the hook, that's what you want. If it means the artist singing it, like Nas often did, so be it. But if Nas sung the If I Ruled The World hook that would be a terrible decision right? The song will damn near tell you what is best, and artists/producers should listen.

Picking hooks is a part of songwriting. If you can do the hook yourself, but realize the song would be better with someone else doing the hook...why would I give you props for making a worse song just to say you did the hook yourself? Not saying that was the case with any Nas hook, but think about Lucifer from the Black Album. If Jay heard that Kanye bridge+hook, said "nah I need to come up with my own shyt" and created some meh hook what would the reaction be? Would he deserve props for doing it himself or would we all say fam you should have taken the Kanye hook. Music is about collaboration! That's why I always hated the J Cole "no features" thing. The goal of an artist should be to make the best shyt, not to arbitrarily handicap yourself for purity. If you realize a track would be better with a feature verse or hook, why wouldn't you go that route? And why would any listener or fan give a shyt?

 

[spliz]

This feels like an internet argument to me, because in music it literally doesn't matter where the hook comes from. The goal is to do what's best for the song, which means getting the best hook. If that means Rihanna or Mary J doing the hook, that's what you want. If it means the artist singing it, like Nas often did, so be it. But if Nas sung the If I Ruled The World hook that would be a terrible decision right? The song will damn near tell you what is best, and artists/producers should listen.

Picking hooks is a part of songwriting. If you can do the hook yourself, but realize the song would be better with someone else doing the hook...why would I give you props for making a worse song just to say you did the hook yourself? Not saying that was the case with any Nas hook, but think about Lucifer from the Black Album. If Jay heard that Kanye bridge+hook, said "nah I need to come up with my own shyt" and created some meh hook what would the reaction be? Would he deserve props for doing it himself or would we all say fam you should have taken the Kanye hook. Music is about collaboration! That's why I always hated the J Cole "no features" thing. The goal of an artist should be to make the best shyt, not to arbitrarily handicap yourself for purity. If you realize a track would be better with a feature verse or hook, why wouldn't you go that route? And why would any listener or fan give a shyt?

shyt who's better at hooks in general is an internet argument if u wanna take it there. But when we on the internet breaking down what someone is better at. We get here. I can't say a nikka better at making hooks just cause he picks some hooks when alotta producers supply the beat with the hook in place in the first place. U wouldn't say a nikka better at making beats just cause he pick dope beats would u? A nikka is a dope hook picker. Same way a nikka can be a dope beat picker. But when it comes to actual hooks. Jay's hooks aren't better than Nas' overall.

 

[JustCKing]

I think people underrated Nas's hooks. His two highest charting solo singles came late in his career. Those songs are "I Can" and "Made You Look". Neither song has a feature. It's all Nas. Those songs came out at the height of the "R&B singer on the hook era".

 

[spliz]

I think people underrated Nas's hooks. His two highest charting solo singles came late in his career. Those songs are "I Can" and "Made You Look". Neither song has a feature. It's all Nas. Those songs came out at the height of the "R&B singer on the hook era".

I would argue some of his greatest songs is just him. shyt. Look at Ether for instance. I Gave You Power. The list goes on. Lol

 

[spliz]

Imma list the dope songs where it's Nas on the hook.
The World Is Yours
Halftime
I Gave You Power
Street Dreams
Suspect
Black Girl Lost
Silent Murder
NYSOM2
We Will Survive
Favor For A Favor
Ghetto Prisoners
Undying Love
Life We Chose
Come Get Me
Shoot Em Up
Last Words
Ether
One Mic
Destroy and Rebuild
What Goes Around(Poison)
Doo Rags
My Way
U Gotta Love It
Nothing Last Forever
No Ideas Original
Everybody's Crazy
Drunk By Myself
Black Zombie
Poppa Was A Playa
The Cross
Made You Look
Last Real nikka Alive
I Can
Book Of Rhymes
Mastermind
Revolutionary Warfare
Quick To Back Down
Twilight
Message To The Feds
These Are Our Heroes
Live Now
You Know My Style
Virgo
Thiefs Theme
Remember The Times
Money Over Bullshyt
Breathe
Sly Fox
Yall My nikkas
Accident Murderers
Daughters
Bye Baby
Trust


We ain't even getting into the Kings Disease series or unreleased shyt like Life Is Like A Dice Game(OG) or Deja Vu. Or other nikkas songs like Gimme Yours.

 

[Piff Perkins]

shyt who's better at hooks in general is an internet argument if u wanna take it there. But when we on the internet breaking down what someone is better at. We get here. I can't say a nikka better at making hooks just cause he picks some hooks when alotta producers supply the beat with the hook in place in the first place. U wouldn't say a nikka better at making beats just cause he pick dope beats would u? A nikka is a dope hook picker. Same way a nikka can be a dope beat picker. But when it comes to actual hooks. Jay's hooks aren't better than Nas' overall.

We're talking about song making right. That includes writing verses and how you rap your verse (flows, pockets, etc). It also includes, to quote Murphy Lee lol, what the hook gonna be. The hook is presumably going to relate to the verses in some way thematically. My entire point is that whether the rapper does the hook himself or not, this is a song making process that the artist deserves credit for. It's his song. What is best for the song? The rappers who constantly make the best decision when it comes to that have the best hooks to me.

Also if we're gonna haggle over this, why don't you also do the same based on who wrote the hook and whether it's an interpolation? Does Nas get docked points because Street Dreams' hook is an interpolation of Sweet Dreams? Does he get knocked points because Gimme Yours is from an I-Level song?


If you're gonna argue rappers shouldn't receive credit for hooks they didn't come up, why should they get credit for hooks they recited from another record lol? I feel like that's a contradiction with your argument whereas with me it doesn't matter: I just care about what's best for the song. If that's Nas singing a hook himself, that he got from another song, so be it. And if it's Nas getting Mary J to do the same hook, there is no difference in my mind. Speaking of Mary J, she had quite a few hooks that were "taken" from other songs. Can't Knock The Hustle for instance. Nobody would dock Mary J for that either.

 

[Grand_Verbalizer]

Imma list the dope songs where it's Nas on the hook.
It Ain't Hard To Tell
......
.......

That might be his greatest hook ever

Oh wait ...

 

[spliz]

We're talking about song making right. That includes writing verses and how you rap your verse (flows, pockets, etc). It also includes, to quote Murphy Lee lol, what the hook gonna be. The hook is presumably going to relate to the verses in some way thematically. My entire point is that whether the rapper does the hook himself or not, this is a song making process that the artist deserves credit for. It's his song. What is best for the song? The rappers who constantly make the best decision when it comes to that have the best hooks to me.

Also if we're gonna haggle over this, why don't you also do the same based on who wrote the hook and whether it's an interpolation? Does Nas get docked points because Street Dreams' hook is an interpolation of Sweet Dreams? Does he get knocked points because Gimme Yours is from an I-Level song?


If you're gonna argue rappers shouldn't receive credit for hooks they didn't come up, why should they get credit for hooks they recited from another record lol? I feel like that's a contradiction with your argument whereas with me it doesn't matter: I just care about what's best for the song. If that's Nas singing a hook himself, that he got from another song, so be it. And if it's Nas getting Mary J to do the same hook, there is no difference in my mind. Speaking of Mary J, she had quite a few hooks that were "taken" from other songs. Can't Knock The Hustle for instance. Nobody would dock Mary J for that either.

Son no. Ur saying Jay Z is better at hooks than Nas and I'm saying no. Ur going all around the world right now. The point I'm making is that it's not as cut and dry as ur making it and u refuse to accept that fact. Jay has some straight up terrible hooks under his belt. The thing I'm telling u is. Some of Nas' greatest songs is just him on the hook. Jay's greatest songs by the majority aren't like that. Not saying Jay is bad at hooks at all. I'm saying that don't make Jay BETTER at hooks. Ur honestly making an argument that I'm not making. Ur talking about interpolation where a hook is flipped such as Street Dreams which is very different from the original song. I'm speaking on hooks where Jay isn't on it at all. Or it's just a sample there. If u wanna add those. Nas has brilliant songs like that.

 

[spliz]

That might be his greatest hook ever

Oh wait ...

Mistakenly put that. But be a dikkhead.

 

[Grand_Verbalizer]

Mistakenly put that. But be a dikkhead.

it's funny cause it was the very first one, carry on stanley

Since pointing out a song doesn't have a hook makes you a dikkhead I'll add on that "Message To The Feds" doesn't have one either,

 

[pez]

Nah, it ain't that simple

Jay just marginally better all around

I remember Jay's raps

I don't remember Nas' raps like I remember Jay's raps

Jay is a better writer and artist

Nas' raps are just hard to recite. His cadence is not melodic. Biggie's rhymes everyone knows without even trying. It's too damn catchy. Is that a proper measure of good rapping? Jay is definitely more melodic and even simpler. Nas's lyrics are even hard to break down bar by bar. They run on overlapping the typical measures and stop and start in the middle of normal measures. That's what makes him intricate.

 

[Piff Perkins]

Son no. Ur saying Jay Z is better at hooks than Nas and I'm saying no. Ur going all around the world right now. The point I'm making is that it's not as cut and dry as ur making it and u refuse to accept that fact. Jay has some straight up terrible hooks under his belt. The thing I'm telling u is. Some of Nas' greatest songs is just him on the hook. Jay's greatest songs by the majority aren't like that. Not saying Jay is bad at hooks at all. I'm saying that don't make Jay BETTER at hooks.

Nas has some terrible hooks too lmao. And some of Hov's best songs are also just him on the hook too. And if we really keep it a buck most people are gonna pick Big Pimpin and Money Cash Hoes hooks over virtually any hook Nas did himself.

I'm saying Jay is better at hooks because he has better hooks on his songs. It's that simple to me, I don't care where the hook came from, nor does anyone else outside of this thread. It's why DJs play more Jay than Nas and have been doing so since the late 90s. No DJ, fan, dancer etc is stopping and saying "but who did the hook on nikka What, nikka Who.