Is Akira Toriyama a good writer?

[Thanos]

He's not by even by shonen standards. The big 3 aren't either.

• Kishi was fine until he wanted to incorporate a multilayer story involving everyone which left more questions than answers.
• Kubo had a myriad of issues: power levels, a cast was supposed to grow with him, but end up just being background characters, then ass pulls of the century.
• Oda has overall boring cast, with few members of the cast allowed to be something. The island hopping and the storylines of characters, and the general leave much to be desired.

But the stories are fun to watch despite all these flaws.

 

[Monoblock]

I'm no manga/anime person I just know the mainstream ones like OP, Naruto, AOT,
So my pool of comparison is small

So if I were to compare him to the others I would say he's ok.

He's no Oda

But honestly he's better than Kishi, and Kubo.

I only know Togashi in regards to YuYu idk shyt nor do I care about HxH. So if I was to compare them I would say they r close to equal.
Tho Togashi seems to plan a little(going off Yuyu)

Toriyama is a good writer. He's just someone who keeps it simple. And that's somewhat his strength

Because some artist can handle creating a convoluted multi layered story, with tons stories/narratives going on with so many parts - ex Oda with One Piece

But others can't and it falls apart to being shyt - ex: Kishi with Naruto

Tori keeping it simple is what makes DB >>>>> Better than Naruto

I know you don't have much depth with anime but No the fukk he ain't to the bolded. I like the Cell saga and all but the writing is basic as fukk and say what you want about Kishi and where he got his influences but he created an entire ninja world based on rules and a rich history with clans and villages. The story did fall off a bit after Shippuuden but not enough for me to flat out say it was wack when it wrapped up. Classic fights, characters, with strategies and rules and not just yelling reaching new Saiyan forms like in DBZ has done for damn near 20 years. And just to be clear I liked DB and liked Super for what it was but good writing and Toriyama should not go hand in hand. Just b/c you keep it simple doesn't mean you have good writing especially when you know what the outcome is gonna be with the same character over and over.
You also need to watch Hunter X Hunter and Full Metal Alchemist Brotherhood if you want to see good writing.

 

[42 Monks]

He's not on the record on saying ANY of this breh. Stop. Toriyama used Goku's absence as a plot device for like 4 straight arcs but the story revolved around him. Toriyama has said many times that Goku and Piccolo are his favorite characters.

Kanzenshuu | Translations Archive
Intended Endings Guide - Kanzenshuu

Have at it

"“I intended to put Gohan into the leading role,” the creator said. “It didn’t work out. I felt that compared to Goku, he was ultimately not suited for the part.”"

Its almost like death threats and a mountain of cash from publishing may have had something to do with it

 

[Sir Charles Barkley]

gohan can never be the main character because gohan will never be goku.

goku made sure his son grew stronger than him because that’s what a father is supposed to do, but gohan does not have that lustful need to constantly train and constantly improve. for that reason alone he can’t function as the lead.

and it would also make sense that goku, despite being surpassed by his own son, would still continue to train and use that as even more fuel. because no matter what he still has an obsession with being the strongest fighter in the world.

which is why goku is the lead character.

 

[FunkDoc1112]

"“I intended to put Gohan into the leading role,” the creator said. “It didn’t work out. I felt that compared to Goku, he was ultimately not suited for the part.”"

Its almost like death threats and a mountain of cash from publishing may have had something to do with it

Way to ignore the entire second half of the quote

 

[42 Monks]

Way to ignore the entire second half of the quote

Like you've never seen someone tow the line before especially with all the evidence to the contrary

May as well say all of the Terminator movies after 2 were made to further develop that universe and The Hobbit was intended to be three movies if you take shyt like that at face value

 

[FunkDoc1112]

Like you've never seen someone tow the line before especially with all the evidence to the contrary

May as well say all of the Terminator movies after 2 were made to further develop that universe and The Hobbit was intended to be three movies if you take shyt like that at face value

So now you're going off of YOUR OWN interpretation of shyt and spitting it as fact. Okay.

Toriyama's gone on record for saying that he's never listened to the fans and actually liked to subvert expectations, and the only time he ever really let the fans steer him in a certain direction was bringing Vegeta back after the Saiyan saga. He's never said anything about fans or editors making him bring Goku back, and form everything he's said in interviews, he prefers to write about Goku anyway.

It's a bullshyt rumor fans made up in the 90s but so many people keep bringing it up that it's assumed to be true. But it's not. The only actual quote Toriyama's given on it contradicts it entirely. The end.

The interview probably exists on the same site the Styles P "Rocawear coat" diss can be found at

 

[42 Monks]

So now you're going off of YOUR OWN interpretation of shyt and spitting it as fact. Okay.

Toriyama's gone on record for saying that he's never listened to the fans and actually liked to subvert expectations, and the only time he ever really let the fans steer him in a certain direction was bringing Vegeta back after the Saiyan saga. He's never said anything about fans or editors making him bring Goku back, and form everything he's said in interviews, he prefers to write about Goku anyway.

It's a bullshyt rumor fans made up in the 90s but so many people keep bringing it up that it's assumed to be true. But it's not. The only actual quote Toriyama's given on it contradicts it entirely. The end.

It'd be my own interpretation if the death threats and publisher pressure didn't match up. If you want to take an obvious "well i guess" stance and hold on to it like the bible that's on you.

Just apply that same logic to any other instance in entertainment and see how well that holds up against common sense. That's no conspiracy - that's clinging to obvious BS because it confirms what you want to hear. "It didn't work out" because people wanted him dead and after changing out/redesigning villains several times during Android/Cell run his publishers damn sure weren't gonna let him throw their bag away. Its like you've never heard of writers getting half their scripts thrown in the trash on the way to making a blockbuster. This is every day stuff. You get your check and fall in line.

Boruto isn't a cash grab and Hunter X Hunter is definitely getting finished by the way.

 

[Spliff]

The story was at its apex during Namek/Frieza saga. The entire series came full circle at that point: Namekian origin, Dragonball origin, Saiyan origin, the ultimate evil presented itself, Goku's "chosen one" prophecy fulfilled. It was great, compelling stuff. DB exploded in popularity during this period for a reason.

While it progressively got worse as it went on from there, it was never bad until after DBZ concluded.

 

[FunkDoc1112]

It'd be my own interpretation if the death threats and publisher pressure didn't match up. If you want to take an obvious "well i guess" stance and hold on to it like the bible that's on you.

Just apply that same logic to any other instance in entertainment and see how well that holds up against common sense. That's no conspiracy - that's clinging to obvious BS because it confirms what you want to hear. "It didn't work out" because people wanted him dead and after changing out/redesigning villains several times during Android/Cell run his publishers damn sure weren't gonna let him throw their bag away. Its like you've never heard of writers getting half their scripts thrown in the trash on the way to making a blockbuster. This is every day stuff. You get your check and fall in line.

Boruto isn't a cash grab and Hunter X Hunter is definitely getting finished by the way.

The problem is Toriyama has never said shyt about the fans or editors making him change his decisions in regarding to the Buu arc and yet everybody says it like it;s an actual fact and that quotes of him saying it exist, When they don't. The only things we "know" about with the creative process of any show is directly what we're told, and anything else is assumption. Period. What we do know - what has actually been said - is that Toriyama made the choice himself to ditch Gohan. We know about the editorial influence of the Cell saga because Toriyama has actually said that's what happened! And not only that, but even in that case, it wasn't even his actual editor that made him keep changing shyt - it was his former editor calling him and busting his balls about the villains, and Toriyama adjusting to his criticism. SO he wasn't even forced by his editors to change it anyway! The only thing his actual editor at the time did was make him change Cell's design for his perfect form.

The "Gohan was supposed to be the hero but the fans/editors made him go with Goku instead" is nothing but speculation, but was presented as facts with an interview cited as evidence. But that interview doesn't actually exist. So continuing to believe it as the truth is PRECISELY going with what you want to be true.

You can speculate all you want but the only statement from the horse's mouth doesn't agree with you.

shyt, Toriyama even said that his editor during the Buu saga pretty much let him do his thing the whole arc, which is why the writing was sloppier.

 

[Wiles]

gohan can never be the main character because gohan will never be goku.

goku made sure his son grew stronger than him because that’s what a father is supposed to do, but gohan does not have that lustful need to constantly train and constantly improve. for that reason alone he can’t function as the lead.

and it would also make sense that goku, despite being surpassed by his own son, would still continue to train and use that as even more fuel. because no matter what he still has an obsession with being the strongest fighter in the world.

which is why goku is the lead character.

- Dear gohan stans

 

[42 Monks]

The problem is Toriyama has never said shyt about the fans or editors making him change his decisions in regarding to the Buu arc and yet everybody says it like it;s an actual fact and that quotes of him saying it exist, When they don't. The only things we "know" about with the creative process of any show is directly what we're told, and anything else is assumption. Period. What we do know - what has actually been said - is that Toriyama made the choice himself to ditch Gohan. We know about the editorial influence of the Cell saga because Toriyama has actually said that's what happened! And not only that, but even in that case, it wasn't even his actual editor that made him keep changing shyt - it was his former editor calling him and busting his balls about the villains, and Toriyama adjusting to his criticism. SO he wasn't even forced by his editors to change it anyway! The only thing his actual editor at the time did was make him change Cell's design for his perfect form.

The "Gohan was supposed to be the hero but the fans/editors made him go with Goku instead" is nothing but speculation, but was presented as facts with an interview cited as evidence. But that interview doesn't actually exist. So continuing to believe it as the truth is PRECISELY going with what you want to be true.

You can speculate all you want but the only statement from the horse's mouth doesn't agree with you.

Yeah you can have that one if you're that determined to take shyt at face value while ignoring the evidence to the contrary then you hold it down man

 

[FunkDoc1112]

Yeah you can have that one if you're that determined to take shyt at face value while ignoring the evidence to the contrary then you hold it down man

There's no fukking evidence to the contrary. That's the crux of the entire problem. The "evidence" is some shyt nikkas on a forum made up in the 90s. shyt, Toriyama's even said his editor during the Buu saga was hands off and let him do his thing

What, you think we have manga dirtsheets breaking the behind the scenes scoops or something?

Only shyt we know about how Dragon Ball was made is the stuff Toriyama and others involved have actually said. I can say shyt like "Toriyama made Super Saiyans blonde because he got tired of coloring everybody's hair" as a fact because he's said it. Like I keep saying, "Fans/editors made Toriyama switch it up" is your own assumption, but it's not a fact and Toriyama's own words on the subject contradict it. Give up breh.

For fukk's sake, none of us even lived in Japan and followed the show as it was going on so we don't even know how the Japanese fans even reacted anyway unless we read up on it after the fact

 

[42 Monks]

There's no fukking evidence to the contrary. That's the crux of the entire problem. The "evidence" is some shyt nikkas on a forum made up in the 90s. shyt, Toriyama's even said his editor during the Buu saga was hands off and let him do his thing

What, you think we have manga dirtsheets breaking the behind the scenes scoops or something?

Only shyt we know about how Dragon Ball was made is the stuff Toriyama and others involved have actually said. I can say shyt like "Toriyama made Super Saiyans blonde because he got tired of coloring everybody's hair" as a fact because he's said it. Like I keep saying, "Fans/editors made Toriyama switch it up" is your own assumption, but it's not a fact and Toriyama's own words on the subject contradict it. Give up breh.

For fukk's sake, none of us even lived in Japan and followed the show as it was going on so we don't even know how the Japanese fans even reacted anyway unless we read up on it after the fact

There's no evidence to the contrary such as the entire focus on the situation and all that's centered around it? oh okay

You got your face value stance. I don't even know why you bother examining shyt at all. Here I thought there was some actual point you were getting to but it really did just boil down to "he said it, that's the end of it"

just make sure you apply to that everything else

 

[FunkDoc1112]

There's no evidence to the contrary such as the entire focus on the situation and all that's centered around it? oh okay

You got your face value stance. I don't even know why you bother examining shyt at all. Here I thought there was some actual point you were getting to but it really did just boil down to "he said it, that's the end of it"

just make sure you apply to that everything else

Where's the evidence, dude? "The entire focus and all that's centered around it" is your own assumption that in itself is informed by a fake rumor anyway. The main thing planting that assumption in your head to begin with is a fake rumor. Surely there's a source, an interview, or SOMETHING. What we know:

Toriyama's favorite character is Goku
Toriyama never listened to the fans
Toriyama's editor at the time was hands-off and let him do his thing
In Toriyama's own words, he didn't think Gohan was good enough

This is a 30-year old series from another country. We don't even know how the fans reacted to this shyt when it happened to begin with! What we do know is that Gohan was at the top of the popularity polls in '93 though In other words, heading into the Buu saga, Gohan was the mos popular character in the show, even above Goku, so clearly the fans had no problem getting behind him, right?

I don't speak on shyt unless I'm informed on all of the circumstances. That's what separates the experts from the casuals