Is a College Degree Necessary in all reality?

[Deuterion]

We should be getting as many black people as possible to go to college. We need to realize that we are at a disadvantage and a degree requirement is one less obstacle you have to face in the market.

Only the dumb and lazy try to discourage people from attaining a higher education.

We need Black people to get educated but that does not mean that college is the answer for everyone. If you think a degree is the key to success you’re just buying into the bullshyt that has a lot of 20 years in huge debt working a service based job.

Seriously ,what does this even mean? People shouldn't go to college because your boss can't fill a position ?
Edit: Nm, you joined on Monday. Neg. Hopefully you'll get your rep up once you can post in tlr.

I didn’t say anything about my boss. What I said is I make six figures and I only have technical certifications. I also stated that there are positions open at my job right now for 75k base a year that require someone be certified in a trade but not have a degree. So looking to college as the end all be all route to success is a scam. People need to look at their individual situation and determine their best course of action. For instance, telling someone who wants to be a Network Engineer to get a degree is not always the best advice because they can get certifications and still get the same job but not be saddled with 5 figure debt.

 

[Pressure]

We need Black people to get educated but that does not mean that college is the answer for everyone. If you think a degree is the key to success you’re just buying into the bullshyt that has a lot of 20 years in huge debt working a service based job.




I didn’t say anything about my boss. What I said is I make six figures and I only have technical certifications. I also stated that there are positions open at my job right now for 75k base a year that require someone be certified in a trade but not have a degree. So looking to college as the end all be all route to success is a scam. People need to look at their individual situation and determine their best course of action. For instance, telling someone who wants to be a Network Engineer to get a degree is not always the best advice because they can get certifications and still get the same job but not be saddled with 5 figure debt.

I work in tech. I make over six figures. There are barriers that exist for those who dont have a college degree.

5 figure debt is a car. If you're making 6 figures your 200/month student loan payment isn't going to stress you.

But the income gap between those who have degress and those who do not is real.

 

[BillBanneker]

Employers now use degrees as a default "competency" meter and just out of perception that degree holders are higher quality, so yes they are necessary.

I think your actual question is that "are degrees necessary for the material demands of most jobs that employers require" I would say no.

 

[Robbie3000]

We need Black people to get educated but that does not mean that college is the answer for everyone. If you think a degree is the key to success you’re just buying into the bullshyt that has a lot of 20 years in huge debt working a service based job.




I didn’t say anything about my boss. What I said is I make six figures and I only have technical certifications. I also stated that there are positions open at my job right now for 75k base a year that require someone be certified in a trade but not have a degree. So looking to college as the end all be all route to success is a scam. People need to look at their individual situation and determine their best course of action. For instance, telling someone who wants to be a Network Engineer to get a degree is not always the best advice because they can get certifications and still get the same job but not be saddled with 5 figure debt.

There are very few six figure professions that don't require a college degree or advanced degree.

On average, a college graduate earns much more than a high school diploma. Over a lifetime, a person with a college degree will earn $2.3 million more than a person with a high school diploma. This is a fact.

People mistakenly assume the household incomes of Asians and Indians are a result of owning small businesses, but their much higher incomes are really a result of their higher education attainment. As an African immigrant raised in the U.S, i can attest to this higher education fueled social mobility. I know dozens and dozens of families who were able to move from poor working class to being securely in the middle or upper middle classes in the span of a generation.

I can guarantee you, the black population in this country could dramatically close the income and wealth gap if we doubled or tripled the number of people who go to and graduate college.

I say that confidently even given the inherent hiring discrimination practices in this country.

I wish someone would do a study on education/incomes/wealth of black immigrants vs educatio/incomes/wealth of native born blacks. I bet you we would not only see correlation, but causality.

 

[Deuterion]

I work in tech. I make over six figures. There are barriers that exist for those who dont have a college degree.

5 figure debt is a car. If you're making 6 figures your 200/month student loan payment isn't going to stress you.

But the income gap between those who have degress and those who do not is real.

That’s assuming that college graduates are getting six figure jobs when they get their degree which is not the case. Then you factor in cost of living, the theoretical $200.00/month payment could be a large burden. In places like Southern California and Bay Area, CA...student loan debt and anything less than six figures will have you living destitute after taxes.

 

[Pressure]

That’s assuming that college graduates are getting six figure jobs when they get their degree which is not the case. Then you factor in cost of living, the theoretical $200.00/month payment could be a large burden. In places like Southern California and Bay Area, CA...student loan debt and anything less than six figures will have you living destitute after taxes.

This is false and using the most expensive place to live in the world to make your point.

 

[Deuterion]

There are very few six figure professions that don't require a college degree or advanced degree.

On average, a college graduate earns much more than a high school diploma. Over a lifetime, a person with a college degree will earn $2.3 million more than a person with a high school diploma. This is a fact.

People mistakenly assume the household incomes of Asians and Indians are a result of owning small businesses, but their much higher incomes are really a result of their higher education attainment. As an African immigrant raised in the U.S, i can attest to this higher education fueled social mobility. I know dozens and dozens of families who were able to move from poor working class to being securely in the middle or upper middle classes in the span of a generation.

I can guarantee you, the black population in this country could dramatically close the income and wealth gap if we doubled or tripled the number of people who go to and graduate college.

I say that confidently even given the inherent hiring discrimination practices in this country.

I wish someone would do a study on education/incomes/wealth of black immigrants vs educatio/incomes/wealth of native born blacks. I bet you we would not only see correlation, but causality.

You’re arguing a totally different point...compare how much College Degree holders make compared to those with a Trade Skill or Tech Certs. The average degree holder will only make $90,000 more in 30 years than the average trade school graduate according to the National Center of Educational Statistics while costing 3x less! Then when you factor in that Trade School graduates enter the workforce quicker...in 52 years the gap between earned income will only be $6,000 and that is before factoring in the huge loan and or loans the college student took out. So like I have said many times in this thread...COLLEGE IS NOT THE ONLY OPTION. You are buying into the college scam...people are going to college saddled in huge debt and can’t even get a good paying job. The average trade costs 33k, the average bachelors is 127k but the overall difference in income over a career span is 6k? Why would you even sit here and propose college as the only solution? You sound like you work for a student loan company.

 

[Robbie3000]

You’re arguing a totally different point...compare how much College Degree holders make compared to those with a Trade Skill or Tech Certs. The average degree holder will only make $90,000 more in 30 years than the average trade school graduate according to the National Center of Educational Statistics while costing 3x less! Then when you factor in that Trade School graduates enter the workforce quicker...in 52 years the gap between earned income will only be $6,000 and that is before factoring in the huge loan and or loans the college student took out. So like I have said many times in this thread...COLLEGE IS NOT THE ONLY OPTION. You are buying into the college scam...people are going to college saddled in huge debt and can’t even get a good paying job. The average trade costs 33k, the average bachelors is 127k but the overall difference in income over a career span is 6k? Why would you even sit here and propose college as the only solution? You sound like you work for a student loan company.

Post a link to that study.

All I know is the richest and most successful people spend a considerable amount of time and money making sure their kids have the best shot at getting into good universities. I've never heard a successful lawyer or executive try to steer their kids to become certified HVAC technicians or Dental assistants.

I guess it all depends on the ambition you have for your station in life and that of your kids. If your hopes for your kid is a HVAC technicial cert, thats fine.

I want my future kids to aim for Ivy League schools and advanced degrees.

 

[Deuterion]

Post a link to that study.

All I know is the richest and most successful people spend a considerable amount of time and money making sure their kids have the best shot at getting into good universities. I've never heard a successful lawyer or executive try to steer their kids to become certified HVAC technicians or Dental assistants.

I guess it all depends on the ambition you have for your station in life and that of your kids. If your hopes for your kid is a HVAC technicial cert, thats fine.

I want my future kids to aim for Ivy League schools and advanced degrees.

The things to understand are 1. I never said college is bad, I said it not the right choice in every situation and 2. The USA is not a meritocracy.

The richest and most succesful groups in the United States which you have expressed desire to assimilate into are not rich because they go to college, they are rich due to generational wealth and having connections with politicians, bankers, lawyers, CEOs, and etc. You think Donald Trump is rich because he went to Wharton School of Business? Please. He is rich because his Father was a rich real estate investor which in turn gave Donald access to capital and connections that he would have had even if he did not go to Wharton! You think Jared Kushner is rich because he went to an Ivy League school? No, he is rich because his parents are rich and sent him to an Ivy League college which they donated to! In these communities, College is more of a right of passage and status symbol than a means of education hence why these kids come out of school not knowing shyt but still end up getting high ranking positions in corporate America.

I think raising children with critical thinking skills who learn to make choices based on their own personal circumstance makes for a better future because those kids will be able to adapt. Turning kids into mindless drones by forcing them to mirror the ways of a class of people who sit on a foundation of privilege is non-sensical to me but do you. Those are the kids that are lost now because they have followed all the steps their elders told them but the economy is simply not there to provide them the American dream they were promised once they got a degree.

That’s why I’m teaching my son to think like a capitalist...to seize every opportunity and to judge the viability of a plan based on the circumstances of his life. Sometimes trade school is more advantageous, sometimes building a business and striking while the iron is hot is more advantageous...life is dynamic and ever changing and that’s why I don’t agree that college is for everyone.

Here are some links on the benefits of Trades and earning potential.

After decades of pushing bachelor’s degrees, U.S. needs more tradespeople

Why You Should Consider Trade School Instead of College - The Simple Dollar

 

[THE MACHINE]

My wife has a masters and makes six figures.
I don't have a degree and make six figures, started making six figures at 31 (I'm 34 now). I have an ITIL cert and my PMP with a clearance.
Just depends on what profession you want to get into.

 

[Robbie3000]

The things to understand are 1. I never said college is bad, I said it not the right choice in every situation and 2. The USA is not a meritocracy.

The richest and most succesful groups in the United States which you have expressed desire to assimilate into are not rich because they go to college, they are rich due to generational wealth and having connections with politicians, bankers, lawyers, CEOs, and etc. You think Donald Trump is rich because he went to Wharton School of Business? Please. He is rich because his Father was a rich real estate investor which in turn gave Donald access to capital and connections that he would have had even if he did not go to Wharton! You think Jared Kushner is rich because he went to an Ivy League school? No, he is rich because his parents are rich and sent him to an Ivy League college which they donated to! In these communities, College is more of a right of passage and status symbol than a means of education hence why these kids come out of school not knowing shyt but still end up getting high ranking positions in corporate America.

I think raising children with critical thinking skills who learn to make choices based on their own personal circumstance makes for a better future because those kids will be able to adapt. Turning kids into mindless drones by forcing them to mirror the ways of a class of people who sit on a foundation of privilege is non-sensical to me but do you. Those are the kids that are lost now because they have followed all the steps their elders told them but the economy is simply not there to provide them the American dream they were promised once they got a degree.

That’s why I’m teaching my son to think like a capitalist...to seize every opportunity and to judge the viability of a plan based on the circumstances of his life. Sometimes trade school is more advantageous, sometimes building a business and striking while the iron is hot is more advantageous...life is dynamic and ever changing and that’s why I don’t agree that college is for everyone.

Here are some links on the benefits of Trades and earning potential.

After decades of pushing bachelor’s degrees, U.S. needs more tradespeople

Why You Should Consider Trade School Instead of College - The Simple Dollar

Bullshyt. Higher education and especially quality higher education is one of the surest vehicles for social mobility in the United States. Especially given the odds that are systematically stacked against us.

Let's be reality for a second, going to Havard Law and becoming editor of the Law review is what gave Obama the credibility to eventually run for Senate and President. Yes, it's sad Obama has to achieve so much more than Trump, but that is the reality in which we live.

Let's even be more reality, if Malia or Sasha ended up in trade school studying to become dental hygienists, it would be a great disappointment not only to the Obama family, but to black america.

I want to set similar lofty expectations for my kids. I feel all black men should set lofty expectations for their kids. We shouldn't fukking settle for trade schools. We should aim to be over represented in prestigious institutions/fields. I think that's how Jews have been able to secure and wield so much power given the size of their population. They are over represented in the most prestigious institutions/fields.

 

[Anerdyblackguy]

You’re arguing a totally different point...compare how much College Degree holders make compared to those with a Trade Skill or Tech Certs. The average degree holder will only make $90,000 more in 30 years than the average trade school graduate according to the National Center of Educational Statistics while costing 3x less! Then when you factor in that Trade School graduates enter the workforce quicker...in 52 years the gap between earned income will only be $6,000 and that is before factoring in the huge loan and or loans the college student took out. So like I have said many times in this thread...COLLEGE IS NOT THE ONLY OPTION. You are buying into the college scam...people are going to college saddled in huge debt and can’t even get a good paying job. The average trade costs 33k, the average bachelors is 127k but the overall difference in income over a career span is 6k? Why would you even sit here and propose college as the only solution? You sound like you work for a student loan company.

You seem like a good poster, but there’re a lot of flaws in this statement breh.

1) You only assume the difference between skill workers and college graduates is financial ( the 90,000 dollar difference), However that’s not the only difference. You didn’t include connections, resources, alumni benefits, etc. Those are just as important as the 90,000 dollar gap.

-Think of it this way. You do your career in whatever trade you pick ( Hvac, plumbing, I.T, whatever) then after 40-50 years you retire. What do you leave your future offspring? ( how to do the same thing?)

-College graduates leave a lot more for their kids in terms of resources, especially with connections. You used Donald Trump as an example in your second statement. He’s a perfect example on why college is important. His father would never had made that money if he didn’t go to Wharton. Then what happens to Trump? At best he’s some douchebag as an executive in some Fortune 500 company, but he would definitely not be president. His fathers “college” connections made him into this.

*You're underestimating the resources these name brand universities carry. Whether it’s research institutes, fellowships, study abroad programs, Entrepreneurship and innovation labs. You can’t argue these resources are not beneficial long term.

-You talk about student loans, while the average cost of attending a four college and university is high as you noted. The average student debt is around 38,000 dollars (well worth it).

 

[Deuterion]

Bullshyt. Higher education and especially quality higher education is one of the surest vehicles for social mobility in the United States. Especially given the odds that are systematically stacked against us.

Let's be reality for a second, going to Havard Law and becoming editor of the Law review is what gave Obama the credibility to eventually run for Senate and President. Yes, it's sad Obama has to achieve so much more than Trump, but that is the reality in which we live.

Let's even be more reality, if Malia or Sasha ended up in trade school studying to become dental hygienists, it would be a great disappointment not only to the Obama family, but to black america.

I want to set similar lofty expectations for my kids. I feel all black men should set lofty expectations for their kids. We shouldn't fukking settle for trade schools. We should aim to be over represented in prestigious institutions/fields. I think that's how Jews have been able to secure and wield so much power given the size of their population. They are over represented in the most prestigious institutions/fields.

See you keep missing the point which is that “College is not bad, it’s just not for everyone” hence why your comment about Malia and Sasha are irrelevent. Going to a Trade School is not settling, getting a CCNP or a CCIE is not settling, getting a trade saving money, purchasing real estate, or creating a business is not settling. Steve Jobs didn’t get a degree...did he settle? Bill Gates didn’t get a degree...did he settle? You are literally overlooking the point that there are multiple roads to success and people need to select the road the fits their current circumstance and goals.

Lastly, Jews have been able to secure and wield so much power because they stick together and control industries such as banking...not because of degrees. If Black people want to have a better economic standing which inevitably leads to power the answer is not “everyone has to get a degree”. Getting a degree at an Ivy League University is only a lofty goal if that is someone’s dream. My lofty goal for my son is to create a company in a viable and sustainable industry that he can grown into a self-operating business. Then employing other Black people and giving them the blueprint to do what he did.

Newsflash: You don’t need a degree to do that...there ain’t even degrees to teach you how to create the future because it doesn’t exist therefore you can’t document. My point is that college is not the end all be all and anyone marketing it as that has an agenda.

 

[Deuterion]

You seem like a good poster, but there’re a lot of flaws in this statement breh.


1) You only assume the difference between skill workers and college graduates is financial ( the 90,000 dollar difference), However that’s not the only difference. You didn’t include connections, resources, alumni benefits, etc. Those are just as important as the 90,000 dollar gap.

Yes but on average those differences will only net you a surplus of $6,000 dollars. Clearly there is a social component there that you are referencing but I know you wouldn’t even try to insinuate that college is the only form of network around right?

-Think of it this way. You do your career in whatever trade you pick ( Hvac, plumbing, I.T, whatever) then after 40-50 years you retire. What do you leave your future offspring? ( how to do the same thing?)

How does that differ from a degree? What if you get a Finance degree and work for 40-50 years...what do you leave your children? College degrees aren’t magic...it doesn’t just imbue you with some magical long lasting family knowledge and wealth. Someone with a trade can open a business in that trade and pass it to their children while someone with a degree lives check to check and leaves their children a 10,000 funeral bill.

-College graduates leave a lot more for their kids in terms of resources, especially with connections. You used Donald Trump as an example in your second statement. He’s a perfect example on why college is important. His father would never had made that money if he didn’t go to Wharton. Then what happens to Trump? At best he’s some douchebag as an executive in some Fortune 500 company, but he would definitely not be president. His fathers “college” connections made him into this.

I disagree because my grandpa could have went to the same school as Fred Trump, taken the same classes, but have had none of the opportunities because of his skin color. You are confusing the benefits of white privilege with the benefits of a college degree. White privilege allows you to go the bank and get a loan to start a business while 80% of your competition is excluded because of their race. You don’t need college to teach you how to take advantage of a government program to help you finance developments.

*You're underestimating the resources these name brand universities carry. Whether it’s research institutes, fellowships, study abroad programs, Entrepreneurship and innovation labs. You can’t argue these resources are not beneficial long term.

If it only nets on average $6,000 more over a span of a career it may not always be worth it. Someone with a trade could make a couple smart investments and close that gap.

-You talk about student loans, while the average cost of attending a four college and university is high as you noted. The average student debt is around 38,000 dollars (well worth it).

Well worth it to some, not all.

 

[Rice N Beans]

It is necessary to be a part of the normal job field, but you most def do not need it in reality. Everyone tries to get one, which is why everyone feels like they need it.

Actual ability to perform the job as required > piece of paper saying you sat in class X hours.

That's in my opinion though. I get why there's a degree gate for damn near everything.