Irish Chattel Slaves - The Myth, by Kofi Khepera

Mowgli

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Fact check: ‘Irish slaves’ meme repeats discredited article
A lengthy post relating to Irish people and slavery has been widely reposted and shared on Facebook. The text is from a widely discredited 2008 article.

Reuters Fact Check. REUTERS/Axel Schmidt

The text has been posted by multiple Facebook accounts ( here , here , hereand here ) and generated thousands of shares. It is extracted from the 2008 article which can be found here .

The piece is credited to a John Martin whose identity cannot be verified.

Irish historian Liam Hogan has rewritten extensively about myths surrounding Irish people and slavery (bit.ly/3hHhDSn) and traces many recent examples of misinformation on the subject back to the 2008 text featured in the posts. In an email to Reuters, he described the piece as “racist ahistorical propaganda”.

Dozens of academics signed a 2016 open letter attacking “’Irish slaves’ disinformation” which singled out the 2008 article as one of the sources of the false narrative (bit.ly/3hD6EJH).

The posts begin by stating: “The Irish slave trade began when 30,000 Irish prisoners were sold as slaves to the New World. The King James I Proclamation of 1625 required Irish political prisoners be sent overseas and sold to English settlers in the West Indies.”

This is an edited version of the original article which named the monarch in question as James II. The claim has been debunked by Hogan, who said there was no evidence for the existence of such a proclamation and pointed out that James II was not born until 1633 (bit.ly/2YU4ixz).

The post also states: “From 1641 to 1652, over 500,000 Irish were killed by the English and another 300,000 were sold as slaves.” Hogan, referring to “The Irish Diaspora” by Andrew Bielenberg (here), told Reuters: “The total migration from Ireland to the West Indies for the entire 17th century is estimated to have been around 50,000 people and the total migration from Ireland to British North America and the West Indies is estimated to have been circa 165,000 between 1630 and 1775. If this is the case, where on earth is the meme getting the unequivocal and impossible 300,000 forced deportations from Ireland over a ten year period?”

The post also claims that Irish woman and girls were forced to procreate with African slaves. Hogan writes that there is no evidence to support this claim (bit.ly/2AUaZHE) and states: “These ahistorical claims are part racialised sadomasochistic fantasy and part old white supremacist myth”.

The post also states: “During the 1650s, over 100,000 Irish children between the ages of 10 and 14 were taken from their parents and sold as slaves in the West Indies, Virginia and New England”. There is no evidence to support this figure. In Barbados, where the majority of Irish indentured servants were sent, the total number of white immigrants, indentured or free, by the early 1870s was estimated at 21,500 ( here ).

A recent Reuters fact-checking article on another widely shared meme related to Ireland and slavery can be seen here . It details the differences between temporary indentured servitude and racialized chattel slavery and the appeal of ‘Irish slaves’ myths to racist groups.

VERDICT
False. Facebook posts purporting to describe the origins of “Irish slavery” are a rehash of a 2008 article consisting of numerous false claims.

This article was produced by the Reuters Fact Check team.

Fact check: ‘Irish slaves’ meme repeats discredited article
I didn't know this was a political conversation.

I'm not trying to prove the Irish had it as bad as black people or the white supremacists talking point that what they went through in terms of slavery mirrors the black experience.

Still, there were white Slaves in America.

you believe every single Irish and I'm also guessing white person that came to America was an indentured servant who was freed after their contract was over.

Okay that's fine I don't believe that because it's not true but I'm not trying to politicize it to say the experiences between white and black were the same.

there were Irish who worked voluntarily and there were some who were Forced to work involuntarily and there were some who were victims of fraudulent contract work and kept by whoever they were serving.

Every single thing I said is a fact and for you to say everything I said was a lie proves your just googling as you go or trying to tell me I'm making an overall point that I'm not making.

One lil lecture is not gospel and if the Irish scholars want to believe no one in their history was a slave in America or any other part of the world that's on them.
 

Ish Gibor

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I didn't know this was a political conversation.

That is because you can't comprehend the conversation. This is why you have been inserting all these nonsense claims. It is political, because it's about Reparations.

I'm not trying to prove the Irish had it as bad as black people or the white supremacists talking point that what they went through in terms of slavery mirrors the black experience.

Still, there were white Slaves in America.

you believe every single Irish and I'm also guessing white person that came to America was an indentured servant who was freed after their contract was over.

It's not what I or you believe, it's about what is know and is documented.

What you claim is all in your imagination, it's pure fiction and make believe. Whites weren't slaves in America, even your own sources disputed you. This is why you can't show any historical documentation for his. What is documented is Irish indenturing servants.

Not only are you ignorant, but also very dumb.

Okay that's fine I don't believe that because it's not true but I'm not trying to politicize it to say the experiences between white and black were the same.

So now you don't even believe it's true, but you are invoking things you yourself don't believe?

there were Irish who worked voluntarily and there were some who were Forced to work involuntarily and there were some who were victims of fraudulent contract work and kept by whoever they were serving.
.

This you also made up. Why do you keep making up shyt? The only thin they were forced to do was become a slave overseer, slave-catchers, which later became the police as we know it. Thus is why historically the Irish had these position in the PD.

Every single thing I said is a fact and for you to say everything I said was a lie proves your just googling as you go or trying to tell me I'm making an overall point that I'm not making.

Every single thing you said is a "fact" in your imagination. Tell, what was the Dred Scott decision 14th amendment decision about? What was and is the 13th amendment about? Is it about Irish, "imaginary white slaves"?

Do you even realize that there were actually laws in place knows as the "slave codes", for the 3/5 human being described as the negroe? Or are you now going to claim that the Irish were the negroes? We have not even gone that deep and here you already are in mishaps. There's a lot of documentation on these early populations. Things you don't even know. lol


Slave Codes

Black code, Laws

The amount of stupidity that flows from your fingertips onto the keyboard is beyond crazy.

One lil lecture is not gospel and if the Irish scholars want to believe no one in their history was a slave in America or any other part of the world that's on them.

That lil lecture goes over the many sources that have made all these false claims, he verified them all. I posted Big Sources as well that teared you a new one. Literally data bases of these Irish folk.

And If it's that lil, you should be able to dispute what he is stating in that lil lecture, which you can't and have not.
 
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Were free Irish people in the United States captured, and sold into slavery the way free black people could be captured, and sold into slavery?

:unimpressed:


If they’re hell bent on considering them slaves, then they should know they received freedom dues, aka reparations. Are they in favor of reparations?

:unimpressed:

And they can shut the fukk up saying “You don’t see them complaining”. So the fukk what? Nothing should matter to black people unless white people think it matters? Where do they get off claiming to be the moral compass of the world?

:mjtf:
 

Mowgli

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That is because you can't comprehend the conversation. This is why you have been inserting all these nonsense claims. It is political, because it's about Reparations.



It's not what I or you believe, it's about what is know and is documented.

What you claim is all in your imagination, it's pure fiction and make believe. Whites weren't slaves in America, even your own sources disputed you. This is why you can't show any historical documentation for his. What is documented is Irish indenturing servants.

Not only are you ignorant, but also very dumb.



So now you don't even believe it's true, but you are invoking things you yourself don't believe?



This you also made up. Why do you keep making up shyt? The only thin they were forced to do was become a slave overseer, slave-catchers, which later became the police as we know it. Thus is why historically the Irish had these position in the PD.



Every single thing you said is a "fact" in your imagination. Tell, what was the Dred Scott decision 14th amendment decision about? What was and is the 13th amendment about? Is it about Irish, "imaginary white slaves"?

Do you even realize that there were actually laws in place knows as the "slave codes", for the 3/5 human being described as the negroe? Or are you now going to claim that the Irish were the negroes? We have not even gone that deep and here you already are in mishaps. There's a lot of documentation on these early populations. Things you don't even know. lol

Slave Codes

Black code, Laws

The amount of stupidity that flows from your fingertips onto the keyboard is beyond crazy.



That lil lecture goes over the many sources that have made all these false claims, he verified them all. I posted Big Sources as well that teared you a new one. Literally data bases of these Irish folk.

And If it's that lil, you should be able to dispute what he is stating in that lil lecture, which you can't and have not.
O it's a reparations conversation. You have a reason to omit.

Carry on :hubie:

Hey they debate the real accounts of their history and fukked themselves out of money. Good for them :blessed:
 

Ish Gibor

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O it's a reparations conversation. You have a reason to omit.

Carry on :hubie:

That's what happens when you don't read and listen to the actual lecture, you start to miss out on the crux of the matter. You look pretty dumb here. The Irish got payments in Headrights system, Homestead Act etc. Payments as overseers etc.

Nowhere in the constitution Irish, or whites as you stated are described as a slave population.

Africans became a slave population because of the genetic dominant genes that Europeans considered a treat to their existence, as is till this very day. You don't even understand the basics of this history, but you are here claiming all these falsehoods. Have you ever considered a clowns act? Your avatar says "joker" after all. I am here to destroy the b*llsh*t, that is what my existance is about.


"South Carolina’s Slave Code of 1740 was a series of laws aimed at controlling the population of enslaved African Americans. It prohibited slaves from gathering without white supervision, learning to read and write, and growing their own food. It also created harsher punishments for disobeying the law. The legislature enacted the Slave Code shortly after the Stono Rebellion, which reinforced slave owners’ fears of slave uprisings."
Slave Code of South Carolina, May 1740

“All Negroes, Indians, Mulatoes or Mestizos (except those already free) who now are or shall hereafter be in this province and their issue or offspring born or to be born are hereby declared to be and remain for ever after absolute slaves.”
Georgiaarchives.org/documents/Slave Laws of Georgia 1755-1860



The painting is from Howard Pyle, 1905.
And it speaks of something else, in the documentations.
But because you don't read,
but rather assume things you didn't get the gist of it.

65cf408eb648d085977dd687d1206a0a.jpg


"In exchange, slaveholding elites benefitted from a class of non-slaveholding whites who provided a protective buffer to help maintain developing race and class hierarchies in the Americas. For example, non-slaveholding whites could serve on patrols to help protect against slave rebellions, particularly as the numbers of enslaved Africans and their descendants in the Americas increased with the continued growth of the trans-Atlantic slave trade and Atlantic plantation economies. In regions where enslaved Africans held a numerical majority, white elites promoted multi-tiered racial hierarchies. In these areas, enslaved or free people with lighter skin tones (often due to mixed European and African or American Indian ancestry) received milder labor treatment or special privileges over dark-skinned enslaved Africans to again generate a protective buffer class to secure the institution of slavery."
New World Labor Systems: European Indentured Servants · African Passages, Lowcountry Adaptations · Lowcountry Digital History Initiative
 
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Ish Gibor

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Were free Irish people in the United States captured, and sold into slavery the way free black people could be captured, and sold into slavery?

:unimpressed:


If they’re hell bent on considering them slaves, then they should know they received freedom dues, aka reparations. Are they in favor of reparations?

:unimpressed:

And they can shut the fukk up saying “You don’t see them complaining”. So the fukk what? Nothing should matter to black people unless white people think it matters? Where do they get off claiming to be the moral compass of the world?

:mjtf:

Here is a database of primary sources, with records of the indentured servants.

Virtual Jamestown

Virtual Jamestown - Indentured Servants

"The following selections indicate that Africans and their descendants received unequal treatment in the years before the General Assembly decided that children of enslaved women would be slaves for life. The documents also reveal that relations between English and Africans had a degree of fluidity during the seventeenth century as Virginia developed into a society where race, instead of status, determined one's place in the social hierarchy."
Virtual Jamestown: Indentured Servants



Indentured servant contract.

Awayp_60bg.jpg


Virtual Jamestown
 
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Didn’t real all these posts, but the potato famine killed over a million Irish....and it wasn’t because Ireland had no food, it’s because the English owned the land and exported all the food back to England and the indentured Irish were left to sustain themselves on mainly potatoes, which went belly up in a blight.

All the English had to do was leave resources there to feed them and chose not to, they legit didn’t try to even help. This whole “one nationality ruling over another and keeping them down” is one of the main reasons that white supremacists have latched on to the stories mentioned in the first post.

The other reason is the US then took like 2 million Irish immigrants in over the decade and they became the “illegal immigrants” of the day back then. If you watch Gangs of New York, its touching on this very topic.

The English and Americans tried to turn them into “apes” to try to group them together with black slaves and indentured servants.

119.jpg



83.jpg


HOWEVER, the max exodus happened after 200 years of African slavery had already been established in America and was in the process of being outlawed during the civil war. So, because of the timing and the color of their skin, they were eventually able to blend into the Anglo version of ‘white’ over the next 100 years, albeit not without their own hardships to get there.

You should be sympathetic to the Irish cause and their rough story, but it’s a very different discussion than African Slavery in the new world.
 

Ish Gibor

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Why do so many black people have Irish last names yet the Irish weren't big slave owners...
Earlier on I didn't respond, because I wasn't sure whether were are trolling. Now that it's established that you do, I will finish that mood talking point.

"Speaking to TheJournal.ie back in 2014, Liam Hogan explained how over 100 Irish families were financially rewarded when the British government finally abolished slavery in most of its colonies in 1834.

Hogan writes that the British paid slave owners over $30 million in compensation for the loss of their ‘property.’"

Irish slave owners were compensated, historian reveals | IrishCentral.com


"For many of the Irish diaspora the profiteering was direct through slave ownership or employment as overseers. My survey of the slave schedules suggests that slave owners with recognizably Irish surnames owned over 110,000 slaves in the United States in 1860."
https://psmag.com/social-justice/the-irish-were-not-slaves
 

Ish Gibor

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Didn’t real all these posts, but the potato famine killed over a million Irish....and it wasn’t because Ireland had no food, it’s because the English owned the land and exported all the food back to England and the indentured Irish were left to sustain themselves on mainly potatoes, which went belly up in a blight.

All the English had to do was leave resources there to feed them and chose not to, they legit didn’t try to even help. This whole “one nationality ruling over another and keeping them down” is one of the main reasons that white supremacists have latched on to the stories mentioned in the first post.

The other reason is the US then took like 2 million Irish immigrants in over the decade and they became the “illegal immigrants” of the day back then. If you watch Gangs of New York, its touching on this very topic.

The English and Americans tried to turn them into “apes” to try to group them together with black slaves and indentured servants.

119.jpg



83.jpg


HOWEVER, the max exodus happened after 200 years of African slavery had already been established in America and was in the process of being outlawed during the civil war. So, because of the timing and the color of their skin, they were eventually able to blend into the Anglo version of ‘white’ over the next 100 years, albeit not without their own hardships to get there.

You should be sympathetic to the Irish cause and their rough story, but it’s a very different discussion than African Slavery in the new world.

You should stop spreading lies, it's incredibly insulting to the descendants of chattel slavery. And I suggest you start reading all the posts, and look at the lectures before responding. Irish people were paid for their labor and they became a free people after serving their time.

We’ve seen numerous claims online that white Irish people were enslaved for hundreds of years.

However, the idea of “Irish slaves” is a common myth, and claims of white Irish slavery have been continually discredited for decades. In 2016, dozens of historians signed an open letter condemning several publications for the repeating of the myth.

Firstly, the picture attached to this claim is more likely of Belgian coal miners, although the exact source is unclear. Either way, it’s impossible for there to be photos of “Irish slaves” as photography did not exist when the enslavement was claimed to have occurred.

Next, the text of the majority of these posts comes from a 2008 article from a page on website “OpEdNews” called “The Slaves that time forgot.” It is unclear who the author John Martin is, and the article has no citations.

The key claims in the article have also been discredited. The 1625 proclamation by James I that supposedly required Irish political prisoners to be sold to English people in the West Indies has not been found to exist. The figure of 300,000 Irish people sold as slaves (which many of the posts say happened between 1641 and 1652) was found by Reuters to be impossible, based on the total number of people estimated to have migrated from Ireland to North America and the West Indies over the century and a half around this time. And the figure of 100,000 Irish children was also found to be a huge exaggeration and misrepresents the experience of the Irish children who were transported against their will for servitude.

Away from the article, a key part of the myth is a misunderstanding of the indentured servitude many Irish peoples found themselves in.

Irish peoples were shipped across the British empire during the 17th and 18th centuries to provide labour and service for a defined number of years, in return for passage, food and lodgings, and eventually freedom. Many, unlike black slaves, did this by choice, seeking new lives and fortunes in the colonies. For others, servitude happened because they were political prisoners, or forcibly deported or sold.

The eventual freedom given to these workers, and their relative rights, is a key difference in the experiences of white European indentured servants and black people in chattel slavery.

In an article for History Ireland magazine, historians Liam Hogan, Laura McAtackney and Matthew C. Reilly note that while those in indentured servitude (who weren’t only Irish but included people from various other parts of Europe) were often treated badly, they had relatively more power and legal rights than black slaves.

“Laws passed in 1661 carefully spelled out the legal distinctions between slavery (as reserved for ‘Negroes’) and servitude (as reserved for Europeans). Earlier laws from the 1640s, which we know only by name, similarly make clear that certain rules and rights applied to ‘servants’ while others were explicitly for ‘Negroes’.

”They also note that while relations between the British and the Irish may have led to some of the poor treatment, Irish masters participated in the brutal punishment of black slaves just as other slave owners and those with indentured servants did.

This is not to say that Irish people were not subjected to harsh, and unfair conditions from British authorities. But comparing this to the infamously horrific experience of Black slavery undermines the latter.

Several publications note that, in recent years, the Irish slave myth has become a popular tool used by white supremacists to discredit the experiences of black people. Again, speaking to the Southern Poverty Law Centre in 2016, Hogan said: “Why is it used so often to justify anti-black nativism and racism? The sentiment is we were slaves, too, but we moved on, and it speaks to the racist essence of white nationalism.”

The “Irish slave” myth has been widely discredited
 

Mowgli

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"South Carolina’s Slave Code of 1740 was a series of laws aimed at controlling the population of enslaved African Americans. It prohibited slaves from gathering without white supervision, learning to read and write, and growing their own food. It also created harsher punishments for disobeying the law. The legislature enacted the Slave Code shortly after the Stono Rebellion, which reinforced slave owners’ fears of slave uprisings."
Slave Code of South Carolina, May 1740
There was slavery in America before the slave code law and slavery in America didn't begin in the south.
Earlier on I didn't respond, because I wasn't sure whether were are trolling. Now that it's established that you do, I will finish that mood talking point.

"Speaking to TheJournal.ie back in 2014, Liam Hogan explained how over 100 Irish families were financially rewarded when the British government finally abolished slavery in most of its colonies in 1834.

Hogan writes that the British paid slave owners over $30 million in compensation for the loss of their ‘property.’"

Irish slave owners were compensated, historian reveals | IrishCentral.com


"For many of the Irish diaspora the profiteering was direct through slave ownership or employment as overseers. My survey of the slave schedules suggests that slave owners with recognizably Irish surnames owned over 110,000 slaves in the United States in 1860."
https://psmag.com/social-justice/the-irish-were-not-slaves
Jesus Liam Hogan Liam Hogan
Lol. Liam said bruh?
 

Ish Gibor

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There was slavery in America before the slave code law and slavery in America didn't begin in the south.

Jesus Liam Hogan Liam Hogan
Lol. Liam said bruh?

Of course there was, Africans took the Spaniards and Portuguese to the Americas. There are accounts by Columbus that he had Africans on his ship. These Africans at first were a free people, and later became enslaved.

Your continues attempts are pathetic at best.

Juan Garrido (c. 1480-c.1550)

7 amazing black explorers who made a mark in history - Face2Face Africa
 
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Mowgli

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Of course there was, Africans took the Spaniards and Portage to the Americas. There are accounts by Columbus that he had Africans on his ship. These Africans at first were a free people, and later became enslaved.

Your continues attempts are pathetic at best.

Juan Garrido (c. 1480-c.1550)

7 amazing black explorers who made a mark in history - Face2Face Africa
Attempts to do what :mindblown:

I was just tryna talk.

What is the game we are competing in pal.

You seem passionate.

Is that you in the OP YouTube video
 

Ish Gibor

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Attempts to do what :mindblown:

I was just tryna talk.

What is the game we are competing in pal.

You seem passionate.

Is that you in the OP YouTube video

You constantly are trying to shift the goal and insists on Irish (or whites as you stated) to be slaves in the Americas. You hardly know the story. The race concept and racism as we know it came from that era, so what you claim makes no sense. This history didn't start with the Britons. They came later. So that Irish claim is out of the window.

The oldest settlements are from the Dominican Republic, but Puerto Rico as well gives a good indication of what happened.


"When the Dutch handed over power to the British in 1664, the African population had reached 40%. The British continued slave trading and by the Revolutionary War, New York had more slaves than the other colonies, second only to South Carolina"
African Burial Ground | NYPAP



Black Before Columbus Came: The African Discovery of America | Odd Salon DISCOVERY 5/7

Dan Von Hoyel ~ Black Before Columbus Came: The African Discovery of America

 
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