In memory of our brother Charmander, RIP: The OFFICIAL 2019-2020 Atlanta Hawks season thread #Set

How many games will the Hawks win this season

  • 29 or less

    Votes: 22 44.0%
  • 30-35

    Votes: 12 24.0%
  • 36-41

    Votes: 10 20.0%
  • 42+ wins

    Votes: 6 12.0%

  • Total voters
    50
  • Poll closed .

Professor K.

rap game Paul Millsap
Joined
Sep 5, 2013
Messages
7,831
Reputation
2,203
Daps
30,586
Reppin
Atlanta, GA
Needless to say, both Huerter and Collins would help, but let's not pretend like Trae's play hasn't been without its faults (which is to be expected given it's only his second season). Far too often he tries to force shyt on offense, which puts an already limited team in worse spots trying to compensate for it (one of the main causes for their offensive inconsistency), and doesn't provide much resistance on the defensive end.

Some of this could be mitigated if he didn't dominate the ball so much, and the Hawks used him more as an off-ball threat.

:manny:

Trae forcing shyt is still >>>> anybody else on the court right now doing anything involving the ball "within the game" :manny:

As long as prime Aaron Mckie would be our 2nd best offensive option on the court, I'm good with Trae going full :aicmon:
 

#1 pick

The Smart Negroes
Supporter
Joined
Jul 13, 2012
Messages
76,692
Reputation
11,197
Daps
197,453
Reppin
Lamb of God
You’ve never heard someone refer to an aggressive player having some “dog” in him? :dwillhuh:?
If that player has a dog on one end of the floor they are effective, I tend to assume they have a dog in them all around if they are good enough at what they do. I hate the idea that Cam doesn't have a dog on offense, he flat out isn't good, he ain't gonna be much of anything at this time on that end other than what he also can do.
 

#1 pick

The Smart Negroes
Supporter
Joined
Jul 13, 2012
Messages
76,692
Reputation
11,197
Daps
197,453
Reppin
Lamb of God
Needless to say, both Huerter and Collins would help, but let's not pretend like Trae's play hasn't been without its faults (which is to be expected given it's only his second season). Far too often he tries to force shyt on offense, which puts an already limited team in worse spots trying to compensate for it (one of the main causes for their offensive inconsistency and inability to generate any rhythm/momentum), and doesn't provide much resistance on the defensive end.

Some of this could be mitigated if he didn't dominate the ball so much, and the Hawks used him more as an off-ball threat.

:manny:
I been dogging the shyt outta Trae on the Hawks board. His ain't without faults. He's been much better in the last two games but he is part of the problem as well. His defense has been much better this season but oddly that's not the major problem as it was last year. He has a tendency to go Stephon Marbury mode. That shyt irks the fukk outta me.

Kevin hasn't been good but one game this season. John already started to get figured out when teams defend to take away our PnR this year. The area where Atlanta is ass the most is your boy Parker. Worst fukking player man. His defense is ass. His off-ball offense is ass. His scoring while tremendous isn't always impactful. His passing is trash. You and those guys arguing about Parker/Randle just need to stop. Both of those two players are trash and our only effective in spurts as 6th man. Even that needs to be monitored.

Trae can be one of the most amazing offensive players we have ever seen but he can also be a loose cannon who gets us into bad situations, doesn't know when to shoot or pass at times, likes to go with the home run play over the simply play like a young Jason Williams and beyond that, he doesn't play off the ball which is another issue. On the ball, he is as talented as anyone I've seen in the league but he needs a lot of work like the others. I think some of these guys want to give him a pass that they aren't extending to others which his play can be just as maddening.
 

FreshFromATL

Self Made
Joined
May 1, 2012
Messages
19,642
Reputation
2,631
Daps
43,670
Reppin
ATL
Needless to say, both Huerter and Collins would help, but let's not pretend like Trae's play hasn't been without its faults (which is to be expected given it's only his second season). Far too often he tries to force shyt on offense, which puts an already limited team in worse spots trying to compensate for it (one of the main causes for their offensive inconsistency and inability to generate any rhythm/momentum), and doesn't provide much resistance on the defensive end.

Some of this could be mitigated if he didn't dominate the ball so much, and the Hawks used him more as an off-ball threat.

:manny:

Hawks have no one else that can reliably handle the ball other than Huerter
 

#1 pick

The Smart Negroes
Supporter
Joined
Jul 13, 2012
Messages
76,692
Reputation
11,197
Daps
197,453
Reppin
Lamb of God
Pressure gonna be on Travis this offseason.


Hawks have no one else that can reliably handle the ball other than Huerter
Ya'll say Kevin as if we didn't have this year looking like a clown for most of the season outside of the Denver game where of course, he got injured by fat b*stard. Kevin was here and wasn't doing much of anything. All of this Kevin talk needs to come to an halt. Dudes' defense was literally worse than Trae's by the RAPTOR and his defense didn't even improve. John is the player we are truly missing. His ass isn't great either but he fits both offense and defense and his movement frees up space for the wings. Right now, Jabari does too much iso ball. Collins never iso and he always made good decisions when it came to the pass. That's who we are missing. Kevin helps in terms of shooting but the defense with him and Crabbe is awful, in fact, worse with Kevin. None of them looking worth anything with Parker/Jones.

Ain't shyt gonna be on Travis. Travis just needs to get a center on December 15th when many of the potentially available guys will be eligible for trade. That's the most pressing need other than benching Jabari ass when John is back.
 
Joined
Apr 30, 2012
Messages
83,301
Reputation
8,693
Daps
224,718
Trae forcing shyt is still >>>> anybody else on the court right now doing anything involving the ball "within the game" :manny:
The problem with this is, nobody should be forcing shyt.

That's why y'all haven't been able to have any consistency on that end. There are too many clusters of possessions where Trae forces up [missed] shots without moving the ball and/or turns the ball over (he has the ball in his hands for 9.2 minutes per game which is #1= in the league), and the Hawks get in a hole they can't recover from - in the 1st quarter they're 27th in offensive rating and 26th in points.

It happens every game.

If the Hawks used him as an off-ball threat more often, the team would be able to generate and maximize runs more often. As it now stands, everyone is just standing around while Trae dominates the ball, and living and dying with whatever he does; and when they do get the ball it's usually in tough, unfamiliar spots that they can't score in.
Hawks have no one else that can reliably handle the ball other than Huerter
Bembry can reliably handle the ball (as long as he's not looking to score every time he touches it), and Jabari/Reddish/Turner have all shown the ability to handle some duties. It would be more of a collective effort of all the guards/wings to share the load. There's no reason why they can't scale back Trae's ball-possession, and use him running off screens; he won't even need to touch the ball with all the defensive attention he receives. Look at how the Warriors use Steph to get open shots by him just running around and being a distraction.

While it wouldn't turn y'all into world-beaters, it would be A LOT better than the system y'all have now.

:yeshrug:
 

#1 pick

The Smart Negroes
Supporter
Joined
Jul 13, 2012
Messages
76,692
Reputation
11,197
Daps
197,453
Reppin
Lamb of God
The problem with this is, nobody should be forcing shyt.

That's why y'all haven't been able to have any consistency on that end. There are too many clusters of possessions where Trae forces up [missed] shots without moving the ball and/or turns the ball over (he has the ball in his hands for 9.2 minutes per game which is #1= in the league), and the Hawks get in a hole they can't recover from - in the 1st quarter they're 27th in offensive rating and 26th in points.

It happens every game.

If the Hawks used him as an off-ball threat more often, the team would be able to generate and maximize runs more often. As it now stands, everyone is just standing around while Trae dominates the ball, and living and dying with whatever he does; and when they do get the ball it's usually in tough, unfamiliar spots that they can't score in.

Bembry can reliably handle the ball (as long as he's not looking to score every time he touches it), and Jabari/Reddish/Turner have all shown the ability to handle some duties. It would be more of a collective effort of all the guards/wings to share the load. There's no reason why they can't scale back Trae's ball-possession, and use him running off screens; he won't even need to touch the ball with all the defensive attention he receives. Look at how the Warriors use Steph to get open shots by him just running around and being a distraction.

While it wouldn't turn y'all into world-beaters, it would be A LOT better than the system y'all have now.

:yeshrug:
Honestly, this is a really fukking good post from an outsider. I wasn't expecting to agree as most outsiders don't know our team for shyt but damn, this was pretty good.

Bembry's issue is tunnel vision and he does the same thing as Trae where he drives into traffic and gets stuck but Trae with his passing and vision can make something out of nothing while Bembry just turns the ball over. That said, he can still handle it, especially without a screen which is more that I can say about than most of our squad. All of them have their flaws and none of them feel like Trae but Trae just is TOO ball-dominant and it's a determent. Especially when you got such a young team and our pace just isn't that fast anymore.

Our system been rubbish this year because we lost a shooter in Bazemore who shot like 6.1 threes a game and Prince who shot 7.3 threes a game and replaced them with much more projectable rookies who like most potential two way guys, struggling with their shot, don't take enough shots and constantly playing with dead legs as well as just aren't consistent offensively at all. The biggest loss was Dedmon who was a perfect fit as a swing big center. 3.3 threes a game, great floor spacer, 9+ rebounds a game and can communicate defensively. That loss has been our nemesis. Especially Trae's.
 
Joined
Apr 30, 2012
Messages
83,301
Reputation
8,693
Daps
224,718
Honestly, this is a really fukking good post from an outsider. I wasn't expecting to agree as most outsiders don't know our team for shyt but damn, this was pretty good.

Bembry's issue is tunnel vision and he does the same thing as Trae where he drives into traffic and gets stuck but Trae with his passing and vision can make something out of nothing while Bembry just turns the ball over. That said, he can still handle it, especially without a screen which is more that I can say about than most of our squad. All of them have their flaws and none of them feel like Trae but Trae just is TOO ball-dominant and it's a determent. Especially when you got such a young team and our pace just isn't that fast anymore.

Our system been rubbish this year because we lost a shooter in Bazemore who shot like 6.1 threes a game and Prince who shot 7.3 threes a game and replaced them with much more projectable rookies who like most potential two way guys, struggling with their shot, don't take enough shots and constantly playing with dead legs as well as just aren't consistent offensively at all. The biggest loss was Dedmon who was a perfect fit as a swing big center. 3.3 threes a game, great floor spacer, 9+ rebounds a game and can communicate defensively. That loss has been our nemesis. Especially Trae's.
Dedmon has been a huge loss for y'all.

Y'all replaced him with Jones, who doesn't stretch the floor, at all, and doesn't do anything particularly well on either side of the floor to make up for it. And Len is shooting 3s at 16% on 1.4 attempts per game which is less than ideal, and with Collins out it's only one less big man to stretch the floor. Jabari's been more than adequete, but he's not good enough by himself and is best used as a 6th man-type.

2018/19 Hawks: 37 three-point attempts at 35%
2019/20 Hawks: 32 three-points attempts at 31%

It's evident y'all need to switch shyt up to get guys more open looks and easier scoring opportunities (they're not talented enough to create for themselves, or off basic PnR and PnP), which will only happen once Trae stops dominating the ball.

:manny:
 

#1 pick

The Smart Negroes
Supporter
Joined
Jul 13, 2012
Messages
76,692
Reputation
11,197
Daps
197,453
Reppin
Lamb of God
Dedmon has been a huge loss for y'all.

Y'all replaced him with Jones, who doesn't stretch the floor, at all, and doesn't do anything particularly well on either side of the floor to make up for it. And Len is shooting 3s at 16% on 1.4 attempts per game which is less than ideal, and with Collins out it's only one less big man to stretch the floor. Jabari's been more than adequete, but he's not good enough by himself and is best used as a 6th man-type.

2018/19 Hawks: 37 three-point attempts at 35%
2019/20 Hawks: 32 three-points attempts at 31%

It's evident y'all need to switch shyt up to get guys more open looks and easier scoring opportunities (they're not talented enough to create for themselves, or off basic PnR and PnP.), which will only happen once Trae stops dominating the ball.

:manny:
The biggest issue is the starting center spot. While Jones has done well as a roll man off of the PnR and he doesn't really hurt our offense, his defense is just awful with Parker and in general, it's always been bad even in GS. He does show flashes but for the most part, he is mentally too late far too often and obviously doesn't communicate well at all. Dedmon is not even that good but he just fit what we did.

I have been saying for the longest, we need to put the ball in Cam's hands a lot more. He is a pretty good PnR creator for others and it has good results. Hunter has some good results and some so so ones but even then, he is fully engaged. When they just stand in the corner or move without the ball, it can be difficult for them.

Parker has been a big coup as the 6th man for his salary. The issue is as a starter, the role is too great and the personnel just isn't good enough. A center like Adams, he would be fine next too but not Jones. He was better with Len but Len offensively was as much a nightmare anyone.

Overall, I haven't been too mad at Turner. He does a lot of little things, I kinda want that to rub off of him to others.

What's crazy about those numbers is a vast majority comes from Trae. Take out Trae's stats in both years, last year would go way up and this year's would go way down for the team.
 

Professor K.

rap game Paul Millsap
Joined
Sep 5, 2013
Messages
7,831
Reputation
2,203
Daps
30,586
Reppin
Atlanta, GA
The problem with this is, nobody should be forcing shyt.

That's why y'all haven't been able to have any consistency on that end. There are too many clusters of possessions where Trae forces up [missed] shots without moving the ball and/or turns the ball over (he has the ball in his hands for 9.2 minutes per game which is #1= in the league), and the Hawks get in a hole they can't recover from - in the 1st quarter they're 27th in offensive rating and 26th in points.

It happens every game.

If the Hawks used him as an off-ball threat more often, the team would be able to generate and maximize runs more often. As it now stands, everyone is just standing around while Trae dominates the ball, and living and dying with whatever he does; and when they do get the ball it's usually in tough, unfamiliar spots that they can't score in.

Bembry can reliably handle the ball (as long as he's not looking to score every time he touches it), and Jabari/Reddish/Turner have all shown the ability to handle some duties. It would be more of a collective effort of all the guards/wings to share the load. There's no reason why they can't scale back Trae's ball-possession, and use him running off screens; he won't even need to touch the ball with all the defensive attention he receives. Look at how the Warriors use Steph to get open shots by him just running around and being a distraction.

While it wouldn't turn y'all into world-beaters, it would be A LOT better than the system y'all have now.

:yeshrug:

I can agree with that, as long as it's understood that Trae's current usage/inefficiency is due to necessity and growing pains and not some type of fatal flaw in his game :ld:
 
Joined
Apr 30, 2012
Messages
83,301
Reputation
8,693
Daps
224,718
I have been saying for the longest, we need to put the ball in Cam's hands a lot more. He is a pretty good PnR creator for others and it has good results. Hunter has some good results and some so so ones but even then, he is fully engaged. When they just stand in the corner or move without the ball, it can be difficult for them.
Apart from putting the ball in the hoop, Cam's shown a lot of capability in nearly every other area of the game; the parallels between his game and PG's at the same age are eerily similar. I know there's a narrative around his box score #s, but he's showed glimpses of the player he can be; if he can become even half the player PG is, y'all can take solace out of that trade.

I fukks with Hunter too, he's shown that he can be building block going forward.
What's crazy about those numbers is a vast majority comes from Trae. Take out Trae's stats in both years, last year would go way up and this year's would go way down for the team.
2018/19 (sans Trae's 3-pt production): 31 attempts per game = 33 points at 36%
2019/20 (sans Trae's 3-pt production): 24 attempts per game = 20 points at 28%

A significant margin, it's literally the difference between league-average and dead-last.
I can agree with that, as long as it's understood that Trae's current usage/inefficiency is due to necessity and growing pains and not some type of fatal flaw in his game :ld:
Too early to definitively say that, but he did play like this at college where he dominated the ball (as the adage goes: a leopard never changes its spots). We'll have to reevaluate in a few years if/when he has a better support cast and more experience. Luka has the same tendencies, except he has the size to fall back on.

:yeshrug:
 

#1 pick

The Smart Negroes
Supporter
Joined
Jul 13, 2012
Messages
76,692
Reputation
11,197
Daps
197,453
Reppin
Lamb of God
Apart from putting the ball in the hoop, Cam's shown a lot of capability in nearly every other area of the game; the parallels between his game and PG's at the same age are eerily similar. I know there's a narrative around his box score #s, but he's showed glimpses of the player he can be; if he can become even half the player PG is, y'all can take solace out of that trade.

I fukks with Hunter too, he's shown that he can be building block going forward.

2018/19 (sans Trae's 3-pt production): 31 attempts per game = 33 points at 36%
2019/20 (sans Trae's 3-pt production): 24 attempts per game = 20 points at 28%

A significant margin, it's literally the difference between league-average and dead-last.

Too early to definitively say that, but he did play like this at college where he dominated the ball (as the adage goes: a leopard never changes its spots). We'll have to reevaluate in a few years if/when he has a better support cast and more experience. Luka has the same tendencies, except he has the size to fall back on.

:yeshrug:
I actually think Luka's tendencies are worse. He has the CP3 dribble, dribble, dribble syndrome while Trae has the Marbury, I don't know when to pass or shoot syndrome. Both won't win you a title unless they change their style of play. A lot of this will have to be others stepping up and earning Trae's or Luka's respect.

I know right. It was the first question LP was asked during Training Camp (where's the shooting going to come from?). Funny, it's probably our biggest issue, good journalism by that guy. A lot of this will improve simply by hard work, experience and making sure we do not have so many injuries and suspensions moving forward. I expect Hunter and Reddish to be much better shooters down the road but it will take time. Hunter barely shot that many threes at UVA and many were wide open as he was a 4 for them. It was always going to be a WIP for shooting from range for him.

As for Cam, he got a lot of things to work on when it comes to finishing, slashing, and shooting but if there is a redeeming factor is that he shot 10 3pg per40 in college and for most of the year was averaging 10 3pg per36 with high-end variance. It's gonna come for him once he gets stronger, more shot ready, handle contact better and just play more relaxed consistently on offense.

Those two will be good, how good largely depends on how they improve. If Cam works hard and just learns from Lou Williams or Rashard Lewis, he will be a very good player. If he does that, he becomes an excellent playmaker and shoots it at an elite level, then the sky is the limit but Cam does a lot well. For Hunter, he needs to add quality volume three-point shooting and more playmaking skills and when he does, he can be a future all-star.

I don't see this baby Kawhi but he can be special if he becomes an elite three-point volume shooter and really takes a lot of effort to become more of a team defender. He is different, as someone like yourself, I know you see all wings, there aren't too many like Hunter. He does a lot of things well. You almost want to say Otto Porter Jr. like but Hunter just has a body and knows how to use it. Once he learns the NBA, I think he can really do things Porter simply couldn't do. As someone who been to over 60 Wizards games when Porter was there, I have high regard for Porter.

As someone who had LP in 2011 and went to like 10 games for the Wizards that season, I seen PG a lot as a rookie because of Danny Granger and Hibbert were some of my guys I liked at that time. I also liked PG play in SL when the games used to come online. From what I remembered about PG was he was explosive, not T-Mac or those guys but like he was explosive for a 6'9 wing. I also remember his handles being weak but when he had a straight-line drive, he had the ability to score. He really couldn't put the ball on the deck much and he wasn't much of a playmaker or slasher. He had a really good NBA frame (6'9 215) and he was strong and played strong even with his limitations. His shooting wasn't that well other than the C&S and he struggled like most with the adjustment to the NBA three-point line.

Defensively, he flashed potential to be special but overall, he was just decent for a backup wing. Didn't have the acumen defensively that you want from a starting wing.

I honestly think Cam as a rookie was much better at many areas but that's because of development. Fresno didn't develop PG defensively the way he got in the NBA while Coach K did at Duke. Cam developed a lot of these playmaking skills and PnR skills in HS, PG as a lower-tier prospect just didn't get that exposure at that point. That said, PG while not having the catalog of skills that Cam has as a rookie was a much better shooter. He had a lot fewer flaws. He was explosive while Cam wasn't and isn't. Basically, PG was more of a sure thing. He has a lot fewer flaws. A lot of his issues can be fixed with strength training, skill training, experience and work ethic.

Cam needs more than the work ethic and the weight room. He needs to develop his ability to draw fouls for a guy who plays smaller like Lou Williams. He has to become more shot ready, that could be fixed in a couple of months or it could take years. It's not as simple as skills training. He also has to learn that playing good defense is really helpful and that he isn't struggling if he goes 1/9 and 1/6 from three if he is defense is good. Sometimes I feel like he puts too much pressure on himself from his poor shooting outing and he can be hard on himself.
 
Last edited:
Top