illmatic: lyrical masterpiece or fraud?

Ultimate Warrior

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***snorts 28seconds**

Fraud, the west was batting 1000.00 at the time, the east was looking for a savior, because they was still coming off the chubb rock, kid n play dance rap, the west wasnt really on that, street knowledge, nasir came and the coast backed him, but even he couldnt take away the west coast dominance, because death row backed ruthless records lovely, than the bay mob scene was reeking havoc,.
 

intilectual recipricol

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threads like this are the reason the coli is #8

trolls are trolling the best rappers on the coli :mindblown:
explain how the album isnt lyrically trash... thats what the thread is about. I dont buy that illmatic is a good album and no one has given an explanation for it in 31 pages. Just a bunch of sheep posting like you did.
 

ISO

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:camby:

Everyone except you anti-Nas fgts think this is a lyrical masterpiece, widely accepted as the GOAT rap album. Saying dumb shyt like this should be banable

Fukk what you think :ahh:
 
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Consigliere

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Illmatic is an early 90's masterpiece. The slang is dated and there are some awkward forced internal rhymes, but overall it pushed the bar up for what was considered lyrical. Nas was an observer of hood life from his project window and the he best tracks reflect that with strong story telling:

Lifes a bytch
"I woke up early on my born day..."

One Love
The entire 3rd verse was epic storytelling and was reenacted in Belly

One of my favorite albums and influenced every great lyricist that came out after Nas. If you never put Illmatic on loop and wrote bars you probably have a shytty pen game.

In fairness to the T/S, Illmatic isn't the end all be all of rap. Reasonable Doubt is a better lyrical performance from the complexity of the rhymes to the content. KGR, Rakim, & Kane did everything Nas is doing on Illmatic first. But where Illmatic gets the props it deserves from golden age purists is it's lack of all the shiny suit era stuff thats dragged down rap. Nas holds down the entire album with only one show stealing feature from AZ and no R&B hooks. It's an entire album of a rapper kicking street knowledge and telling dope stories. Pure Hip Hop 10/10.
 

Ultimate Warrior

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:camby:

Everyone except you anti-Nas fgts think this is a lyrical masterpiece, widely accepted as the GOAT rap album

Fukk what you think :ahh:


***snorts 4seconds ***

>illmatic as a whole

The visuals. The story telling, the 2ndline type of sound.
 

AkaDemiK

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@Brooklynzson @bk Please move this stupid thread to the bushes. Visitors to the Coli aren't going to want to create accounts and begin posting on a regular basis when they see dumb shyt like this on the first page of the Booth.

This is by far the dumbest thread i have seen anywhere on the internet...by far. What a fukking idiot. Lol @ the retarded breakdowns of Nas' lyrics too.
 

USSInsiders

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mj-laughing.gif
classic thread
 

intilectual recipricol

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Illmatic is an early 90's masterpiece. The slang is dated and there are some awkward forced internal rhymes, but overall it pushed the bar up for what was considered lyrical. Nas was an observer of hood life from his project window and the he best tracks reflect that with strong story telling:

Lifes a bytch
"I woke up early on my born day..."

One Love
The entire 3rd verse was epic storytelling and was reenacted in Belly

One of my favorite albums and influenced every great lyricist that came out after Nas. If you never put Illmatic on loop and wrote bars you probably have a shytty pen game.

In fairness to the T/S, Illmatic isn't the end all be all of rap. Reasonable Doubt is a better lyrical performance from the complexity of the rhymes to the content. KGR, Rakim, & Kane did everything Nas is doing on Illmatic first. But where Illmatic gets the props it deserves from golden age purists is it's lack of all the shiny suit era stuff thats dragged down rap. Nas holds down the entire album with only one show stealing feature from AZ and no R&B hooks. It's an entire album of a rapper kicking street knowledge and telling dope stories. Pure Hip Hop 10/10.
The bolded is what I am concerned about. I have already acknowledged naS ability at story telling.
I am focusing on the actual writing for which you acknowledged is forced and awkward, not to mention that there are better, much better, lyrical performances. There is nothing on this album that looks impressive lyrically and your post despite not attempting to, shows that.

Can you point out a particular segment of pushing the bar? Show me something he did on this album that Pac aint do on 2Pacalypse now from a writing standpoint
 

Prae

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Honestly the cool thing about illmatic is some of the lyrics can be left up to interpretation. Just because they're not outright spelling something out for you doesn't mean that he's not saying anything at all. The same can be said for a lot of other poetry and rap music out there. You should look into the meaning of artistic/poetic license.

Also I think it's worth pointing out that Nas is perfectly capable of making great rap lyrics that are more straight forward, as he has done numerous times after Illmatic. Ghetto Prisoners is one that I would point to to demonstrate that.

Although some of the stuff that you posted isn't all that complex to understand what he's getting at imo.

Rappers I monkey flip 'em with the funky rhythm I be kickin - I had to look up "monkey flip" - apparently it's a wrestling or breakdancing move, but what I infer from this is he's saying his raps bend people over with their complexity, but this is certainly open to interpretation

Musician, inflictin composition
of pain I'm like Scarface sniffin cocaine
Holdin a M-16, see with the pen I'm extreme, now
Bulletholes left in my peepholes

His music / rhymes (composition) are deadly and cause pain to those he raps against. Also inflict means to cause pain, and he uses that word in the next line.
He attributes his writing/pen to that of scarface using an m-16/sniffing cocaine, again going along with the idea of inflicting pain with his volatile lyrics.
Bulletholes left in peepholes - I don't see this line being completely relevant, but still just going along with the theme of violence.


I'm suited up in street clothes
Hand me a nine and I'll defeat foes
Y'all know my steelo with or without the airplay
I keep some E&J, sittin bent up in the stairway
Or either on the corner bettin Grants with the celo champs

"Suited" has nothing to do with wearing a suit as you tried pointing out, it basically means the same as wearing. He's saying he's wearing street clothes.
Next line is pretty straight forward, give him a gun an he'll take somebody out.
Next line he's just saying you know what his style is with his rap, and it doesn't change regardless of whether or not he's getting radio play.
Then he goes on to paint a picture of him drinking beer up in a project building (that's what I picture anyways), or he says he's out betting money on dice games.


Laughin at baseheads, tryin to sell some broken amps
G-Packs get off quick, forever nikkaz talk shyt
Remeniscing about the last time the Task Force flipped

A nice play on words in this first line. Laughing at the crackheads (bassheads), selling broken amps (amps are used with guitars/bass) - but I think "amps" is referring to selling phony drugs to the addicts in this context.
G-pack - I assume this is referring to a gram of crack. Then he just throws in a senetence of people talking shyt while in the drug game.
And he goes to thinking about the last time the police got involved with him/his crew selling drugs. Basically these lines are all related to drug dealing.


nikkaz be runnin through the block shootin
Time to start the revolution, catch a body head for Houston
Once they caught us off guard, the Mac-10 was in the grass and
I ran like a cheetah with thoughts of an assassin

These lines follow the previous ones. While involved in drug dealing, someone starts shooting for whatever reason - trying to grab drugs or money etc.
He seems to attribute gun fighting/violence with starting a revolution - and many revolutions in time have been achieved through violence. Goes on to say that if he kills someone, he'll to flee to a different city.
But he says whoever initially pulled a gun out and started shooting caught him/his crew off guard, and he didn't have his gun on him, so he had to run to grab it while thinking about the shooting/killing that was about to follow.


Pick the Mac up, told brothers, "Back up," the Mac spit
Lead was hittin nikkaz one ran, I made him backflip
Heard a few chicks scream my arm shook, couldn't look
Gave another squeeze heard it click yo, my shyt is stuck
Try to cock it, it wouldn't shoot now I'm in danger
Finally pulled it back and saw three bullets caught up in the chamber

He was able to grab the mac-10, and started shooting back. Then his gun jammed up, he saw the cause was mutliple bullets jamming the chamber up. This whole section here is just referring to the whole shootout he's involved in, continuing off of the previous 2 sections above.

So now I'm jetting to the building lobby
and it was filled with children probably couldn't see as high as I be

At some point in the shootout he ran into a building, which was full of kids.

(So whatchu sayin?) It's like the game ain't the same
Got younger nikkaz pullin the triggers bringing fame to they name
and claim some corners, crews without guns are goners
In broad daylight, stickup kids, they run up on us
Fo'-fives and gauges, Macs in fact
Same nikkaz'll catch a back to back, snatchin yo' cracks in black

He seems to be speaking about his displeasure about the whole situation. Young kids shooting guns, just trying to gain some street credibility or whatever. If you don't have a gun then you're screwed because everyone else has one. Shootouts like this happen in broad daylight. These same shooters will steal your drugs in the process - and by saying "in black" seems to also infer that these shootouts/robberies happen at night too.

There was a snitch on the block gettin nikkaz knocked
So hold your stash until the coke price drop
I know this crackhead, who said she gotta smoke nice rock
And if it's good she'll bring ya customers in measuring pots, but yo
You gotta slide on a vacation
Inside information keeps large nikkaz erasin and they wives basin
It drops deep as it does in my breath
I never sleep, cause sleep is the cousin of death
Beyond the walls of intelligence, life is defined
I think of crime when I'm in a New York state of mind

Somewhat going in a different direction here, but still keeping to the same subject matter. He's saying there was a snitch in his neighborhood, so he had to stop selling and just hold onto the drugs.
Goes on to talk about crack cocaine's relation to prostitution.
Talks about how these snitches force him to take a leave of absence from drug dealing if you will.
These informants cause guys to get arrested/incarcerated while their girls end up addicted to crack.
It drops deep - seems to be saying how things go downhill in the drug game. He attributes this kind of falling out to a deep sigh of his breath - again hinting at his frustation about the whole situation of living in the projects / drug dealing / violence.
Beyond the walls of intelligence - this could probably be interpreted any number of ways. One way that I interpret it might be these young guys' lives are established outside of schools/work and instead out in the streets.
Goes on to re-iterate that the majority of the song is talking about crime/drugs in New York.
 
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Consigliere

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There is nothing on this album that looks impressive lyrically and your post despite not attempting to, shows that.

Can you point out a particular segment of pushing the bar? Show me something he did on this album that Pac aint do on 2Pacalypse now from a writing standpoint

Pac is a good comparison to Nas. They both had similar styles of rap/poetry. Look at a song like 'Trapped'

You know they got me trapped in this prison of seclusion
Happiness, living on the streets is a delusion
Even a smooth criminal one day must get caught
Shot up or shot down with the bullet that he bought
Nine millimeter kickin' thinking about what the streets do to me
Cause they never talk peace in the black community
All we know is violence, do the job in silence
Walk the city streets like a rat pack of tyrants
Too many brothers daily heading for the big pen
nikkas comin' out worse-off than when they went in

versus

'One Love'

What up kid? I know shyt is rough doing your bid
When the cops came you should have slid to my crib
fukk it black no time for looking back it's done
Plus congratulations, you know you got a son
I heard he looks like ya, why don't your lady write ya?
Told her she should visit, that's when she got hyper
Flipping, talking 'bout he acts too rough
He didn't listen he be riffing while I'm telling him stuff

The biggest difference is Nas has an extra layer of internal rhymes whereas Pac's raps were more ABC. Nobody was doing what Nas was doing in '94 and by the time other rappers caught up they were making glossier flossier music.
 

intilectual recipricol

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Pac is a good comparison to Nas. They both had similar styles of rap/poetry. Look at a song like

The biggest difference is Nas has an extra layer of internal rhymes whereas Pac's raps were more ABC. Nobody was doing what Nas was doing in '94 and by the time other rappers caught up they were making glossier flossier music.
If I grant you that for the sake of discussion (I dont feel like going through the songs cuz the game is on) we still have to address that those rhymes as you stated are forced and awkward which is actually worse than not having them at all. Then when you put it into the context that I was listening to Twista in '94 this discussion about naS pushing that bar in '94 becomes silly.



his writing so much better than naS' in 94 using any metric. So illmatic just wasnt impressive
 

intilectual recipricol

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Honestly the cool thing about illmatic is some of the lyrics can be left up to interpretation. Just because they're not outright spelling something out for you doesn't mean that he's not saying anything at all. The same can be said for a lot of other poetry and rap music out there. You should look into the meaning of artistic/poetic license.

Also I think it's worth pointing out that Nas is perfectly capable of making great rap lyrics that are more straight forward, as he has done numerous times after Illmatic. Ghetto Prisoners is one that I would point to to demonstrate that.

Although some of the stuff that you posted isn't all that complex to understand what he's getting at imo.
Youre absolutely right, it wasnt complex at all or impressive or different from what was being done at the time. he doesnt spell anything out because hes not saying anything which is my point. he is spitting filler after filler. The fact that youre making up (or interpreting) what you want it to say shows that he is not actually writing or saying it. Youre giving naS credit for your own imagination. I refuse to. I give credit for people doing impressive things.
 

Prae

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Youre absolutely right, it wasnt complex at all or impressive or different from what was being done at the time. he doesnt spell anything out because hes not saying anything which is my point. he is spitting filler after filler. The fact that youre making up (or interpreting) what you want it to say shows that he is not actually writing or saying it. Youre giving naS credit for your own imagination. I refuse to. I give credit for people doing impressive things.

Lol nobody at the time of Illmatic was spitting the multis/complex rhyme schemes and metaphors or just overall delivery like Nas was. So I don't know where you're getting the idea that it wasn't complex or different from what was already being done.

And how is he not saying anything? He's talking about violence, drug dealing, making money, and his environment much like an album like Reasonable Doubt (or any other number of rap albums) is, just presented in a vastly different way. What do you expect him to be rapping about?

But seriously if you think he's not saying anything AT ALL, then maybe you should just stick to coloring books, you should have no problem understanding those.
 

intilectual recipricol

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Lol nobody at the time of Illmatic was spitting the multis/complex rhyme schemes and metaphors like Nas was. So I don't know where you're getting the idea that it wasn't complex or different from what was already being done.

And how is he not saying anything? He's talking about violence, drug dealing, making money, and his environment much like an album like Reasonable Doubt (or any other number of rap albums) is, just presented in a vastly different way. What do you expect him to be rapping about?

But seriously if you think he's not saying anything AT ALL, then maybe you should just stick to coloring books, you should have no problem understanding those.
I guess youre just going to ignore that Twista verse from 94 I posted.
 

Prae

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Yea I did ignore that lol. I will agree he is using a similarly complex rhyme scheme and multis, and he does have some nice metaphors in there too. So you may be right, Nas wasn't 100% unique at that time with what he was doing. That still doesn't take away from the impressiveness of Nas' album - and I think Nas' delivery and overall music just sounds better. Plus that song isn't saying anything more than any Nas song. Although that album by Twista did come out after Illmatic (6 months later), and I'm not hearing quite the same complexity on his first album.
 
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