illmatic: lyrical masterpiece or fraud?

[intilectual recipricol]

no one said it was some amazing line. you said it was trash, garbage, and...




"hand me a nine and I'll defeat foes" (don't ask me how )

youre getting there slowly even if I have to walk you through it...

no, you didnt say the line was amazing, its not. It is, however, a typical line on the album... just like the "hand me a nine and i'll defeat foes" line, typical on the album. Nothing spectacular about it. If Pac said the same thing, and he has many similar lines, then you nor anyone else would call it even a good line (I wouldnt either).

So what we have is a bunch of lines stacked on top of each other verse after verse, song after song on illmatic that no one is claiming is amazing, yet stans like you swear up and down that the album is a lyrical masterpiece.

THATS THE fukkIN PROBLEM.

the album is a collection of "blah" lines that without any redeeming qualities I would call garbage. For instance Pac has the line

"Gimme my money in stacks and lace my bytches with dime figures, real nikkaz fingers on nickel plated nine triggers"

Flowed nice, but garbage line on a garbage song (for Pac standards) because when I listen to Pac I'm not lookin necessarily for multis or metaphors or double/triple entendres... I'm lookin for that real shyt, that I Aint Mad At Cha, that "Papaz Song", that "Keep Ya Head Up" etc and the line I quoted is just a generic ass money bytches and guns line that flowed well. There was nothing special about it and Waka Flocka could easily duplicate the line.

If Pac albums were all "U Cant C Me's" song after song, I wouldnt fukc wit that nicca.

Now lets look at Lupe's BMF freestyle where throughout the 1st half of the song he's weaving like 4 themes throughout the shyt simultaneously... if you find naS or Pac.... or Waka Flocka doin that shyt then you need to alert me. That is lyricism.

Not "hand me a nine and I'll defeat foes"

 

[daze23]

youre getting there slowly even if I have to walk you through it...

no, you didnt say the line was amazing, its not. It is, however, a typical line on the album... just like the "hand me a nine and i'll defeat foes" line, typical on the album. Nothing spectacular about it. If Pac said the same thing, and he has many similar lines, then you nor anyone else would call it even a good line (I wouldnt either).

So what we have is a bunch of lines stacked on top of each other verse after verse, song after song on illmatic that no one is claiming is amazing, yet stans like you swear up and down that the album is a lyrical masterpiece.

THATS THE fukkIN PROBLEM.

the album is a collection of "blah" lines that without any redeeming qualities I would call garbage. For instance Pac has the line

"Gimme my money in stacks and lace my bytches with dime figures, real nikkaz fingers on nickel plated nine triggers"

Flowed nice, but garbage line on a garbage song (for Pac standards) because when I listen to Pac I'm not lookin necessarily for multis or metaphors or double/triple entendres... I'm lookin for that real shyt, that I Aint Mad At Cha, that "Papaz Song", that "Keep Ya Head Up" etc and the line I quoted is just a generic ass money bytches and guns line that flowed well. There was nothing special about it and Waka Flocka could easily duplicate the line.

If Pac albums were all "U Cant C Me's" song after song, I wouldnt fukc wit that nicca.

Now lets look at Lupe's BMF freestyle where throughout the 1st half of the song he's weaving like 4 themes throughout the shyt simultaneously... if you find naS or Pac.... or Waka Flocka doin that shyt then you need to alert me. That is lyricism.

Not "hand me a nine and I'll defeat foes"

scust @ you glazing over how beautifully the "hand me a nine.." line fit into the convo

the only thing you're walking me through is how you prefer more straightforward songs. I think that has already been noted though

how do you feel about Rakim?

 

[intilectual recipricol]

scust @ you glazing over how beautifully the "hand me a nine.." line fit into the convo

the only thing you're walking me through is how you prefer more straightforward songs. I think that has already been noted though

how do you feel about Rakim?

Theres nothing beautiful about that weak ass shyt
fukk are you on? If waka said that shyt you laugh at it... matter of fact thats a typical line for a garbaage ass gangsta rapper.

Rakim compared to what? His contemporaries? Hes better than most. Compared to nikkaz today hes garbo. The average fabo verse shyts on Ra... but Ra's spot is solidified due to his era. But linin up 21 emcees by the 7s doesnt impress me at all

 

[mobbinfms]

No, the line is garbage. It doesnt matter that he was referencing anything. If you cant see it then it says more about you than anything. I already gave you A reason the line is dumb as fukc.

Again, it doesnt make sense, on top of that its pedestrian as hell, basically a worthless throw away bar. Even worse is its sandwiched between throw away bars on a throw away verse, in a throw away song, on a throw away album.

So is it garbage? Or is it pedestrian or throwaway, I.e average? You are saying two very different things, in the same post.

Also, the "if you can't see it, there's something wrong with you" argument is weak as hell. This is all your opinion and nothing more. You're not impressed by it? Fine. That's your opinion. Tell me what is objectively bad about the line?

 

[daze23]

Theres notbi.g beautiful about that weak ass shyt
fukk are you on? If waka said that shyt you laugh at it... matter of fact thats a typical line for a garbaage ass gangsta rapper.

no, just the fact that it was the next line in NY State of Mind, and it worked as a response to the Pac quote

Rakim compared to what? His contemporaries? Hes better than most. Compared to nikkaz today hes garbo. The average fabo verse shyts on Ra... but Ra's spot is solidified due to his era. But linin up 21 emcees by the 7s doesnt impress me at all

fabo lives in the house Rakim built. I can't get away from that. fabo is also too annoyingly arrogant for my tastes, but I understand that's a nuanced opinion

I'm also old, so some of this after the fact shyt gets lost on me. call that nostalgia or whatever, but I also think the order of events is important

 

[intilectual recipricol]

no, just the fact that it was the next line in NY State of Mind, and it worked as a response to the Pac quote



fabo lives in the house Rakim built. I can't get away from that. fabo is also too annoyingly arrogant for my tastes, but I understand that's a nuanced opinion

I'm also old, so some of this after the fact shyt gets lost on me. call that nostalgia or whatever, but I also think the order of events is important

Exactly... naS stans dont actually care about lyricism. you dont know the 1st thing about lyricism. you just define "lyricism" as whatever naS says. if naS and another bum ass rapper have the exact same line, to you, when naS says it its dope but when the other garbage nicca says it then its trash. You provin my point.

As for the fabo shyt. I'm not a fan either, but order of events means very little if we looking at the full picture. Using your frame of thinking the nicca that invented basketball was better than Jordan.

yall naS stans are somethin else man... yall say anything to protect dude no matter how absurd it is.

 

[daze23]

James Naismith is garbage

that's fuct up

413 represent

 

[itzmurda]

Havent read thread so i dont know if its been brought up

But if you didn't hear this in 94, then I expect shyt like was said in OP

Never judge the past using todays standards

 

[intilectual recipricol]

So is it garbage? Or is it pedestrian or throwaway, I.e average? You are saying two very different things, in the same post.

thats all the same... not different at all. Point is that its not good.

Both Waka Flocka and Baby are terrible rappers I see no need in differentiating between their respective levels of trash. Their bars are pedestrian, garbage, average, throwawy...

the average rapper is a throwaway rapper

 

[Niqqa You Gay]

Y'all lost for still going at it with this hatin negro

 

[intilectual recipricol]

Y'all lost for still going at it with this hatin negro

lets discuss illmatic...

what lines do you find amazing?

 

[ChieferSutherland]

You think you getting girls now because of your daps? Fakkit.

 

[Niqqa You Gay]

lets discuss illmatic...

what lines do you find amazing?

Who cares?
You wanna kiss Nas on his hot mouf, but you can't get to it and it frustrates you. Just say that

 

[intilectual recipricol]

Who cares?
You wanna kiss Nas on his hot mouf, but you can't get to it and it frustrates you. Just say that

naS stans saty sayin the gayest shyt... yall switch like faggats...

the thread is about illmatic, if you didnt click it to discuss what are you doing?

 

[mobbinfms]

thats all the same... not different at all. Point is that its not good.

Both Waka Flocka and Baby are terrible rappers I see no need in differentiating between their respective levels of trash. Their bars are pedestrian, garbage, average, throwawy...

the average rapper is a throwaway rapper

What about the rest of that post? Do you have any criticisms that aren't just your opinion?