illmatic: lyrical masterpiece or fraud?

[bigbadbossup2012]

Biggie sold... Method Man did... Wu Tang did... LL Cool J did... Redman was going gold in a few months... basically you couldnt be more wrong.

Mufukcaz just did not give a fukc about illmatic. the facts bear this.

Gotta salute you for making this thread. This is real shyt. I wish i'd had the energy to break it down like that. They'll never accept reality. But i respect you riding for honest history.

 

[Foxmulder]

Hodor.Hodor?

 

[mobbinfms]

Also - you are wrong about East Coast artists moving units back then. Going Gold was the goal back then. BIG was the first to really sell in a few years

This was my original point. Ready to Die dropped in September of 1994 - so I'm talking about east coast sales a few years before September of 1994. Going back to 1991 let's say.

You attempted to dispute my claim by listing albums that were released after Ready To Die or many years before it.

Remember that Illmatic dropped in April of 1994.

Biggie dropped after Nas. Wu took a very long time to go Plat with 36. Sales didn't pick up until after Cream. Wu is a terrible example for your argument because Rae himself said his goal was to go gold on 36!

Method dropped after Biggie and therefor after Nas.

LL sold in 1990 with Mama Said. I recall that 14 shots was a commercial failure - he only went gold. This was in 1993.

Redman went Gold almost a year after his first joint dropped.

Note here how I accurately analyze the sales figures of every one of your examples, before you went and pulled the numbers.

dog your research absolutely sucked...
Enter the Wu, Plat
Redman was going gold in mere months
Method Man Tical, plat
LL plat in 1990

youre proving my point though... LL going gold was a commercial failure... like illmatic. no one gave a fukc about that album, as you just showed.

Note here that you claim Red went gold in "mere months".

The Meth and LL albums are outside the parameters of my original point - but you ignore that.

Also - you claim Wu went Plat (even though I had already acknowledged same) and you ignore my claim that it took them a long time to go Plat.

METHOD MAN TICAL NOVEMBER 08, 1994 JULY 13, 1995 DEF JAM STANDARD PLATINUM ALBUM SOLO

REDMAN WHUT? THE ALBUM OCTOBER 09, 1992 JUNE 11, 1993 CHAOS/COLUMBIA STANDARD GOLD ALBUM SOLO

REDMAN DARE IZ A DARKSIDE NOVEMBER 22, 1994 JANUARY 27, 1995 RUSH ASSOCIATED LABELS STANDARD GOLD ALBUM SOLO

CLAN ENTER THE WU-TANG (36 CHAMBERS) NOVEMBER 09, 1993 MAY 15, 1995 RCA STANDARD PLATINUM ALBUM GROUP

L.L. COOL J WALKING WITH A PANTHER JUNE 09, 1989 AUGUST 09, 1989 COLUMBIA STANDARD PLATINUM ALBUM SOLO

L.L. COOL J MAMA SAID KNOCK YOU OUT SEPTEMBER 14, 1990 JANUARY 22, 1991 DEF JAM STANDARD PLATINUM ALBUM SOLO

L.L. COOL J HEY LOVER OCTOBER 31, 1995 JANUARY 05, 1996 RUSH ASSOCIATED LABELS STANDARD PLATINUM SINGLE SOLO

L.L. COOL J 14 SHOTS TO THE DOME MARCH 26, 1993 JUNE 02, 1993 DEF JAM STANDARD GOLD ALBUM SOLO

NAS ILLMATIC APRIL 19, 1994 JANUARY 17, 1996 COLUMBIA STANDARD GOLD ALBUM SOLO

NAS ILLMATIC APRIL 19, 1994 DECEMBER 11, 2001 COLUMBIA STANDARD PLATINUM ALBUM SOLO

TWO YEARS TO GO GOLD, SEVEN YEARS TO GO PLAT

no one gave a fukc about the album

And here we have the actual numbers. Note that Tical dropped seven months after Illmatic and two months after Big.

Note that Red went Gold with his first album approximately 9 months after it released. Not the "mere months" that you claimed - but the "almost a year" that I did.

Reds se one album was released a few weeks after Tical and thus outside the parameters.

36 went Plat 1.5 years after its release. Exactly what I said. Longer than I originally thought to be honest.

Then you list LL albums from 1989 and 1990. And a single from 1995. I'll be fair and give you Mama. It was released about 3.5 years before Illmatic - but you can have it.

So - I've led you through how your numbers support my argument and how my argument is accurate. I await your acknowledgement that I'm right as well as your apology.

 

[intilectual recipricol]

This was my original point. Ready to Die dropped in September of 1994 - so I'm talking about east coast sales a few years before September of 1994. Going back to 1991 let's say.

You attempted to dispute my claim by listing albums that were released after Ready To Die or many years before it.

Remember that Illmatic dropped in April of 1994.



Note here how I accurately analyze the sales figures of every one of your examples, before you went and pulled the numbers.



Note here that you claim Red went gold in "mere months".

The Meth and LL albums are outside the parameters of my original point - but you ignore that.

Also - you claim Wu went Plat (even though I had already acknowledged same) and you ignore my claim that it took them a long time to go Plat.



And here we have the actual numbers. Note that Tical dropped seven months after Illmatic and two months after Big.

Note that Red went Gold with his first album approximately 9 months after it released. Not the "mere months" that you claimed - but the "almost a year" that I did.

Reds se one album was released a few weeks after Tical and thus outside the parameters.

36 went Plat 1.5 years after its release. Exactly what I said. Longer than I originally thought to be honest.

Then you list LL albums from 1989 and 1990. And a single from 1995. I'll be fair and give you Mama. It was released about 3.5 years before Illmatic - but you can have it.

So - I've led you through how your numbers support my argument and how my argument is accurate. I await your acknowledgement that I'm right as well as your apology.

I'm posting East Coast albums within that era that sold. and frankly those are the only artists I even looked up and EVERY one of them sold better than illmatic. ALL of them. Biggie selling didnt make people think it was okay to buy EC albums again... kijnda reasoning is that? TBH im helping you out by limiting my search to EC albums because niccaz were sellin units throughout the 90's... only illmatic didnt sell.

Your standome wont let you see it though. Ask yourself, what was making niccaz go to the store and pick up BONE, Snoop, Dre, Meth, Wu, Pac, etc... but to leave naS highly praised (in magazines) shyt sittin lonely on the shelf

2 PAC STRICTLY 4 MY N.I.G.G.A.Z. FEBRUARY 01, 1993 SEPTEMBER 24, 1993 INTERSCOPE STANDARD GOLD ALBUM SOLO

2 PAC STRICTLY 4 MY N.I.G.G.A.Z. FEBRUARY 01, 1993 APRIL 19, 1995 INTERSCOPE STANDARD PLATINUM ALBUM SOLO

BONE THUGS 'N HARMONY CREEPIN' ON AH COME UP JUNE 21, 1994 SEPTEMBER 21, 1994 RUTHLESS STANDARD PLATINUM SHORTFORMALBUM SOLO

BONE THUGS 'N HARMONY E. 1999 ETERNAL JULY 21, 1995 OCTOBER 02, 1995 RELATIVITY STANDARD PLATINUM ALBUM SOLO

8 BALL & MJG ON TOP OF THE WORLD OCTOBER 01, 1995 JANUARY 29, 1996 SUAVE HOUSE/RELATIVITY STANDARD GOLD ALBUM SOLO

DO OR DIE PICTURE THIS SEPTEMBER 03, 1996 NOVEMBER 04, 1996 RAP-A-LOT STANDARD GOLD ALBUM GROUP

ICE CUBE AMERIKKKA'S MOST WANTED MAY 18, 1990 AUGUST 09, 1990 PRIORITY STANDARD GOLD ALBUM SOLO

ICE CUBE KILL AT WILL NOVEMBER 08, 1990 FEBRUARY 04, 1991 PRIORITY STANDARD GOLD SHORTFORMALBUM SOLO

ICE CUBE DEATH CERTIFICATE OCTOBER 21, 1991 DECEMBER 20, 1991 PRIORITY STANDARD PLATINUM ALBUM SOLO


MORE ICE CUBE AMERIKKKA'S MOST WANTED MAY 18, 1990 SEPTEMBER 06, 1991 PRIORITY STANDARD PLATINUM ALBUM SOLO

ICE CUBE THE PREDATOR NOVEMBER 04, 1992 JANUARY 07, 1993 PRIORITY STANDARD PLATINUM ALBUM SOLO

THE EARLY TO MID 90's PUSHED UNITS, ILLMATIC SAT ON THE SHELF

no one gave a fukc about it.

 

[Whitty Hutton]

I don't see why you continue to entertain this nikka and do all this research, because his agenda is never going to change. Who cares how he feels about Nas or Illmatic? Honestly?

 

[mobbinfms]

I'm posting East Coast albums within that era that sold. and frankly those are the only artists I even looked up and EVERY one of them sold better than illmatic. ALL of them. Biggie selling didnt make people think it was okay to buy EC albums again... kijnda reasoning is that? TBH im helping you out by limiting my search to EC albums because niccaz were sellin units throughout the 90's... only illmatic didnt sell.

Your standome wont let you see it though. Ask yourself, what was making niccaz go to the store and pick up BONE, Snoop, Dre, Meth, Wu, Pac, etc... but to leave naS highly praised (in magazines) shyt sittin lonely on the shelf

2 PAC STRICTLY 4 MY N.I.G.G.A.Z. FEBRUARY 01, 1993 SEPTEMBER 24, 1993 INTERSCOPE STANDARD GOLD ALBUM SOLO

2 PAC STRICTLY 4 MY N.I.G.G.A.Z. FEBRUARY 01, 1993 APRIL 19, 1995 INTERSCOPE STANDARD PLATINUM ALBUM SOLO

BONE THUGS 'N HARMONY CREEPIN' ON AH COME UP JUNE 21, 1994 SEPTEMBER 21, 1994 RUTHLESS STANDARD PLATINUM SHORTFORMALBUM SOLO

BONE THUGS 'N HARMONY E. 1999 ETERNAL JULY 21, 1995 OCTOBER 02, 1995 RELATIVITY STANDARD PLATINUM ALBUM SOLO

8 BALL & MJG ON TOP OF THE WORLD OCTOBER 01, 1995 JANUARY 29, 1996 SUAVE HOUSE/RELATIVITY STANDARD GOLD ALBUM SOLO

DO OR DIE PICTURE THIS SEPTEMBER 03, 1996 NOVEMBER 04, 1996 RAP-A-LOT STANDARD GOLD ALBUM GROUP

ICE CUBE AMERIKKKA'S MOST WANTED MAY 18, 1990 AUGUST 09, 1990 PRIORITY STANDARD GOLD ALBUM SOLO

ICE CUBE KILL AT WILL NOVEMBER 08, 1990 FEBRUARY 04, 1991 PRIORITY STANDARD GOLD SHORTFORMALBUM SOLO

ICE CUBE DEATH CERTIFICATE OCTOBER 21, 1991 DECEMBER 20, 1991 PRIORITY STANDARD PLATINUM ALBUM SOLO


MORE ICE CUBE AMERIKKKA'S MOST WANTED MAY 18, 1990 SEPTEMBER 06, 1991 PRIORITY STANDARD PLATINUM ALBUM SOLO

ICE CUBE THE PREDATOR NOVEMBER 04, 1992 JANUARY 07, 1993 PRIORITY STANDARD PLATINUM ALBUM SOLO

THE EARLY TO MID 90's PUSHED UNITS, ILLMATIC SAT ON THE SHELF

no one gave a fukc about it.

We're talking about East Coast albums. You already admitted there was a sales drought for them. Thanks for posting the sales of all those West/South/Midwest albums, that's interesting to see when they were certified - but its irrelevant to the discussion.

You posted two EC albums that sold before Ready to Die - one went gold after 9 months and the other went Plat after 1.5 years. In fairness - I'll bet EPMD was going gold/plat pre RTD as well. Look it up for us. Or tell me where you are going to get these nubmers?

This supports my point that East Coast artists didn't sell. Nas had a very distinct EC sound and his album lacked the mainstream crossover singles that RTD had. Wu was an anomaly. The exception that proves the rule.
Big was the first to break through - and then the East lost that distinct sound which led to higher records sales. Remember Meth had that huge Bad Boy remix as well.

You're still ducking the fact that Illmatic was heavily bootlegged. Check this out:
10 Things You Didn't Know About Nas' "Illmatic" | Complex

If no one gave a fukk about it - why were people bootlegging it in massive numbers?

Also - you still won't admit that you are misquoting the "Castro" line - this is like the fourth time I've brought this up.

Finally - you have no authority to call anyone a stan.

 

[mobbinfms]

I don't see why you continue to entertain this nikka and do all this research, because his agenda is never going to change. Who cares how he feels about Nas or Illmatic? Honestly?

You're right - I'm getting close to putting him on ignore. I enjoy arguing - and I'm having a field day with him - but it is frustrating when the person you are arguing with isn't reasonable and won't admit basic points.

 

[JasonSJackson]

8 pages

 

[yesiambowling]

Mention Gnarz name and this cum gurgling fakkit TS gets a boner. This isn't an arguement; just mental masturbation for IR.

 

[intilectual recipricol]

Happy fillermatic day

 

[daze23]

It's the same as in how people think some poetry is overrated if it's just tossing phrases on the page that may mean something in the abstract but don't build up and tie together neatly. He doesn't appreciate that songs like Memory Lane are basically free verse.

that's really what you hear in Memory Lane?

 

[ManBearPig]

There was a snitch on the block gettin nikkaz knocked
So hold your stash until the coke price drop
I know this crackhead, who said she gotta smoke nice rock
And if it's good she'll bring ya customers in measuring pots, but yo
You gotta slide on a vacation
Inside information keeps large nikkaz erasin and they wives basin
It drops deep as it does in my breath
I never sleep, cause sleep is the cousin of death
Beyond the walls of intelligence, life is defined
I think of crime when I'm in a New York state of mind

OP a stupid moron for thinking these bars aren't anything special

i'm done

 

[ManBearPig]

The problem isn't with Nas. The problem is you're a fukkin retard.

 

[LandryFieldsDad]

so what are you saying??
illmatic as an album has no merit whatsoever??

 

[ManBearPig]

Pac calls naS a weak rapper

Nas - VH1 Behind the Music 2pac Part - YouTube

you're trolling pretty much.

i'm sure u aint stupid enough to not know that Pac was talking down on Nas' character and not his skillset.