illmatic: lyrical masterpiece or fraud?

[intilectual recipricol]

Record sales? What is the minimum number of records you need to sell to be a classic because the people said so? Also - are you accounting for people who had bootlegs/dubbed tapes? What's the total number with that?

So why did the magazines pick such an awful lyricist to hype up as the second coming of lyricism? Why not Fat Joe? AG? Why was there this widespread conspiracy to prop up Nas? How did the magazines benefit?

East Coast media was like that back then, thats why the beef with the West happened. I'm sure theres a thread on the whole thing here somewhere. the East was looking for a savior... Lil Kim also got 5 mics (a better rating than MATW). Who knows why they picked such an aweful lyricist...... I cant call it. Whats in it for them? Youre actin like the whole magazine was about naS... theyre objective is to sell mags, nothing else.

Bootlegging wasnt NEARLY as big then as it was today. Not even close. And the nicca pushes more units today than illmatic did early on. I cannot stress enough that no one had the shyt.

 

[Ghostdog36]

This is the worst thread I've ever seen.

 

[mobbinfms]

East Coast media was like that back then, thats why the beef with the West happened. I'm sure theres a thread on the whole thing here somewhere. the East was looking for a savior... Lil Kim also got 5 mics (a better rating than MATW). Who knows why they picked such an aweful lyricist...... I cant call it. Whats in it for them? Youre actin like the whole magazine was about naS... theyre objective is to sell mags, nothing else.

Bootlegging wasnt NEARLY as big then as it was today. Not even close. And the nicca pushes more units today than illmatic did early on. I cannot stress enough that no one had the shyt.

That doesn't make any sense. If the objective was to sell mags or to bolster the East, why wouldn't all East Coast artists have received five mics? Or at least 5-10 so it still appeared objective. If the objective was to sell mags, why not annoint a talented lyricist as the second coming? Or someone with more obvious commercial appeal?

No. None of this makes any sense. Do you think it's possible that you're wrong about Illmatic? Doesn't that make a lot more sense? That they heralded him as the second coming be ause he actually had the lyrics?

And bootlegging was big back then. Have you heard straighten it out by Pete and CL? Also - read up on Brand Nubian's first album (which was also heavily bootlegged). I agree with you that the Internet has taken it to a whole other level.

 

[intilectual recipricol]

That doesn't make any sense. If the objective was to sell mags or to bolster the East, why wouldn't all East Coast artists have received five mics? Or at least 5-10 so it still appeared objective. If the objective was to sell mags, why not annoint a talented lyricist as the second coming? Or someone with more obvious commercial appeal?

No. None of this makes any sense. Do you think it's possible that you're wrong about Illmatic? Doesn't that make a lot more sense? That they heralded him as the second coming be ause he actually had the lyrics?

And bootlegging was big back then. Have you heard straighten it out by Pete and CL? Also - read up on Brand Nubian's first album (which was also heavily bootlegged). I agree with you that the Internet has taken it to a whole other level.

I didnt say they gave mics to boost sales... I said what theyre objective was as a magazine. And giving accurate ratings was not mentioned, and I gave a further example of them giving fukcin Lil Kim 5 mics. I am making perfect sense. Its likely that your listening to incoherent rap has damaged your ability to comprehend coherent statements.

Bootlegging was not nearly as big then as now. theres no way around it. niccaz pushed units back then, illmatic did not.

 

[mobbinfms]

I didnt say they gave mics to boost sales... I said what theyre objective was as a magazine. And giving accurate ratings was not mentioned, and I gave a further example of them giving fukcin Lil Kim 5 mics. I am making perfect sense. Its likely that your listening to incoherent rap has damaged your ability to comprehend coherent statements.

Bootlegging was not nearly as big then as now. theres no way around it. niccaz pushed units back then, illmatic did not.

I didn't say they gave mics to boost sales either. You said there objective was to sell mags. How was giving an awful lyricist with little commercial appeal 5 mics and anointing him the second coming of lyricism going to help sell mags? Why Nas over any other rapper? It makes no sense.

Again - you being wrong about Illmatic makes a lot more sense than your theory.

Lil Kim was 11 years later. At that point the mag was giving 5 to a lot of questionable releases. Nas was the first to get 5 in three years (no one else got it for three more years). Also - wasn't there a rumor that she had a relationship with the editor?

Also - you are wrong about East Coast artists moving units back then. Going Gold was the goal back then. BIG was the first to really sell in a few years. And bootlegging was rampant in the east back then. Again - can you tell me how many people had the bootleg? Or a dubbed tape? You can't - so your reliance on sales is an incomplete picture.

 

[intilectual recipricol]

I didn't say they gave mics to boost sales either. You said there objective was to sell mags. How was giving an awful lyricist with little commercial appeal 5 mics and anointing him the second coming of lyricism going to help sell mags? Why Nas over any other rapper? It makes no sense.

Again - you being wrong about Illmatic makes a lot more sense than your theory.

Lil Kim was 11 years later. At that point the mag was giving 5 to a lot of questionable releases. Nas was the first to get 5 in three years (no one else got it for three more years). Also - wasn't there a rumor that she had a relationship with the editor?

Also - you are wrong about East Coast artists moving units back then. Going Gold was the goal back then. BIG was the first to really sell in a few years. And bootlegging was rampant in the east back then. Again - can you tell me how many people had the bootleg? Or a dubbed tape? You can't - so your reliance on sales is an incomplete picture.

Biggie sold... Method Man did... Wu Tang did... LL Cool J did... Redman was going gold in a few months... basically you couldnt be more wrong.

Mufukcaz just did not give a fukc about illmatic. the facts bear this.

 

[mobbinfms]

Biggie sold... Method Man did... Wu Tang did... LL Cool J did... Redman was going gold in a few months... basically you couldnt be more wrong.

Mufukcaz just did not give a fukc about illmatic. the facts bear this.

Biggie dropped after Nas. Wu took a very long time to go Plat with 36. Sales didn't pick up until after Cream. Wu is a terrible example for your argument because Rae himself said his goal was to go gold on 36!

Method dropped after Biggie and therefor after Nas.

LL sold in 1990 with Mama Said. I recall that 14 shots was a commercial failure - he only went gold. This was in 1993.

Redman went Gold almost a year after his first joint dropped.

Again - gold was the goal for East Coast artists.

Factually - every single one of your examples was wrong.

Your argument for people not knowing about Illmatic is clearly premised on your inaccurate view of what East Coast artists were selling back then.

As usual - you're just making up shyt to support your crackpot theories.

 

[intilectual recipricol]

Biggie dropped after Nas. Wu took a very long time to go Plat with 36. Sales didn't pick up until after Cream. Wu is a terrible example for your argument because Rae himself said his goal was to go gold on 36!

Method dropped after Biggie and therefor after Nas.

LL sold in 1990 with Mama Said. I recall that 14 shots was a commercial failure - he only went gold. This was in 1993.

Redman went Gold almost a year after his first joint dropped.

Again - gold was the goal for East Coast artists.

Factually - every single one of your examples was wrong.

Your argument for people not knowing about Illmatic is clearly premised on your inaccurate view of what East Coast artists were selling back then.

As usual - you're just making up shyt to support your crackpot theories.

dog your research absolutely sucked...
Enter the Wu, Plat
Redman was going gold in mere months
Method Man Tical, plat
LL plat in 1990

youre proving my point though... LL going gold was a commercial failure... like illmatic. no one gave a fukc about that album, as you just showed.

 

[mobbinfms]

dog your research absolutely sucked...
Enter the Wu, Plat
Redman was going gold in mere months
Method Man Tical, plat
LL plat in 1990

youre proving my point though... LL going gold was a commercial failure... like illmatic. no one gave a fukc about that album, as you just showed.

Source for when 36 went plat?
Source for Redman going gold in mere months?

Source for Ticak releasing before Illmatic and somehow being relevant to your point?

Read my post again. I said Big was the first to sell in a few years.

LL went plat 4 years before Illmatic dropped.

The east was in a sales drought. Do your research. You don't know what you're talking about.

 

[intilectual recipricol]

Source for when 36 went plat?
Source for Redman going gold in mere months?

Source for Ticak releasing before Illmatic and somehow being relevant to your point?

Read my post again. I said Big was the first to sell in a few years.

LL went plat 4 years before Illmatic dropped.

The east was in a sales drought. Do your research. You don't know what you're talking about.

they were in a fukcin drought because they sucked. as did illmatic. you keep proving the fukcin point. Muthafukcaz in that era were selling IF THEY DIDNT SUCK ASS. Even Redman was going gold relatively quickly... it took 7 YEARS FOR ILLMATIC TO GO PLAT WITH HELP FROM JIGGA MAKING THAT NICCA FAMOUS

 

[blazn101]

JaY fans know more about Nas, and Nas fans seem to know more about Jay

 

[mobbinfms]

they were in a fukcin drought because they sucked. as did illmatic. you keep proving the fukcin point. Muthafukcaz in that era were selling IF THEY DIDNT SUCK ASS. Even Redman was going gold relatively quickly... it took 7 YEARS FOR ILLMATIC TO GO PLAT WITH HELP FROM JIGGA MAKING THAT NICCA FAMOUS

Okay - so getting back to your original point then, no one heard or gave a shyt about the entire east coast then?

That was your original point for Illmatic right?

You see where your stupid ideas lead you?

Also - you're still ducking the Castro question and check Redmans wiki page for when he went gold.

 

[intilectual recipricol]

METHOD MAN TICAL NOVEMBER 08, 1994 JULY 13, 1995 DEF JAM STANDARD PLATINUM ALBUM SOLO

REDMAN WHUT? THE ALBUM OCTOBER 09, 1992 JUNE 11, 1993 CHAOS/COLUMBIA STANDARD GOLD ALBUM SOLO

REDMAN DARE IZ A DARKSIDE NOVEMBER 22, 1994 JANUARY 27, 1995 RUSH ASSOCIATED LABELS STANDARD GOLD ALBUM SOLO

CLAN ENTER THE WU-TANG (36 CHAMBERS) NOVEMBER 09, 1993 MAY 15, 1995 RCA STANDARD PLATINUM ALBUM GROUP

L.L. COOL J WALKING WITH A PANTHER JUNE 09, 1989 AUGUST 09, 1989 COLUMBIA STANDARD PLATINUM ALBUM SOLO

L.L. COOL J MAMA SAID KNOCK YOU OUT SEPTEMBER 14, 1990 JANUARY 22, 1991 DEF JAM STANDARD PLATINUM ALBUM SOLO

L.L. COOL J HEY LOVER OCTOBER 31, 1995 JANUARY 05, 1996 RUSH ASSOCIATED LABELS STANDARD PLATINUM SINGLE SOLO

L.L. COOL J 14 SHOTS TO THE DOME MARCH 26, 1993 JUNE 02, 1993 DEF JAM STANDARD GOLD ALBUM SOLO

NAS ILLMATIC APRIL 19, 1994 JANUARY 17, 1996 COLUMBIA STANDARD GOLD ALBUM SOLO

NAS ILLMATIC APRIL 19, 1994 DECEMBER 11, 2001 COLUMBIA STANDARD PLATINUM ALBUM SOLO

TWO YEARS TO GO GOLD, SEVEN YEARS TO GO PLAT

no one gave a fukc about the album

 

[blackslash]

JaY fans know more about Nas, and Nas fans seem to know more about Jay

U know damn well thats not true

 

[blazn101]

U know damn well thats not true

You know more about Nas than any stan