IF YOU DON'T BELIEVE IN RELIGION...

[Julius Skrrvin]

I never get this "especially if you are Jewish/Muslim/Christian" thing. Do Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism, Daoism, etc advocate or not warn against killing? You could even argue some of those religions are much more vehement about nonviolence than the big abrahamic three.

...

 

[nineteeneightysix]

You are trying to sound smart but you are putting your foot in your mouth

Dude, I am not trying to sound anything...

These are just thoughts that run through my head on a daily basis...I am posting them so people can either agree with me and make me feel good about myself, or people can pick them apart and show me the error in my thinking, so I can learn and gain a different perspective...

That's my only agenda on this forum...

If you think there are holes in my thinking, point them out and tell me what you think...

If you can't do that, then why did you even bother...?

I absolutely hate it, when a fellow poster disagrees but does not explain why...

What's the point of that...?

 

[Rain]

Are you fukking retarded? Why the hell would you think religion is what gives us the ability to reason and know the difference between right and wrong?

 

[Bud Bundy]

No, I am saying the opposite...

Morals and ethics have NOTHING to do with science...In fact, to conduct the most methodologically sound scientific experiment, you would need to throw morals and ethics in the bushes...

Morals and Ethics are subjective, you can't back them up with science...

And yes, I am saying you CANNOT have morals without religion...

Religion, morals, ethics, values, tradition, culture and etc are just words that describe similar ideologies...

You can't be a 100% logical human being, and function healthily in society...You have to believe in something, and whatever you believe in is your RELIGION...

Without religion there is no right or wrong...Just legal or illegal...

Without religion/belief, then the Newton massacre is no different than me picking up a can of insecticides, and spraying it on some roaches...

Why? As scientist you have to remain objective, so when you put your human bias aside, scientifically speaking, is there really a difference between killing a baby roach and killing a human baby...?

Is one organism more deserving of life than another...?

Only Human religion tells us yes...

right and wrong are subjective terms defined by our society and or culture. They do not exist as real things that carry real consequences in our world except if they are carried out by real people. The killing of these children are seen as a crime in our society because of there youth and there innocence (doing nothing to deserve this crime). Another culture may see these children death's as god's justice for something they did in past life or some sin they did in this life which would be good. Other cultures hold different views on what is good or bad so which one is right and why? Are Christians more right then Jews?

 

[nineteeneightysix]

I never get this "especially if you are Jewish/Muslim/Christian" thing. Do Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism, Daoism, etc advocate or not warn against killing? You could even argue some of those religions are much more vehement about nonviolence than the big abrahamic three.
...

Buddy, that's not the point of the thread...I named those religions because they are the most powerful and symbolic at this point in human history...

It's like when we use Kleenex to refer to paper tissue of any brand...

Just to simply the debate...

To clarify, I guess my main argument is can right or wrong exist without religion...?

Another side thought is, how is believing in the constitution of the USA/Canada any different than believing in any religious book that describes laws and social standards...?

Also, if you are all about the science, do you believe that a human life is just as valuable as a roach's life...?

For example, if white dude saw Mike Vick and a pittbull drowning, and the white dude chose to save the dog before Mike Vick, would that white dude be wrong...?

 

[Julius Skrrvin]

Buddy, that's not the point of the thread...I named those religions because they are the most powerful and symbolic at this point in human history...

It's like when we use Kleenex to refer to paper tissue of any brand...

Just to simply the debate...

To clarify, I guess my main argument is can right or wrong exist without religion...?

Another side thought is, how is believing in the constitution of the USA/Canada any different than believing in any religious book that describes laws and social standards...?

Also, if you are all about the science, do you believe that a human life is just as valuable as a roach's life...?

For example, if white dude saw Mike Vick and a pittbull drowning, and the white dude chose to save the dog before Mike Vick, would that white dude be wrong...?

-Why would popularity or power matter? Dont mention certain religions as salient if it's irrelevant to the topic.

-Dude. Of course it can. What the hell kind of question is that? Do all atheists strike you as immoral and awful people. In fact, atheists are often shown to be more compassionate in studies than religious people. There are biological sources for empathy, such as Kin Selection.

-Look up Positivist Law vs. Natural Law. READ, LURK, then post.

- nobody is trying to situationally delineate the differences between how morals would play out based on different belief systems in real time. I dont know if you've been in a situation like that, but if you see someone in trouble... You're not going to think "oh, i believe in jesus, i should help that guy". It's informed by your moral system on the conscious level, but I believe reactions in such systems are powered by instinctual and subconscious machinery, not any sort of moral guidance.

 

[Bud Bundy]

Buddy, that's not the point of the thread...I named those religions because they are the most powerful and symbolic at this point in human history...

It's like when we use Kleenex to refer to paper tissue of any brand...

Just to simply the debate...

To clarify, I guess my main argument is can right or wrong exist without religion...?

Another side thought is, how is believing in the constitution of the USA/Canada any different than believing in any religious book that describes laws and social standards...?

Also, if you are all about the science, do you believe that a human life is just as valuable as a roach's life...?

For example, if white dude saw Mike Vick and a pittbull drowning, and the white dude chose to save the dog before Mike Vick, would that white dude be wrong...?

you don't have to believe in the Constitution or laws of any land but if you disobey them real consequences happen to you. So no they are not the same.

And humans have shown that lower life forms don't compare to a human life what with the mass killing of animals for food.

 

[nineteeneightysix]

Are you fukking retarded? Why the hell would you think religion is what gives us the ability to reason and know the difference between right and wrong?

Because religion exists for that very purpose...

No human being is born knowing right from wrong...In fact, right and wrong don't even exist...Right and wrong is the definition of religion...

 

[Skooby]

It's wrong because its bad for humanity as a whole. Before and after the current popular religions morality comes for a standpoint of doing what right for humanity or your communty.

I came in to say this. Morals arose from keeping your community together. It's not advantageous to a community/settlement if you have people killing each other without repercussions.

 

[MeachTheMonster]

Because religion exists for that very purpose...

No human being is born knowing right from wrong...In fact, right and wrong don't even exist...Right and wrong is the definition of religion...

So why didn't the cave men kill each other off?

Why don't animals in the wild just kill each other off?

 

[Skooby]

Because religion exists for that very purpose...

No human being is born knowing right from wrong...In fact, right and wrong don't even exist...Right and wrong is the definition of religion...

Right and wrong is taught by the childs parents and/or the community. At one point in time, slavery was right to certain populations across the globe. As time passed, slavery was viewed as being harmful to the global community instead of helpful. At that point right and wrong, for the people who thought it was right, began to change. Religion had nothing to do with it.

 

[nineteeneightysix]

you don't have to believe in the Constitution or laws of any land but if you disobey them real consequences happen to you. So no they are not the same.
And humans have shown that lower life forms don't compare to a human life what with the mass killing of animals for food.

Yes, they are the same...

At one point in human history, the Torah, New Testament, Koran and many other religious books were the Constitution or Laws, and if you disobeyed them, real consequences would happen to you...

At the end of the day, what we call the laws of the land, serve the same purpose as the religious books of the past...

Read the Bible, Moses couldn't enforce all the laws by himself, so he appointed judges for every tribe...

This was probably a political strategy he learned from another nation (and not God, as the Bible claims)...

Today, we just have a more advanced and layered system, but the foundation and purpose of the system is still the same...Control of the masses...

The Judicial System is actually a religious system when you think about it...

All we did (in Western countries) was to remove the superstition from it...

 

[NoMayo15]

OP, you have a strange definition of the word "religion".

 

[nineteeneightysix]

Right and wrong is taught by the childs parents and/or the community. At one point in time, slavery was right to certain populations across the globe. As time passed, slavery was viewed as being harmful to the global community instead of helpful. At that point right and wrong, for the people who thought it was right, began to change. Religion had nothing to do with it.

And on what principles are the parents/community basing their teachings of right and wrong...?

Even though we may have multiple religions within a society, we still have a common "social religion" that we all follow (at least successful multicultural countries like Canada do)...

One the biggest religious institutions we have in the USA/Canada is the Judicial System...

This religion supersedes any other individual religion...

People who don't believe in the law, and even worse, who don't respect the law are in fact "sinners" that we are okay with punishing...

As soon as you start teaching a child right and wrong, you are giving them something to believe in, you are giving them religion...Because morals are not based on science, they are based on religious principals who have learned and teach our children...

In science, the only difference between a human and a rat, are the genetic sequences that makes us human and them rats...

You need a religion to believe that killing another human is not the same as killing a rat...

 

[Rain]

Because religion exists for that very purpose...

No human being is born knowing right from wrong...In fact, right and wrong don't even exist...Right and wrong is the definition of religion...

You realize that humanity along with morality has existed long before religion right?