If you condense ‘Reasonable Doubt’ down to an ‘Illmatic’ size track list … what tracks would you take off and would it be better than Illmatic?

[⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐]

It’s opposite for me…lyrically illmatic takes it

Musically I give it RD…might be the album that’s aged the best all time imo

RD sounds sonically more modern

While IM sounds more classically boom bap and reflects something we almost lost in 1994-1995 as Hip-Hop production began to evolve sonically, what we lost has reemerged in recent times as like a throwback boom bap movement from acts like Griselda and those associated

This is probably a topic for @Art Barr

By I am right now @‘ing his crib and he didn’t even give me his number

 

[⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐]

RD is simple too narrow in subject matter with ehhh production to compete with Illmatic even if you cut out the filler.

RD is more of a chronicling of a man’s personal come up while Illmatic is like existential commentary of an enlightened adolescent

 

[Anerdyblackguy]

First of all the best song on reasonable doubt and it would be a top song (maybe 1 or 2 ) on illmatic is Jay Z regrets. You have to be in a real deep tough mental state to produce a song of that caliber.

 

[Lord Beasley]

i'd take off every track.

 

[papa pimp]

RD is more of a chronicling of a man’s personal come up while Illmatic is like existential commentary of an enlightened adolescent

I wouldn't disagree with this but in agreeing I would say RD is very confined to Jay where as Illmatic explores not just Nas but the world around Nas.

 

[⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐]

i'd take off every track.

The Nas brigade has arrived

I wouldn't disagree with this but in agreeing I would say RD is very confined to Jay where as Illmatic explores not just Nas but the world around Nas.

Philosopher vs Hustler

 

[Sauce and Footwork]

I think RD is a classic album, but Illmatic is a work of art. You can pick any song to remove from Illmatic and it still remains a piece of art. It defines what hip hop is to me and is the library of Congress for a reason. I’m from the south and I think Illmatic just had more appeal regionally. Yeah it’s ultra New York.. but the lyricism and organic perspective of being a young black youth in America and of course being from the ghetto at that time just spans regionality where despite him talking about Queens, we feel we can relate more to Nas. No disrespect to Jay Z… but everybody not trying to hear NY mafioso raps. I know that was part of his life I guess, but it don’t change the fact musically it sound more forced. And I got Jay tied with BIG right after PAC and Nas. But the haunting production combined with Nas storytelling was GOAT level

I think it’s more fair to go RD against Stillmatic -Go ahead and Neg me

 

[Whips-n-Chains]

Before the stans come out of the woodworks; First thing we must consider is we are comparing lyrical work of a 17 year old versus a 26 year old who may of been highly-influenced by the work of the 17 year old


Second thing we must consider is that we are comparing the production of a signed artist working a production dream team to the product of an self-financed independent artist


Now as I go through the track list


D’Evils
22 Two’s
Coming of Age
Cashmere Thoughts

Am I really gonna pull THESE tracks off?



I think this proves Reasonable Doubt is better than Illmatic


What do you stanleys think?

You're sure as shyt not pulling D'Evils off...you trippin

You're keeping Ain't No nikka on there?

The 3 weak tracks on RD are universally regarded as:

Ain't No nikka
22 Two's
Coming of Age

...and to a lesser extent, Cashmere Thoughts

Take those 4 off, and NO it's not better than illmatic. RD has become overrated with Jay-Z's popularity in the early 2000s. RD is one of my top 10-12 all-time favorite albums, but illmatic is in my top 3.

 

[Artificial Intelligence]

You have to remove tracks to make it the quality of illmatic

 

[Surreal]

Cases could be made for both of these statement and since we are talking about “classics” rather than perfect albums it is fair to say that the word classic should denote something notable of the time

Looking back 100 years from now it’s likely we would see all of Jay Z’s career as one era

And although as much as Jay Z would like to … during his era he was never the top guy outside of an industry perspective


And truthfully …. Neither was Nas despite having album of the year in 1994 he was not bigger than Biggie or Tupac who were both on an entirely different level that made the impact of their music verge on pop star levels

Nas was bigger in 94 than Big and Pac

Illmatic sold more 1st week
Biggie didn't blow until he hopped on remixes

More revisionist history

 

[Tony D'Amato]

Illmatic is overrated. Not even Nas best album

 

[Whips-n-Chains]

Illmatic is overrated. Not even Nas best album

I have to vehemently disagree. The revisionist overrating of IWW is near the level of RD at this point. Lyrically IWW is incredible, but there are some lags, there's some over-produced songs (Nas is Coming) and some skips (Black Girl Lost). Trackmasters are meh, especially compared to Q-Tip, Premier, Pete Rock, Large Pro, etc.

 

[Tony D'Amato]

I have to vehemently disagree. The revisionist overrating of IWW is near the level of RD at this point. Lyrically IWW is incredible, but there are some lags, there's some over-produced songs (Nas is Coming) and some skips (Black Girl Lost). Trackmasters are meh, especially compared to Q-Tip, Premier, Pete Rock, Large Pro, etc.

Illmatic sounds dated and every track on it is not a banger. Also feel like NA flow was the same throughout. RD is better than Illmatic imo. Especially lyrically

 

[Bugzbunny129]

There are many albums better than illmatic

 

[Whips-n-Chains]

Illmatic sounds dated and every track on it is not a banger. Also feel like NA flow was the same throughout. RD is better than Illmatic imo. Especially lyrically

It sounds dated b/c it's a time capsule of 1992-93 when it was recorded.

Hip-Hop as a whole made huge jumps from 94 to 96, and even 95 to 96 sounds vastly different. By 1996, the production sound, cadences, delivery, etc. was much more refined across the board. Compare The Infamous to Hell On Earth, or Dah Shinin to Nocturnal, or the 95 Wu Solo's to Ironman, etc. That's a whole separate thread to discuss how fast the genre was evolving at the time. Stuff from 91 sounded ancient by 93, which then sounded ancient by 95, which then sounded dated by 96-97.

I disagree that RD is better than illmatic, again very strongly. Again, I love RD, one of my favorites, but it lacks a certain quality that some other albums have.

To each their own though.