If the system is rigged against you and you commit a crime whos to blame?

[Fillerguy]

You're beginning to think like a determinist. Careful, the lot the posts here don't like that type of thinking.

There is no such thing as free will. we are a product of Genetics and environmental influences, which are both largely out of our control. I think the best solutions would be psychiatric therapy or sterilization. There is really no other no solution. Sure we have a small chance of success at changing the environment, a very small chance, but we have almost no chance at changing or even predicting what Genes may come into play. The best and least costly solution is to just kill or sterilize people.


Once you come the grips that determinism is the our reality, then you realize what a futile effort rehabilitation would be. The "Freakanomics" authors found a significant correlation between abortions and a reduction in the crime rate in the late 90's. I don't think we can simply ignore such findings and scoff at them just because they are politically incorrect. More recent findings are finding even more controversial findings. We can either put our collective heads in the sand or we can trust and accept the scientific method.

gotdamn. dont pull any punches Gun

 

[trillentyungsavage]

I got this idea from the kermit thread in TLR.


A young boy is born into a of family drug addicts/dealers, where everyone is trying to get over on each other and it's every man for himself, in a bad inner city. The only way to come up is to sell drugs, steal, or prostitution/pimp. He goes to a shytty school, with shytty students, underpaid teachers, outdated materials, and exceptions are being made to get you to the next grade. The walk to and from school involves walking past a barrage of crime. On this walk, or walk to anywhere, he's harassed by the police. The police treat him like a criminal from the start. If he isn't one then he will eventually be one in the near future is the cops mind state.

His dad is gone and his mom is on welfare. Never works a day but is getting paid. She doesn't care for the boy and no one teaches him the value of an education.

With all this against him he starts selling drugs like everyone else is doing. Cops catch him with drugs and he goes to jail for a long time. In jail he joins a gang and gets even deeper into that world.


Whose fault was it that he ended up there? Should his sentence be pardoned? Is he just a product of his enviroment? If he is, should he be persecuted the same way that people more fortunate are prosecuted? Is jail the answer to every crime? Wouldn't a rehabilitation/education center be better for these types of individuals? Is that "special treatment"?

Thanks for reading and opinions.

thats a fukked up situation to be in if you in a shytty school with shytty teachers and parents dont care about education how would you expect that to be a important part of his world he's just doing what he is taught. thats what it means to be a product of your enviorment

 

[Pool_Shark]

Principalty is going to extremes. Your suggestion of snipping nuts is a lazy one.

Despite this system creating a monster, at what point do we draw the line? When are people to be held accountable for they're actions?

My solution would involve stopping the useless war on terror, stopping the useless war on drugs, and starting a war on stupidity. Who's ready?

 

[Dirty_Jerz]

every adult is responsible for what goes on with the youth so there is no possible way it could be anybody but the system

if you grow up in a bad area its because your parents had to live there and their parents had to there or move there and eventually it goes all the way back to slavery generations of a fukked up system forcing people to struggle and little future company owners being brought up to believe this is the only way and even if its not who cares

 

[VerbalIntercourse]

Principalty is going to extremes. Your suggestion of snipping nuts is a lazy one.

If tomorrow some researchers find the SNPs for pedophilia, which I think is definitely in the realm of Possibility, what would you suggest is the cure then?

How do you "CURE" a schizophrenic or savant? It's absolutely impossible cure them likewise for any person with a disorder. Their brain chemistry is simply different than ours. It's abnormal. They don't see the world the way that you or I see it.

 

[Serious]

Principalty is going to extremes. Your suggestion of snipping nuts is a lazy one.

Despite this system creating a monster, at what point do we draw the line? When are people to be held accountable for they're actions?

My solution would involve stopping the useless war on terror, stopping the useless war on drugs, and starting a war on stupidity. Who's ready?

I'm trying to start a war on obesity.

I guess I can engage in stupidity too.

Logic and common sense aren't sohh common-spread throughout society.

People can't really formulate deep thoughts for themselves. And mainly

are left clueless in the dark. I'm sure a lot of people have seen the movie

freedom writers or read the book(crappy movie), but I often wonder the depth

of truth behind urban youths that have never been able to visit the beach, mountains

museums, space observatories(going there this Tuesday ) or somewhere

secluded outside of their direct neighborhood / environment. Which can have

an everlasting effect one's perception of life....

Why starve to do "good" and work "hard", if you live in constant poverty.

Why work an honest 9 to 5, making sub par wages when you could be making $3000 a day.

Then you have musik, which reinforces this concept:

College serves the purpose of getting qualifications to get employment. If you are going for any other reason you shouldn't be going.

Why go to school, when you can dropout, be ruthless making more money than these teachers.

Knowledge is underrated.....

 

[Turbulent]

I got this idea from the kermit thread in TLR.


A young boy is born into a of family drug addicts/dealers, where everyone is trying to get over on each other and it's every man for himself, in a bad inner city. The only way to come up is to sell drugs, steal, or prostitution/pimp. He goes to a shytty school, with shytty students, underpaid teachers, outdated materials, and exceptions are being made to get you to the next grade. The walk to and from school involves walking past a barrage of crime. On this walk, or walk to anywhere, he's harassed by the police. The police treat him like a criminal from the start. If he isn't one then he will eventually be one in the near future is the cops mind state.

His dad is gone and his mom is on welfare. Never works a day but is getting paid. She doesn't care for the boy and no one teaches him the value of an education.

With all this against him he starts selling drugs like everyone else is doing. Cops catch him with drugs and he goes to jail for a long time. In jail he joins a gang and gets even deeper into that world.


Whose fault was it that he ended up there? Should his sentence be pardoned? Is he just a product of his enviroment? If he is, should he be persecuted the same way that people more fortunate are prosecuted? Is jail the answer to every crime? Wouldn't a rehabilitation/education center be better for these types of individuals? Is that "special treatment"?

Thanks for reading and opinions.

it's his fault for getting caught...




naw but seriously, it depends on the individual.some people truly live lives where they never had that opportunity to see another path let alone follow it. some are only given one chance in their whole life. and then you get the people who keep getting second chances time and time again and seem to be constantly blessed with positive mentors.

then you gotta factor in the impressionability of the young person. at the end of the day it's all randomness. what can you do. heck some babies are born, only take a couple of breath and die right away. no one ever said life is fair.

whoever you are, one thing you gotta do is stop using the fact that the next man has more opportunity than you as a crutch or excuse. cause that's the mentality of a loser straight up. focus on your hand and focus on catching or creating the opportunity. and if it never comes, then you weren't meant to survive. but if it does, MAKE IT COUNT!! fukk what's fair. focus on finding ways to prosper longterm regardless of what your odds are compared to the next man's.

 

[OsO]

 

[OsO]

if you set the rules of the game up so that a certain number of people will fail, then a certain number of people will fail, simple as that.

especially when people dont even know they're in a game, let alone the rules to the game.

 

[ecnirp1]

the individual that commits the crime is to blame.

if people in the inner-city aren't aware that the America's system is setup for them to fail, and don't act accordingly to make sure that doesn't happen, it's their own fault.

it's 2012; the system being against you isn't really a valid excuse anymore. it's the culture and mindset of inner-city communitites that has to change.

 

[mbewane]

Definitely, the system has a large chunk of responsibility in providing opportunities to citizens via school, good infrastructure, security, good information, health care and so forth (incidentally, that usually requires public spending or what some of y'all might call "socialist" policies...)

However, as someone said people in difficult areas aren't ALL thugs, drug addicts and the like, and individual responsibility does come into play at some point. Not saying that it's as easy to take good decisions under those circumstances as if you grew up in a better environment, but at some time you will have the choice. I mean even if you're dealing, why not use that money to build something positive? In the end, your personal responsibility is engaged when/if you commit a crime. It's amazing how some will say "I'm not a criminal just because I grew up in the hood" and then turn around and say "If he's a criminal, it's because he grew up in the hood" .

 

[Poppa_Dock]

this isn't a game though this is simple bad vs evil decisions

why do people take the humanity out of it? in the end you should be a human being, therefore u know there are laws and crimes,
all humans love to use the excuse that they were tricked, swindled, forced into acting the way they were
its a running theme throughout human history that most people who involve themselves in shameful activity pretend like they had no other choice

 

[Pool_Shark]

If tomorrow some researchers find the SNPs for pedophilia, which I think is definitely in the realm of Possibility, what would you suggest is the cure then?

How do you "CURE" a schizophrenic or savant? It's absolutely impossible cure them likewise for any person with a disorder. Their brain chemistry is simply different than ours. It's abnormal. They don't see the world the way that you or I see it.

Pedophilia is in no way comparable to drug dealing, or falling victim to circumstances. Should we just sterilize all poor people, should we sterilize alcoholics, should we sterilize fanatics. Who gets to decide who's sterilized and who isn't? Like I said your taking a lazy approach. Instead of really getting to the heart of these circumstances and educating people and investing more in inner city youth you want to just make them go away. You can't run from your problems or try and make them disappear. They have to be confronted and dealt with.

Definitely, the system has a large chunk of responsibility in providing opportunities to citizens via school, good infrastructure, security, good information, health care and so forth (incidentally, that usually requires public spending or what some of y'all might call "socialist" policies...)

However, as someone said people in difficult areas aren't ALL thugs, drug addicts and the like, and individual responsibility does come into play at some point. Not saying that it's as easy to take good decisions under those circumstances as if you grew up in a better environment, but at some time you will have the choice. I mean even if you're dealing, why not use that money to build something positive? In the end, your personal responsibility is engaged when/if you commit a crime. It's amazing how some will say "I'm not a criminal just because I grew up in the hood" and then turn around and say "If he's a criminal, it's because he grew up in the hood" .

Your right, not everyone is brought up like that or has malicious intentions, I was just giving an extreme example.

You say why not build something positive with drug money, who is teaching him to do that. He learns to floss for the hoes, and get money.

It's just once these people are put through the prison system that's it. Put them in there and they'll learn a lesson. What needs to be done is a treatment or rehabilitation of these individuals to make them wise to the ways of the world. I know prisons do offer help but there has to be more that can be done. Especially for non-violent offenders. Other countries entire focus is on rehabilitation. There needs to be a balance between carrot and stick.

The system creates animals, when they bite back at it, everyone acts surprised and angry. Instead of dealing with the cause the system deals with the effects.

 

[tru_m.a.c]

essentially don't you blame everyone that is older than him that is a part of the cycle that allows him to participate in it

Of course you blame the discriminatory practices.....

But I don't understand how when we say, ppl fall victim to their surroundings, that the ppl who create the rules within those surrounding aren't at fault too.

Its one thing for the drug dealer to sell drugs, its another thing for the drug dealer to recruit kids to beat the drug laws.

Why do we pretend that if the discriminatory practices in the system disappeared, that the Stockholm syndrome that props up these environments won't continue.

 

[Pool_Shark]

essentially don't you blame everyone that is older than him that is a part of the cycle that allows him to participate in it

Of course you blame the discriminatory practices.....

But I don't understand how when we say, ppl fall victim to their surroundings, that the ppl who create the rules within those surrounding aren't at fault too.

Its one thing for the drug dealer to sell drugs, its another thing for the drug dealer to recruit kids to beat the drug laws.

Why do we pretend that if the discriminatory practices in the system disappeared, that the Stockholm syndrome that props up these environments won't continue.

Who created the older people that created this youngster? It just keeps going further and further back in a cycle until something is done to curve the fallout of what's going on.