How The Obama Administration Talks to Black America

The Real

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And to clarify my point further: I already conceded several things.

1. Black people should continue to work hard, and to work harder.

2. Black men should be good fathers and set good examples.

3. The global marketplace and the US-based employers who judge Black folks against internationals don't really care about the unique issues affecting Black people.

So again, I'm not simply rejecting the content of his speech wholesale, but rather, putting it into a context that draws its less productive and more damaging elements into the spotlight.
 

Blackgate

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:deadhorse:...it aint cool that barack keep giving black audiences these trite and bombastic pep talks but he not saying anything out of character--:obama:...
 

MeachTheMonster

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On the contrary- I think you're missing the larger picture here by both accepting some of the framing assumptions and also decontextualizing his statement. Furthermore, I don't buy any general argument about "reading too deeply" into a political speech- these speeches are carefully crafted by expert speechwriters who choose words very carefully in order to convey very specific messages to different demographics. Their entire job rests on precision, detail, and hairsplitting.



There are several points at work here. Let me recoup them:

1. This speech is ultimately the same in content as every major speech Obama has given to and about Black people. I don't think that requires citations to prove, but I'd be happy to get some if need be.

2. Only Black people constantly receive this kind of messaging, from Obama AND from white politicians. This is because the Black voting bloc was and still is uniquely toxic for politicians.

3. The messaging itself involves the promotion of counterproductive (to the Black cause) assertions- that Black people shouldn't "make excuses," and that addressing systemic race issues simply isn't a priority or, even worse, impossible. Of course, the assumptions upon which these points rest are that Black people do make excuses, downplaying legitimate criticisms about systemic racism, and that Black people expect some kind of unearned privilege, as this speech itself makes clear with its constant use of those specific terms.

I can support 2 and 3 with a comparison to Hillary Clinton's last big speeches to and about women, from the recent Women in the World summit. Let's look at the tone and substance of this speech as encompassed in some key quotes:

"We had to make the case to the whole world that creating opportunities for women and girls advances security and prosperity for everyone. So we relied on the empirical research that shows that when women participate in the economy, everyone benefits."

"But fighting to give women and girls a fighting chance isn’t a nice thing to-do. It isn’t some luxury that we get to when we have time on our hands to spend. This is a core imperative for every human being in every society."

"And yes, we now have American women at high levels of business, academia, and government—you name it. But, as we’ve seen in recent months, we’re still asking age-old questions about how to make women’s way in male-dominated fields, how to balance the demands of work and family. The Economist magazine recently published what it called a “glass-ceiling index” ranking countries based on factors like opportunities for women in the workplace and equal pay. The United States was not even in the top 10. Worse, recent studies have found that, on average, women live shorter lives in America than in any other major industrialized country."

"But the fact is that for too many American women, opportunity and the dream of upward mobility—the American Dream— remains elusive."

"Because if America is going to lead we expect ourselves to lead, we need to empower women here at home to participate fully in our economy and our society, we need to make equal pay a reality, we need to extending family and medical leave benefits to more workers and make them paid, we need to encourage more women and girls to pursue careers in math and science."


Notice the stark difference between this and Obama's speech- It actually lists real problems facing women in the US (let's restrict it to America, for fairness' and context's sake,) centralizes those issues instead of glossing them, and, instead of telling women to stop making excuses and work harder because "no one cares," we see a push towards convincing all people that investing in women is a good thing, and towards actual policy that would effect the systemic imbalances by empowering women. Finally, this push towards correcting inequality is presented as a moral duty AND a necessary element for the success of the US. Even in Obama's most progressive speech (the one on HBCUs, with that whole initiative,) we never got this kind of fire, and that speech was maybe the only one that got close, whereas Hillary and others give speeches like this about women all the time.

Now, you might counter that this was given at a summit specifically on women's empowerment, and was in front of an international audience, so the tone of the speech was affected by the global inequalities that women face, which in many other countries is much harsher than the US and requires that kind of rhetoric. I don't think that invalidates the parts of the speech that address America, especially since Obama's speech has a global outlook as well, but let's look at a domestic example.

Here's Obama talking about women's rights, just a few weeks ago: Obama Planned Parenthood Speech: Abortion Foes Want Return To 1950s

When was the last time he spoke about Black issues this way? The push against abortion and the "war on women" don't represent a set of issues that have no analogue on the Black community- on the contrary, there are deep-seated, active pushes against Black progress at this very moment- I don't really think I need to list them yet again, but the point is that we never get this kind of rhetoric from him on Black issues.

I could get into recent speeches on immigration, too, but this is already getting long, so I'll save it, for now.





You'll have to elaborate, because I see no such difference. Conservatives might have thrown a few more racist codewords into the mix, but substantively, this speech would have made Reagan proud- if Obama going on about taking responsibility for broken families, saying that Black folks should "stop making excuses" and that, as you put it, "no one cares" and "no one is going to anything for you to atone for past mistakes" isn't "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" rhetoric, then what is?

It may sound to you like sound, "realistic" advice, but combined with Obama's relative inaction on the issues that would actually help Black people consolidate themselves as a workforce, it sounds to me more like a tacit endorsement of the status quo, and an admission that he's not planning to take on those issues that most directly affect Black people. "There's real inequality, but we're not going to do anything about it" is not productive messaging or policy, for obvious reasons.

Paying lip service to systemic race issues by tagging them as "the legacy of slavery and segregation," the connotation of which clearly makes them a relic of the past, as if gerrymandering, redlining, rampant deregulation, and the erosion of social services, all of which are post-segregation developments, don't constitute an active set of contemporary issues that shape racial inequality, is something Conservatives do all the time as well.



That's true, but again, I think you're missing the forest for the trees. The problems I'm discussing encompass more than the systemic issue of hiring bias.
:whew: reading both you and @BarNone posts its hard for me to disagree with either of you.

On one hand you are correct Obama and politicians in general tiptoe around black issues and seem to take the "boot strap" stance more times than not. But at the same time I'm searching and can't find anything wrong with this individual speech.

And I think Obama is in a loose loose situation, because we are sitting here criticizing him for tough talk, while the other side is criticizing him for pandering and giving us handouts. So which side is correct? At this point I'm not sure.
 
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theworldismine13

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On the contrary- I think you're missing the larger picture here by both accepting some of the framing assumptions and also decontextualizing his statement. Furthermore, I don't buy any general argument about "reading too deeply" into a political speech- these speeches are carefully crafted by expert speechwriters who choose words very carefully in order to convey very specific messages to different demographics. Their entire job rests on precision, detail, and hairsplitting.



There are several points at work here. Let me recoup them:

1. This speech is ultimately the same in content as every major speech Obama has given to and about Black people. I don't think that requires citations to prove, but I'd be happy to get some if need be.

2. Only Black people constantly receive this kind of messaging, from Obama AND from white politicians. This is because the Black voting bloc was and still is uniquely toxic for politicians.

3. The messaging itself involves the promotion of counterproductive (to the Black cause) assertions- that Black people shouldn't "make excuses," and that addressing systemic race issues simply isn't a priority or, even worse, impossible. Of course, the assumptions upon which these points rest are that Black people do make excuses, downplaying legitimate criticisms about systemic racism, and that Black people expect some kind of unearned privilege, as this speech itself makes clear with its constant use of those specific terms.

I can support 2 and 3 with a comparison to Hillary Clinton's last big speeches to and about women, from the recent Women in the World summit. Let's look at the tone and substance of this speech as encompassed in some key quotes:

"We had to make the case to the whole world that creating opportunities for women and girls advances security and prosperity for everyone. So we relied on the empirical research that shows that when women participate in the economy, everyone benefits."

"But fighting to give women and girls a fighting chance isn’t a nice thing to-do. It isn’t some luxury that we get to when we have time on our hands to spend. This is a core imperative for every human being in every society."

"And yes, we now have American women at high levels of business, academia, and government—you name it. But, as we’ve seen in recent months, we’re still asking age-old questions about how to make women’s way in male-dominated fields, how to balance the demands of work and family. The Economist magazine recently published what it called a “glass-ceiling index” ranking countries based on factors like opportunities for women in the workplace and equal pay. The United States was not even in the top 10. Worse, recent studies have found that, on average, women live shorter lives in America than in any other major industrialized country."

"But the fact is that for too many American women, opportunity and the dream of upward mobility—the American Dream— remains elusive."

"Because if America is going to lead we expect ourselves to lead, we need to empower women here at home to participate fully in our economy and our society, we need to make equal pay a reality, we need to extending family and medical leave benefits to more workers and make them paid, we need to encourage more women and girls to pursue careers in math and science."


Notice the stark difference between this and Obama's speech- It actually lists real problems facing women in the US (let's restrict it to America, for fairness' and context's sake,) centralizes those issues instead of glossing them (whereas Obama's speech does the opposite, making the modern problems secondary to the progress made,) and, instead of telling women to stop making excuses and work harder because "no one cares," we see a push towards convincing all people that investing in women is a good thing, and towards actual policy that would effect the systemic imbalances by empowering women. Finally, this push towards correcting inequality is presented as a moral duty AND a necessary element for the success of the US. Even in Obama's most progressive speech (the one on HBCUs, with that whole initiative,) we never got this kind of fire, and that speech was maybe the only one that got close, whereas Hillary and others give speeches like this about women all the time.

Now, you might counter that this was given at a summit specifically on women's empowerment, and was in front of an international audience, so the tone of the speech was affected by the global inequalities that women face, which in many other countries is much harsher than the US and requires that kind of rhetoric. I don't think that invalidates the parts of the speech that address America, especially since Obama's speech has a global outlook as well, but let's look at a domestic example.

Here's Obama talking about women's rights, just a few weeks ago: Obama Planned Parenthood Speech: Abortion Foes Want Return To 1950s

When was the last time he spoke about Black issues this way? The push against abortion and the "war on women" don't represent a set of issues that have no analogue on the Black community- on the contrary, there are deep-seated, active pushes against Black progress at this very moment- I don't really think I need to list them yet again, but the point is that we never get this kind of rhetoric from him on Black issues.

I could get into recent speeches on immigration, too, but this is already getting long, so I'll save it, for now.





You'll have to elaborate, because I see no such difference. Conservatives might have thrown a few more racist codewords into the mix, but substantively, this speech would have made Reagan proud- if Obama going on about taking responsibility for broken families, saying that Black folks should "stop making excuses" and that, as you put it, "no one cares" and "no one is going to anything for you to atone for past mistakes" isn't "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" rhetoric, then what is?

It may sound to you like sound, "realistic" advice, but combined with Obama's relative inaction on the issues that would actually help Black people consolidate themselves as a workforce, it sounds to me more like a tacit endorsement of the status quo, and an admission that he's not planning to take on those issues that most directly affect Black people. "There's real inequality, but we're not going to do anything about it" is not productive messaging or policy, for obvious reasons.

Paying lip service to systemic race issues by tagging them as "the legacy of slavery and segregation," the connotation of which clearly makes them a relic of the past, as if gerrymandering, redlining, rampant deregulation, and the erosion of social services, all of which are post-segregation developments, don't constitute an active set of contemporary issues that shape racial inequality, is something Conservatives do all the time as well.



That's true, but again, I think you're missing the forest for the trees. The problems I'm discussing encompass more than the systemic issue of hiring bias.

this type of response is one of the reasons i dont see liberalism as an answer to black problems, to liberals black issues are just another problem in a checklist along with a bunch of other groups

there are cultural issues in the black community that have to be addressed by the black community and obama is addressing them, so i dont think obama should talk to black audiences the way he talks to other audiences, i think when he talks to black audiences he should discuss cultural issues and mentality because those need to be addressed
 

No1

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The usual, uniquely patronizing rhetoric. "Nobody is going to give you anything you haven't earned." I guess Black people expect things they haven't earned? Or is it that addressing the legacy of slavery and segregation (always expressed in the past tense, as if there isn't an active status quo reality of discrimination) with actual policy would be equivalent to giving Black people something unearned?

Damn, you didn't have to do that to him.

:whoo:

He didn't do anything to me, but I wouldn't expect someone like you with such a weak base on social issues and is an erratic hater to get that. @The Real I'll get back at you later homie, I haven't fully read through your post yet, but it looks like you're doing what I said not to do. Looks like Meach and TWISM said what I'll get at in more detail.
 
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CACtain Planet

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And to clarify my point further: I already conceded several things.

1. Black people should continue to work hard, and to work harder.

2. Black men should be good fathers and set good examples.

3. The global marketplace and the US-based employers who judge Black folks against internationals don't really care about the unique issues affecting Black people.

So again, I'm not simply rejecting the content of his speech wholesale, but rather, putting it into a context that draws its less productive and more damaging elements into the spotlight.

Top notch posting breh :salute:
 

Rekkapryde

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Yall kiddin yourself if you think Romney was better...no one will agree with all the decisions and things he's done, but Obama does give a fukk about us. He has done alot and I hope hey can and would do more, but you really think a mufukka like Romney gives 2 fukks about nikkaz? :rudy:
 

blackzeus

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Sounds like truth to me. It's baffling how often I hear my fellow brothas making excuses. IMO the biggest difference between young blacks and young whites is that we can't be average or lazy. A white person can get by doing average, if he has the proper connections and network support. Most of us brothers don't have that network support, or that good old boys system of helping each other, or having a parent who can get you a decent job that you can build off of.

That's where the challenge is. Once we get more people into those high place positions we can build our own networks.

:obama: And it's about time somebody put away the candy and took out the belt. No amount of money, grants, reparations can every wash away the evil of slavery. We need to get over our blackness and keep pushing forward. He is telling them harsh reality, so it's up to you to cry and curl up in fetal mode or to :salute: and be BETTER than your competition.
 

Rarely-Wrong Liggins

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On the contrary- I think you're missing the larger picture here by both accepting some of the framing assumptions and also decontextualizing his statement. Furthermore, I don't buy any general argument about "reading too deeply" into a political speech- these speeches are carefully crafted by expert speechwriters who choose words very carefully in order to convey very specific messages to different demographics. Their entire job rests on precision, detail, and hairsplitting.



There are several points at work here. Let me recoup them:

1. This speech is ultimately the same in content as every major speech Obama has given to and about Black people. I don't think that requires citations to prove, but I'd be happy to get some if need be.

2. Only Black people constantly receive this kind of messaging, from Obama AND from white politicians. This is because the Black voting bloc was and still is uniquely toxic for politicians.

3. The messaging itself involves the promotion of counterproductive (to the Black cause) assertions- that Black people shouldn't "make excuses," and that addressing systemic race issues simply isn't a priority or, even worse, impossible. Of course, the assumptions upon which these points rest are that Black people do make excuses, downplaying legitimate criticisms about systemic racism, and that Black people expect some kind of unearned privilege, as this speech itself makes clear with its constant use of those specific terms.

I can support 2 and 3 with a comparison to Hillary Clinton's last big speeches to and about women, from the recent Women in the World summit. Let's look at the tone and substance of this speech as encompassed in some key quotes:

"We had to make the case to the whole world that creating opportunities for women and girls advances security and prosperity for everyone. So we relied on the empirical research that shows that when women participate in the economy, everyone benefits."

"But fighting to give women and girls a fighting chance isn’t a nice thing to-do. It isn’t some luxury that we get to when we have time on our hands to spend. This is a core imperative for every human being in every society."

"And yes, we now have American women at high levels of business, academia, and government—you name it. But, as we’ve seen in recent months, we’re still asking age-old questions about how to make women’s way in male-dominated fields, how to balance the demands of work and family. The Economist magazine recently published what it called a “glass-ceiling index” ranking countries based on factors like opportunities for women in the workplace and equal pay. The United States was not even in the top 10. Worse, recent studies have found that, on average, women live shorter lives in America than in any other major industrialized country."

"But the fact is that for too many American women, opportunity and the dream of upward mobility—the American Dream— remains elusive."

"Because if America is going to lead we expect ourselves to lead, we need to empower women here at home to participate fully in our economy and our society, we need to make equal pay a reality, we need to extending family and medical leave benefits to more workers and make them paid, we need to encourage more women and girls to pursue careers in math and science."


Notice the stark difference between this and Obama's speech- It actually lists real problems facing women in the US (let's restrict it to America, for fairness' and context's sake,) centralizes those issues instead of glossing them (whereas Obama's speech does the opposite, making the modern problems secondary to the progress made,) and, instead of telling women to stop making excuses and work harder because "no one cares," we see a push towards convincing all people that investing in women is a good thing, and towards actual policy that would effect the systemic imbalances by empowering women. Finally, this push towards correcting inequality is presented as a moral duty AND a necessary element for the success of the US. Even in Obama's most progressive speech (the one on HBCUs, with that whole initiative,) we never got this kind of fire, and that speech was maybe the only one that got close, whereas Hillary and others give speeches like this about women all the time.

Now, you might counter that this was given at a summit specifically on women's empowerment, and was in front of an international audience, so the tone of the speech was affected by the global inequalities that women face, which in many other countries is much harsher than the US and requires that kind of rhetoric. I don't think that invalidates the parts of the speech that address America, especially since Obama's speech has a global outlook as well, but let's look at a domestic example.

Here's Obama talking about women's rights, just a few weeks ago: Obama Planned Parenthood Speech: Abortion Foes Want Return To 1950s

When was the last time he spoke about Black issues this way? The push against abortion and the "war on women" don't represent a set of issues that have no analogue on the Black community- on the contrary, there are deep-seated, active pushes against Black progress at this very moment- I don't really think I need to list them yet again, but the point is that we never get this kind of rhetoric from him on Black issues.

I could get into recent speeches on immigration, too, but this is already getting long, so I'll save it, for now.





You'll have to elaborate, because I see no such difference. Conservatives might have thrown a few more racist codewords into the mix, but substantively, this speech would have made Reagan proud- if Obama going on about taking responsibility for broken families, saying that Black folks should "stop making excuses" and that, as you put it, "no one cares" and "no one is going to anything for you to atone for past mistakes" isn't "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" rhetoric, then what is?

It may sound to you like sound, "realistic" advice, but combined with Obama's relative inaction on the issues that would actually help Black people consolidate themselves as a workforce, it sounds to me more like a tacit endorsement of the status quo, and an admission that he's not planning to take on those issues that most directly affect Black people. "There's real inequality, but we're not going to do anything about it" is not productive messaging or policy, for obvious reasons.

Paying lip service to systemic race issues by tagging them as "the legacy of slavery and segregation," the connotation of which clearly makes them a relic of the past, as if gerrymandering, redlining, rampant deregulation, and the erosion of social services, all of which are post-segregation developments, don't constitute an active set of contemporary issues that shape racial inequality, is something Conservatives do all the time as well.



That's true, but again, I think you're missing the forest for the trees. The problems I'm discussing encompass more than the systemic issue of hiring bias.

:lupe:

I bet Obama felt this one.
 

No1

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You know, I was about to write a huge post to respond to you. Almost essay in format going through everything you said line by line. But then I realized concise statements and examples to show you why you’re aiming at the wrong target would be better. So let me start here.

On the contrary- I think you're missing the larger picture here by both accepting some of the framing assumptions and also decontextualizing his statement. Furthermore, I don't buy any general argument about "reading too deeply" into a political speech- these speeches are carefully crafted by expert speechwriters who choose words very carefully in order to convey very specific messages to different demographics. Their entire job rests on precision, detail, and hairsplitting.

Obama delivers numerous graduation speeches and they are geared towards certain groups, obviously, but your original statement and quote in this thread took a single statement from that speech and then tried to extrapolate towards a larger narrative about what he is saying about black people. I have been at two different Obama graduation speeches, and I was part of the student and faculty group that brought him to give the speech at Michigan. Like every one of his graduation speeches, he littered ours with minor politics and individualized school-specific general principles. The Morehouse speech was not all that different from that except in one way--he is the first sitting president to ever give a speech at Morehouse, and as an African-American, he felt he needed to say a bit more. He personalizes and talks more about community issues. He always felt that as a black elected official that he's more qualified to do so. As TWISM pointed out, other groups and more diverse groups, like that Michigan graduating class get general platitudes but black people, and in particular black men have always and will always get a more focused message from him. It is careful to the extent that he has to play the political game and general enough to be non-divisive, but specific enough to nail the point home.

As I sit here, on the internet, watching all my friends, their friends and recent and current graduates alike, elite public institution to ivy league, to being the first kid in their family to graduate from any college at all, not a single person of color reached the conclusion that the people in this thread found, whether they like Obama or not. And a lot of them do not like him and feel that he should do more. The lone negative comment came from a white guy who thought Obama was being biased towards black people for which (another white guy may I add) basically said Obama's point is what I said earlier.

The point is, the people who this message was directed at didn't take it that way and they are smart, and successful and determined people. To take away what you were initially asserting requires the usage of a certain type of heuristic that skews your perception. It also did not deter them from feeling like there's another speech about black issues that he needs to give. Now to address your points.


There are several points at work here. Let me recoup them:

1. This speech is ultimately the same in content as every major speech Obama has given to and about Black people. I don't think that requires citations to prove, but I'd be happy to get some if need be.

It is, and I think I already said that it was. Just like how every speech he gives to college kids at predominantly white schools is the same. All these speeches are more or less the same to varying degrees. I fail to see what is so poignant about that assertion.

But I’ll say this You claim that I’m missing the forest for the trees, I am not. The problem is that you and NZA and others, are attempting to plant this forest on infertile ground where it has never grown, and is not expected to grow (i'll explain in a moment). Just look at your examples.

Women's speech by Hillary

Notice the stark difference between this and Obama's speech- It actually lists real problems facing women in the US (let's restrict it to America, for fairness' and context's sake,) centralizes those issues instead of glossing them (whereas Obama's speech does the opposite, making the modern problems secondary to the progress made,) and, instead of telling women to stop making excuses and work harder because "no one cares," we see a push towards convincing all people that investing in women is a good thing, and towards actual policy that would effect the systemic imbalances by empowering women. Finally, this push towards correcting inequality is presented as a moral duty AND a necessary element for the success of the US. Even in Obama's most progressive speech (the one on HBCUs, with that whole initiative,) we never got this kind of fire, and that speech was maybe the only one that got close, whereas Hillary and others give speeches like this about women all the time.

Now, you might counter that this was given at a summit specifically on women's empowerment, and was in front of an international audience, so the tone of the speech was affected by the global inequalities that women face, which in many other countries is much harsher than the US and requires that kind of rhetoric. I don't think that invalidates the parts of the speech that address America, especially since Obama's speech has a global outlook as well, but let's look at a domestic example.
I was going to say the bolded, and it's correct. I even ran this comment by a couple of my law school friends (female and doing public interest work after law school) who were at that event and they agreed that this last paragraph is the difference.

Here's Obama talking about women's rights, just a few weeks ago: Obama Planned Parenthood Speech: Abortion Foes Want Return To 1950s

When was the last time he spoke about Black issues this way?

Your last quote proves my entire point. You want a specific list of things affecting Black Americans, now despite everything I've written up to this point. So do I, and I think it's time he tackled them head on. But this Morehouse speech is not the problem. What he said was what young college graduating black men needed to hear. Now, he needs to turn and address the greater issues affecting Black America, you're right. But you're projecting those feelings onto this speech based on all the assumptions that you drew. What you fail to realize in all your examples is what groups they are being given to. Political organizations, human rights groups and public policy organizations. This is not State of Black America, the NAACP, or anything of the sort. If he gives those speeches there after being reelected right now, then I’m with you. But this is a college graduation ceremony where he always throws out a few political darts, but mostly just seeks to encourage. For this group of young black men, he gave them the “succeed in spite of the odds” speech and that rubs you the wrong way because you want him to delve DEEP into issues. Yet, he hasn’t done that at graduations at women's colleges either.

That’s why I find your complaints trivial and why I say that you're trying to plant this forest in a place where it has never grown, a place that he has not made the domain for such broad calls. I was there watching my younger cousin graduate from Barnard last year. This is the gist of what that all girls schools got as far as substance in the middle of a period where the men at Columbia University were upset that THEY got Obama and not them, at a time where all types of vicious things were being said that would have led to the perfect moment to make a greater plea towards women and speak about their issues:

Of course, as young women, you’re also going to grapple with some unique challenges, like whether you’ll be able to earn equal pay for equal work; whether you’ll be able to balance the demands of your job and your family; whether you’ll be able to fully control decisions about your own health.

So your argument fails to the extent you're using a college graduation speech as the platform for him to give a larger political speech that delves into the intrinsic disadvantages that people face as a specific marginalized or disadvantaged group and you used speeches he gave in other places that are purely political in nature to make your point. Yet, the more appropriate analogy is whether or not he used a similar college graduation forum to give such a substantive speech about the issues of another marginalized group. You did not do that because that example does not exist. You had the right comments, but the wrong forum and discussion for them and that's why you started about by taking his comments out of of context to begin your narrative of drawing it into the larger political discourse where Obama has been silent on specifically addressing the discrimination that people of color face in a substantive way. You're claiming that you see no difference and that made it fair game, and if you're still running with that at this point I cannot convince you otherwise and I will not attempt to. I can rest assured that most people I've come across, Morehouse alum in attendance among them, did not draw your conclusion.

What you posted just now, and what you got dapped for makes perfect in a “when will Obama address black issues” thread. There, I’d agree with you, state the reasons why he’s in a precarious situation and then say why I think he needs to say more anyway. But not here. You, NZA and others used that misleading USATODAY headline as basis for which to launch grievances at President Obama which many can agree with in a general sense, but you need that "general sense" because in this specific instance you're off base. It’s no surprise that the most substantive and poignant points you made in your critiques of Obama, are about what he hasn’t said, not about what he did say in that speech.


You're doing too much, I'm sorry. I can't stand with you on this one. I'd go further, but I'm a time a crunch. We'll agree to disagree on this one :salute:
 

Rarely-Wrong Liggins

Name another Liggins hot I'm just honest.
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This is the same man who stood in front of a podium and declared he's not just the President of black America. You slap your largest voting bloc square in the face and people willingly accept it. Do you think the GOP would say something like "I'm not just the President of white America," "I'm not just the President of big business," "I'm not just the President of the Christian faith?"

Mexicans and gays have been leaning on Obama for years and he's never declared he's not just the President of those groups. This dude called Jason Collins, because he's gay. I have to remind myself that Obama is a politician. He doesn't have to work hard for the black vote and he doesn't. He can scold us all he likes because he won't suffer politically. As a black man he can say these things with impunity, basically using his race in a negative manner towards black Americans.
 
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This is the same man who stood in front of a podium and declared he's not just the President of black America. You slap your largest voting bloc square in the face and people willingly accept it. Do you think the GOP would say something like "I'm not just the President of white America," "I'm not just the President of big business," "I'm not just the President of the Christian faith?"

Mexicans and gays have been leaning on Obama for years and he's never declared he's not just the President of those groups. This dude called Jason Collins, because he's gay. I have to remind myself that Obama is a politician. He doesn't have to work hard for the black vote and he doesn't. He can scold us all he likes because he won't suffer politically. As a black man he can say these things with impunity, basically using his race in a negative manner towards black Americans.

:leostare: Obama's not Mexican or gay. And "I'm not just the President of big business" translate to the Main Street-Wall Street memes we've seen the GOP use frequently.
 

No1

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This is the same man who stood in front of a podium and declared he's not just the President of black America. You slap your largest voting bloc square in the face and people willingly accept it. Do you think the GOP would say something like "I'm not just the President of white America," "I'm not just the President of big business," "I'm not just the President of the Christian faith?"

Mexicans and gays have been leaning on Obama for years and he's never declared he's not just the President of those groups. This dude called Jason Collins, because he's gay. I have to remind myself that Obama is a politician. He doesn't have to work hard for the black vote and he doesn't. He can scold us all he likes because he won't suffer politically. As a black man he can say these things with impunity, basically using his race in a negative manner towards black Americans.

Even my nigs aren't reading things in context these days :snoop:
 

Type Username Here

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Let's take a look at Facts. This was written by Gary Younge (a black man) on May 5th, which directly predicted what Obama was going to say at Morehouse. Here are some facts:

Another invited speaker was Morehouse alumnus Kevin Johnson, a prominent Philadelphia pastor. Then Johnson, an ardent Obama supporter during both presidential runs, wrote an article criticising the president for failing to appoint enough black cabinet members and to address the needs of African Americans in general. "Obama has not moved African-American leadership forward but backwards," he wrote. "We are not in the driver's seat – or even in the car … Why are we so loyal to a president who is not loyal to us?"

:wow:

Shortly afterwards his speaker's slot was removed. Instead of addressing the students alone, the day before Obama, he will now be one of a three-person panel curated "to reflect a broader and more inclusive range of viewpoints".

:wow:

The brouhaha at Morehouse illustrates the degree to which space for this conversation within America's black communities has shrunk under Obama. "Too many black intellectuals have given up the hard work of thinking carefully in public about the crisis facing black America," said Princeton professor Eddie Glaude. "We have either become cheerleaders for President Obama or self-serving pundits." Hardly surprising when that "hard work" risks the backlash Johnson received. "I have friends," says Virginia state delegate Onzlee Ware, "who say I'm a traitor if I bring [Obama's shortcomings] up as an intellectual conversation."

:wow:

Second, African Americans, as a group, are far worse off now than when Obama was elected and the wealth gap between whites and blacks has grown since the recession. Between 2007 and 2010 black families' wealth decreased by 31%; for white families it was 11%. "[Theracial wealth gap] was already dismal," Darrick Hamilton, a New School professor, told the New York Times. "It got even worse."

:wow:

One shouldn't dismiss black representation as irrelevant or insist that symbolism is not important. But we shouldn't fetishise them either. For in themselves they are worse than meaningless without a discussion about what that representation is for and what those symbols mean.

It isn't that black Americans are entitled to special consideration because the president is black. Quite the opposite. They should demand of him what they would and have done of any president – greater equality and social justice. Only more so, because they gave him a greater percentage of their votes than any other group or to any other president. The "talented tenth" is barely worthy of the adjective unless it makes space for these debates or its progress is in some way related to the remaining 90%.

:wow: :wow:
@MeachTheMonster


http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/may/05/why-loyal-to-president-not-loyal-to-us

Deserves it's own thread
 
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