How long until Paul George surpasses Kevin Durant?
- Thread starter DoubleClutch
- Start date
He maybe a "D-leaguer" in terms of offensive ability, but he's one of the better defensive PGs in the league. Also let's not act like the Cavs were guarding Curry with Delly straight up, and not an entire defensive scheme designed to stop him - leaving Warriors role players wide open. Whereas LeBron was typically guarded one-on-one with the Warriors opting to stay on the Cavs shooters.You saw the Finals, right? Who mattered more?
Did you forget that the Cavs got away with putting a D-leaguer as the primary defender on Curry?
If you had them switch teams, does Curry's Cavs even with 1 game?
Curry mattered more because he created more offense for himself and his team by shooting better than LeBron and commanding more defensive attention.
It wasn't 1-on-1 defense that was leading Lebron to average 9 assists/game in the Finals, 2.5 more than Curry even though Curry's a point guard. He was creating open shots left and right, for both his shooters and his big men. Even though the Cavs shooters were absolutely horrid in the Finals, they were even worse whenever Lebron was out.
And Lebron's versatility certainly made a much greater impact on defense than Curry. Curry and Irving basically played to a draw in the first game, and for the rest of the series Curry just relaxed against Dellavedova and got to poach passing lanes.
I agree that Curry was the most important player on offense for Golden State, though certainly nowhere close on defense. But in the first three games, before Iggy moved into the starting lineup, Golden State was -4 with Curry on the court and +6 with Curry off the court. Whenever Curry went out, Golden State kept cooking...in the rare moments Lebron went out, the entire game fundamentally changed.
Again, if the players switch teams, what's the outcome? Does Lebron's Golden State beat Curry's Cavs in 4 games or 5?
And Lebron's versatility certainly made a much greater impact on defense than Curry. Curry and Irving basically played to a draw in the first game, and for the rest of the series Curry just relaxed against Dellavedova and got to poach passing lanes.
I agree that Curry was the most important player on offense for Golden State, though certainly nowhere close on defense. But in the first three games, before Iggy moved into the starting lineup, Golden State was -4 with Curry on the court and +6 with Curry off the court. Whenever Curry went out, Golden State kept cooking...in the rare moments Lebron went out, the entire game fundamentally changed.
Again, if the players switch teams, what's the outcome? Does Lebron's Golden State beat Curry's Cavs in 4 games or 5?
How does that make any sense when Curry was passing out of double teams and heavy hedges, and the Warriors would then move the ball on until they found an open man? Curry's assist rate doesn't begin to give a clear picture of how many points he created from the defensive attention he commanded, and putting the role players in a position to score.
Also let's not act like LeBron wasn't playing the role of PG for the Cavs, and let's not act like he had an insanely-high 40.5 USG% while Curry only had a 29..5 USG% - more opportunities to get assists.
The Warriors role players were considerably worse in the first half of the series - considering all the wide open shots they missed.
Let's not act like Curry had a teammate to provide equal impact to LeBron either. Curry didn't relax against Dellavedova; he was fighting through screens, working in and out of passing lanes, holding his own on switches and helping on other offensive players.
You wanna bring up Curry relaxing on defense but not LeBron - who would often sit in the corner to conserve energy on offense?
That's mostly because the lineups he played with couldn't generate any offense, and failed to take open shots when Curry created looks for them (after the ENTIRE Cavs defense was out to stop/limit Curry). Not to mention Golden State's bench were considerably better than whatever role players the Cavs dragged off the bench. GS's second unit wouldn't "cook" to the same degree if they had to play LeBron and the starters.
The Cavs only had ONE game with LeBron on the floor with a positive net-rating: -3, 0, +7, -15, -11, -3.
The Warriors win. But certainly not in 4. It would probably be the same result given the fact that the Cavs players would have more open looks playing with Curry than they did with LeBron (leading to a stronger possibility of more offensive production/rhythm) and a slightly worse defense.
Goatpoacher
Superstar
I don't know why people keep saying Curry was shut down in the Finals.
He shot 44 percent against the Pelicns and averaged 33.8 ppg
He shot 42 percent against the Grizz and averaged 24.5 ppg
He shot 52 percent against the Rockets and averaged 31.5 ppg
He shot 44 percent against the Cavs and averaged 26.0 ppg.
He played below the standard he set in the regular season for most of the playoffs. He was missing shots that he usually made. Delladova did not shut down shyt.
He shot 44 percent against the Pelicns and averaged 33.8 ppg
He shot 42 percent against the Grizz and averaged 24.5 ppg
He shot 52 percent against the Rockets and averaged 31.5 ppg
He shot 44 percent against the Cavs and averaged 26.0 ppg.
He played below the standard he set in the regular season for most of the playoffs. He was missing shots that he usually made. Delladova did not shut down shyt.
Having a 33% higher usage rate is good evidence for you being more valuable, not less.
And 33% higher usage rate by itself doesn't explain 40% more scoring and 40% more assists. Lebron's outsized production outpaced his increased usage rate.
And yes, Golden State missed some shots, but the Cavs missed far more. Let's match the players by shot attempts in the Finals:
JR Smith or Klay Thompson?
Dellavedova or Iguodala?
Mosgov or Draymond Green?
Tristan Thompson or Harrison Barnes?
Shumpert or Barbosa?
From top to bottom, the Warriors' players were MUCH better shooters and FAR better at creating their own shot than the Cavs players were. MUCH, MUCH better. You can't hide that. Nearly every point that players like Delly and Mosgov and TT scored was a direct result of something Lebron did, while Golden State had plenty of players who can make a shot on their own. And JR and Shump, the two guys in the Cavs lineup who can "sort of" create a shot, were absolutely horrific, shooting 31% and 26% for the series.
And don't even begin to blame any advantages Lebron had on on defense.
Mosgov or Bogut?
Tristan Thompson or Green?
Shumpert or Iggy?
JR Smith or Barnes?
Delly or Klay?
The 3rd-best defender on the Warriors is a mile ahead of the best guy the Cavs had (other than Lebron). Warriors had FAR more defensive firepower to throw at the Cavs than the Cavs had in return.
You can't blame this on, "Ah, man, those Golden State players just were ruining things for Curry during those first 3 games!" Curry is the best player on the Warriors, but in the series as a whole, he rarely looked like the best player on the court.
Switch those lineups, and Lebron gets the advantage of the switch in every. single. instance. And Klay/Green/Iggy/Barnes and company would be making WAY more open shots with Lebron because....who the hell on the Cavs would be guarding him?
Maybe they'd just throw Delly at him.
And 33% higher usage rate by itself doesn't explain 40% more scoring and 40% more assists. Lebron's outsized production outpaced his increased usage rate.
And yes, Golden State missed some shots, but the Cavs missed far more. Let's match the players by shot attempts in the Finals:
JR Smith or Klay Thompson?
Dellavedova or Iguodala?
Mosgov or Draymond Green?
Tristan Thompson or Harrison Barnes?
Shumpert or Barbosa?
From top to bottom, the Warriors' players were MUCH better shooters and FAR better at creating their own shot than the Cavs players were. MUCH, MUCH better. You can't hide that. Nearly every point that players like Delly and Mosgov and TT scored was a direct result of something Lebron did, while Golden State had plenty of players who can make a shot on their own. And JR and Shump, the two guys in the Cavs lineup who can "sort of" create a shot, were absolutely horrific, shooting 31% and 26% for the series.
And don't even begin to blame any advantages Lebron had on on defense.
Mosgov or Bogut?
Tristan Thompson or Green?
Shumpert or Iggy?
JR Smith or Barnes?
Delly or Klay?
The 3rd-best defender on the Warriors is a mile ahead of the best guy the Cavs had (other than Lebron). Warriors had FAR more defensive firepower to throw at the Cavs than the Cavs had in return.
You can't blame this on, "Ah, man, those Golden State players just were ruining things for Curry during those first 3 games!" Curry is the best player on the Warriors, but in the series as a whole, he rarely looked like the best player on the court.
Switch those lineups, and Lebron gets the advantage of the switch in every. single. instance. And Klay/Green/Iggy/Barnes and company would be making WAY more open shots with Lebron because....who the hell on the Cavs would be guarding him?
Maybe they'd just throw Delly at him.
Last edited:
he wasn't on the front page of the list. the average fan didn't want to look for durant on the list, he was like 2 clicks away
This is true for some reason. It's like no matter what amazing mind-boggling shyt he does, Westbrook doesn't seem to present the same results as KD. KD's style of play wins games, but not Westbrook. When KD was without Westbrook he willed his team to the playoffs. Westbrook without KD puts up triple doubles but loses games. shyt is crazy to me
Here's the thing, the Cavs forced the ball out of Curry's hands, whereas the Warriors wanted LeBron to beat them, and not have him pass to open shooters - which ultimately was the best option given his jumpshot had fallen off a cliff and he ended up averaging 36 points on 33 shots.
It also doesn't explain all the points and open looks Curry created through being double/triple teamed with the Warriors capitalizing off more ball movement.
In the first half of the series (as I stated before):
Warriors starters (besides Curry) were 46 from 124 (37%)
Cleveland starters (besides LeBron) were 43 from 107 (40%)
They Cavs still had a higher FG% as a unit despite the Warriors starters having more open looks. The FG% margin would've been greater if the Warriors starters (w/ LeBron) had less open looks and the Cavs starters had more open looks (w/ Curry).
On paper they were, but the Cavs starters were MUCH better in the first half of the series. Better offense and better defense. The moment they actually started making open shots - the series was over.
And every point that players like Draymond, Bogut, Green and Barnes scored were a direct result of something Curry did. In fact the Cavs role players actually had to create more for themselves when they were playing with LeBron because the Warriors' defensive scheme was more man-to-man as opposed to the Cavs' junk/halfcourt/top PNR scheme on Curry.
And look back and see how many times the Warriors players had open looks when Curry was on the floor.
Which just goes to show that the Cavs role players played considerably better on the offensive end, considering they outplayed the Warriors starters in the first half of the series despite not being 'offensively competent' against "more defensive firepower".
The Cavs defense was arguably better than the Warriors during the postseason. The advantages LeBron had on defense was the fact that his team had a great defensive gameplan designed to drive the ball outta Curry's hands and leave streaky shooters open. It worked more or less for the first three games, until the Warriors countered with bringing Iggy into the starting lineup.
You're speaking like somebody that didn't watch the Finals.
The Cavaliers are exposing the big problem with the Warriors' offense
If the Warriors actually made open shots in the first three games, we wouldn't even be having this conversation.
The Warriors starters were missing shots when NOBODY was guarding them. The Cavs wouldn't be trying to trap/heavy hedge LeBron behind the 3-pt line in attempt to get the ball outta his hands before he had a chance to put up a three. They'd give him a shooting cushion and they'd stay on the shooters - so explain how they would have more open shots given all this?Switch those lineups, and Lebron gets the advantage of the switch in every. single. instance. And Klay/Green/Iggy/Barnes and company would be making WAY more open shots with Lebron because....who the hell on the Cavs would be guarding him?
Maybe they'd just throw Delly at him.
KD 
@DoubleClutch you got like 5 GEORGE paul threads you wanna change your thread title subjects a bit?
@DoubleClutch you got like 5 GEORGE paul threads you wanna change your thread title subjects a bit?
This is the only Paul George thread I know of
This is the only Paul George thread I know of
You sure u ain't change the thread title name then?
Cool Hand Luka
Pro
Thought this was a Paul George thread not a warriors/cavs thread breh