historicity of jesus

Dafunkdoc_Unlimited

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Bud Bundy said:
to true but my complaint was that no one from the time of agustus said anything about a man coming back to life in Jerusalem.

Augustus was dead for almost 20 years before Jesus was executed. Why would they say anything about it if it hadn't happened yet?​
 

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Bud Bundy said:
:ohhh:

23 September 63 BC – 19 August 14 AD

well no one from the time of Tiberius.

Tiberius died in 37 CE. Pliny the Younger was raised by his uncle, Pliny the Elder (23 CE-79 CE). Pliny the Elder would have been about 10 years old when Jesus was executed and 14 when Tiberius died.

Why didn't he tell his nephew that the whole story was a fabrication?​
 

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Tiberius died in 37 CE. Pliny the Younger was raised by his uncle, Pliny the Elder (23 CE-79 CE). Pliny the Elder would have been about 10 years old when Jesus was executed and 14 when Tiberius died.

Why didn't he tell his nephew that Jesus didn't exist and wasn't executed?​

pliny the younger was not there.

why didn't pliny the elder write about jesus in his encyclopedia. :lupe:

i would think resurrection would be something to write about.
 

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Bud Bundy said:
pliny the younger was not there.

why didn't pliny the elder write about jesus in his encyclopedia. :lupe:

i would think resurrection would be something to write about.

As explained earlier, Pliny the Elder was 10 years old when that happened and Christianity was just one cult of thousands. Nothing important to write about.

Pliny's writing wasn't concerned with happenings in Judea, only Rome and it's wars with Germania, so not writing about Jesus in the Encyclopedia is a red herring.

The real question is: Why didn't he tell his nephew (or anyone else) that the whole thing was false?​
 

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As explained earlier, Pliny the Elder was 10 years old when that happened.

The real question is: Why didn't he tell his nephew (or anyone else) that the whole thing was false?​

:what:

what does him being 10 years old have to do with it. This man is living in a time a person coming back to life. Yet he does not think to write it down in his book about the natural world.

something is fishy here. :popcorn:

Also Pliny the younger regard Christians as superstitious and makes no mention of believing in christ.

Don't know why you decided to bring him into this convo.

Plinys letter to Trajan
It is customary for me, sir, to refer to you in all matters wherein I have a doubt. Who truly is better able to rule my hesitancy, or to instruct my ignorance? I was never present at examinations of Christians, therefore I do not know what is customarily punished, nor to what extent, nor how far to take the investigation. I was quite undecided; should there be any consideration given to age; are those who are however delicate no different from the stronger? Should penitence obtain pardon; or, as has been the case particularly with Christians, to desist makes no difference? Should the name itself be punished (even if crimes are absent), or the crimes that go with the name?

Meanwhile, this is the method I have followed with those who were brought before me as Christians. I asked them directly if they were Christians. The ones who answered affirmatively I questioned again with a warning, and yet a third time: those who persisted I ordered led [away]. For I have no doubt, whatever else they confessed to, certainly [this] pertinacity and inflexible obstinacy ought to be punished. There were others alike of madness, whom I noted down to be sent to the City, because they were Roman citizens. Soon in consequence of this policy itself, as it was made standard, many kinds of criminal charges occurred and spread themselves abroad. A pamphlet was published anonymously, containing the names of many

Those who denied that they were or ever had been Christians, when they swore before me, called on the gods and offered incense and wine to your image (which I had ordered brought in for this [purpose], along with images of the gods), and also cursed Christ (which, it is said, it is impossible to force those who are real Christians to do) I thought worthy to be acquitted. Others named by an informer, said they had been Christians, but now denied [it]; certainly they had been, but had lapsed, some three years ago, some more; and more than one [lit. not nobody] over twenty years ago. These all worshiped both your image and the images of the gods and cursed Christ.

They stated that the sum of their guilt or error amounted to this, that they used to gather on a stated day before dawn and sing to Christ as if he were a god, and that they took an oath not to involve themselves in villainy, but rather to commit no theft, no fraud, no adultery; not to break faith, nor to deny money placed with them in trust. Once these things were done, it was their custom to part and return later to eat a meal together, innocently, although they stopped this after my edict, in which I, following your mandate, forbade all secret societies

All the more I believed it necessary to find out what was the truth from two servant maids, which were called deaconesses, by means of torture. Nothing more did I find than a disgusting, fanatical superstition.

Therefore I stopped the examination, and hastened to consult you. For it appears to me a proper matter for counsel, most greatly on account of the number of people endangered. For many of all ages, all classes, and both sexes already are brought into danger, and shall be [in future]. And not only the cities; the contagion of this superstition is spread throughout the villages and the countryside; but it appears to me possible to stop it and put it right. Certainly the temples which were once deserted are beginning to be crowded, and the long interrupted sacred rites are being revived, while food from the sacrifices is selling, for which up to now a buyer was hardly to be found. From which it may easily be supposed, that what disturbs men can be mended, if a place is allowed for repentance.

it appears ole pliney himself did not believe in JC nor confirms or denys that he ever existed.

What evidence do you have that he knows jesus chirst existed. :popcorn:
 

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Bud Bundy said:
:what:

what does him being 10 years old have to do with it. This man is living in a time a person coming back to life. Yet he does not think to write it down in his book about the natural world.

J was dead before he was a teenager and there were more interesting things to write about than some Jewish criminal being executed. It only seems important 2,000 years later.

Bud Bundy said:
Also Pliny the younger regard Christians as superstitious and makes no mention of believing in christ.

Don't know why you decided to bring him into this convo.

Because he had access to a PRIMARY SOURCE......his UNCLE.

Bud Bundy said:
What evidence do you have that he knows jesus chirst existed. :popcorn:

You have just shot your own argument in the foot.

:popcorn:
 

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J was dead before he was a teenager and there were more interesting things to write about than some Jewish criminal being executed. It only seems important 2,000 years later.



Because he had access to a PRIMARY SOURCE......his UNCLE.



You have just shot your own argument in the foot.

:popcorn:



jewish criminal killed not interesting true

jewish criminal coming back to life is fukking interesting.

it seems to me his uncle does not metion jesus becasue your right there was more interesting things going on

and yet again where in that letter does he even mention that he belives in JC.

I can write about Scientology until the i die does not mean i believe in them.
 

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Bud Bundy said:
jewish criminal killed not interesting true

jewish criminal coming back to life is fukking interesting.

it seems to me his uncle does not metion jesus becasue your right there was more interesting things going on

and yet again where in that letter does he even mention that he belives in JC.

I can write about Scientology until the i die does not mean i believe in them.

No one is stating that anyone 'believed in' Jesus. Only that they did not question his existence. That argument doesn't come into being until 1800 years later and that is what is being addressed in this thread.​
 

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No one is stating that anyone 'believed in' Jesus. Only that they did not question his existence. That argument doesn't come into being until 1800 years later and that is what is being addressed in this thread.​

in that letter where does he mention JC. :popcorn:

seems to me he is complaining about Christians.
 

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Why would he? His job was to persecute, interrogate and execute Christians for heresy. He wasn't concerned with their beliefs, only their renunciation.​

so then why did you bring him up if he does not prove your point. :mjpls:

my point is no one from the time that jesus is suppose to have lived talks about jesus.

from year one to 30 or 36 no one talks about how a jew came back to life.

you bring up that because the Pliny the elder does not tell pliny the younger that jesus never existed that is proof of his existence. :why:

all evidence points that Pliny the elder never heard of Jesus Christ so there was nothing to tell his nephew.
 

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Bud Bundy said:
so then why did you bring him up if he does not prove your point. :mjpls:

Why didn't he say that Jesus didn't exist? THAT is my point.

Bud Bundy said:
my point is no one from the time that jesus is suppose to have lived talks about jesus.

from year one to 30 or 36 no one talks about how a jew came back to life.

Why would Roman officials write about anything that happened in a Jewish cult in the 1st Century?

Bud Bundy said:
you bring up that because the Pliny the elder does not tell pliny the younger that jesus never existed that is proof of his existence. :why:

No, that's just proof that he didn't believe Jesus did NOT exist or didn't care enough to write about him.

Bud Bundy said:
all evidence points that Pliny the elder never heard of Jesus Christ so there was nothing to tell his nephew.

Just because he doesn't mention him doesn't mean he never heard of him. He doesn't mention Christians, either, but we know they existed.​
 
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