High school was pointless

[Serious]

im not saying my system is perfect by any means. just starting up conversation about the school systems.

but i do believe we put a focus on too many irrelevant topics in high school. way too much history, maybe keep in 2 years of math and science, but everyone doesnt need to know chem and bio to the extent its taught. u could put those in 1 class. and physics needs a year.

This sh*t is fundamental.

I don't why people in this country are sohh damn anti-academic.

Basic biology and chemistry are fundamental to life. These aren't even hard classes to pass. If someone moderately pays attention and shows up to class frequently they can pass these classes rather easily with a B- at minimum.

No excuses and I aint offering no damn apology.....

How the heck, you can you go through without life a basic understanding of what atoms are, what empty space is, what a double helix is(ATGC), how cells and organs in the body work, u=q -w, quantum mechanics (being in two different places at the same damn time ) etc...

Math is universal, life is nothing but random numbers and statistics. Yet we should dumb down the teaching of higher math

 

[tru_m.a.c]

High School should have these classes as requirement, in addition to science, maths, English, social studies:


Critical Thinking
Intro to Philosophy
Personal Finance and Financial Responsibility
Constitutional Law (i.e., what your rights are)
Local Law
Local Government
Nutrition, Diet and Exercise Education

you'll never get around guys like this......isn't that a shame....

 

[tru_m.a.c]

Basic biology and chemistry are fundamental to life. These aren't even hard classes to pass. If someone moderately pays attention and shows up to class frequently they can pass these classes rather easily with a B- at minimum.

No excuses and I aint offering no damn apology.....

I mean, folks don't even realize that something like cooking food is an exercise in biology, chemistry and physics

its not really rocket science, that shyt is practical in every day life

but in high school its taught like rocket science and pure magic so folks get

 

[daze23]

or folks don't appreciate the history that is taught to them

a lot of this thread seems to be people that didn't take in or understand what they were taught. I guess you can blame some of that on the way these subjects are taught. but if you were in school with a IDGAF attitude, then some of it is on you

 

[Brown_Pride]

you'll never get around guys like this......isn't that a shame....

Santorum: Obama "A Snob" For Wanting Everyone To Go To College - YouTube

and people were fukin clapping...

 

[Serious]

a lot of this thread seems to be people that didn't take in or understand what they were taught. I guess you can blame some of that on the way these subjects are taught. but if you were in school with a IDGAF attitude, then some of it is on you

Tell me why I wasn't surprised when someone like 50centstan said he didn't learn sh*t in hs or college.

Was anyone here really surprised.

I'll wait for his stupid response. Me, personally I learned alot in hs and college. And don't knock any of what i've learned. Sadly, most people have the 50centstan mindset.

 

[Lord Beasley]

you'll never get around guys like this......isn't that a shame....

Santorum: Obama "A Snob" For Wanting Everyone To Go To College - YouTube

pause @ :15

its one cac in there not clapping like

 

[Serious]

you'll never get around guys like this......isn't that a shame....

Santorum: Obama "A Snob" For Wanting Everyone To Go To College - YouTube

GTFO, this guy was running for president....

 

[No1]

For sure. THe only thing is that they grow regardless of what they do so I'm not sure what you're getting at here. Kids are going to grow in and out of school both mental and physically as individuals, i'm not sure i'm getting the point you were trying to make.

The point I'm making is simple. You cannot subject students to that much time in a classroom or towards putting that much efforts towards school and not stunt their growth in some capacity. What you're describing is akin to the Tiger-Mother mode of teaching. Those kids are often socially awkward and lack people skills. What I'm saying is, that there should be balance. You're assuming that they will grow up regardless of the rigors of schooling. But how much time are you leaving for that? I'm saying this as someone who did summer programs.

I agree.
I could see that

i'm not sure how you reconcile saying school should be shorter with saying summer break is to long and then holding the hands of students to do homework while at the same time saying they need to grow.

It's quite simple really. And unfortunately, what you're saying is the problem. The current educational system has nothing to do with any legitimate scientific basis. As far as I know, school is set up the way it is based on what we came up with a century ago to work around harvesting time and shyt in a lot of places. So that kids would still be available. But you're subscribing to this outdated thinking that kids should be in school for countless hours. While ignoring that if a kid is in school from 8 to 3 PM, plays sports and then spends two to four hours on homework, they have a longer workday than YOU DO. Yet, they have more distractions than you ever did growing up. Quite frankly, parents like you frustrate almost as much as the parents that don't care. The type of parents that still buy into that old way of viewing education. Do you know that school days are shorter in in many of the places that are beating us in education? It's to the point. Children are taught what they need to be taught while their attention is still at a maximum. As far as having kids do their homework at school? You call that hand holding? Do hear yourself? Let's see, what's easier...get people to tutor after school when that equals the afternoon or when that means they have to be late to pick up their own kids?

Let's see, kids have parents who aren't involved in their education or couldn't help them if they wanted to, plus numerous distractions. But let's not put it in the hands of the educators to make sure they get the work done. More importantly, that's where the individualized attention can come from.

Finally, it's common sense that children are out of shape and spend too much time on line. I'm saying if you tell a kid that they get out of practice at 6 PM and then they have 3 hours of homework to do, as opposed to them doing it before that, you're doing them a disservice. Parents need to awake to the generation that we're in. I don't get what's not reconciable about that. Shorter, more focused school days and tell time off during the summer, so whatever hours they may lose do to the shorter days, will be made up and they'll cover more material anyway.

How do you teach a kid spanish when he doesn't speak it for 3 whole months of the year every year?

For sure every child is different and a cookie cutter approach to education is part of what got us in this mess in the first place. Also part of that is the lack of parental involvement and the complete falling away from expectations on everyone's parts (teachers, students, parents, society.)

That's fine and all, and parent should be involved. But that's the point. We need to try our best to eliminate those differences in resources.

agreed.

I disagree here though. HOW we think is just as important as what we think about. Teaching a kid to appreciate their ability to reason is one of the greatest gifts you can give a child IMHO. A general philosophy class should be required IMHO.

No, did you miss where I said a logic class is fine, but all of those general philosophy classes that TUH is talking about are wrong? That's just tickling his fancy and producing the type of society he wants. The fact is, logic, as a course is fine. I said that. Just like how I took sociology in high school and some took economics, etc. The point was that aside from a basic logic course, that type of stuff should not be mandated. A basic civics course and understanding of local and national laws and rights is fine. But philosophy should not be disconnected from normal coursework. The reasoning behind everything you learn should include its philosophical backdrop. High school students will get the most meaning out of it that way.


you would be indeed but in english you should be focusing more on the literary aspects of it along with your ability to read and comprehend and develop your own ideas. This is similar but not the same thing as studying philosophy. BOTH IMHO are important. I disagree. Of course you're focusing on the literary aspects, but everything is intertwined. Why are we taking physics, biology, etc.? What were these men trying to prove? What is their reasoning, their hypothesis, their basis? Why are kids so disengaged? Half the reason is because they don't see any greater meaning in what they're learning. More importantly, you can't teach everybody, everything with the amount of time you have in school. You have to choose, and I weigh those other things more heavily. Philosophy classes can be electives. I would've taken it.

Furthermore, my high school was a magnet school and outperforms 99% of the private schools in our state. You're equating that curriculum with money and resources. No, it's just that. The curriculum and people willing to commit to it. We were predisposed to success in the first place.

I will agree it's not always about the money and an environment were success is the assumed norm vs the rare exception will always, IMHO, foster more success. It's one of the many contrasts I noticed in going to a affluent private school vs my publicschool friends. The assumption of success. College wasn't a goal it was an assumed step, don't get me wrong it was a big step but anything less really wasn't an option. 100% college admission rate. I'm not trying to say MONEY is the answer, but I also know 6-12 people per class helps foster the idea of success in students especially when the teachers actually know you and can help you, THAT is about the only time i'll say money really comes into play. Some of these class sizes in some of these schools is just fukin ridiculous. 28-34 people is just to many damn people.

My high school sent 99% of people to college with 24 students per class. Why? Because the students who went to that school were pre-selected based on an examination and grades. It was always assumed that we were going to college. That's what people are missing, The children who have parents willing to pay for them to go to private school, have a college disposition in the first place. It's not about the money, it's about the people. The school next door to us was also public and was better funded, 50% graduation rate.

I"m not sure how you arrived at me buying into that type of system; my post was more about how stark a contrast there was between people paying 20k a year for highschool vs public school in terms of rigor. Personally i think college costing anyone anything is a shame, it creates many invisible barriers and per my previous comment does less to foster true educational success than it does to promote it. I don't think competition in education is a bad thing per say, so long as the minimum standards are not only being met but exceeded. IF done correctly i think charter schools have a lot of potential...IF done correctly.

You were tacitly endorsing it from my iew.

on paper every kid here should be getting a decent education, private school or not. The problem is they are not. When you look at requirements for graduation and compare them to the actual kids graduating i'd be willing to bet 80+ percent of the graduates don't meet the minimum required knowledge to get past the 8th grade. THAT has nothing to do with free market that is just a fuked system.

No, there is a free market mentality to education. The mentality is that no one is entitled to a quality education and thus it is not anyone's responsibility when one gets a better education than another. You get what you can afford. It was the very basis of discussion in so many Supreme Court cases. Thurgood was trying to say that there is a right to education, and others on the court said no. That is why discrepancies in education is allowed. Because the idea is that, send your kid to the best school possible, there is no accountability to anyone else or to the nation as a whole.

i agree but arriving at engaged anything in education is difficult in this country for any number of reasons. fixing those reasons IMHO is the crux of the matter. I cannot think of ONE teacher who would NOT want an engaged student and family.

I've met plenty. Being a teacher should be harder and regarded with the same prestige as a doctor or lawyer. That's how its viewed overseas in many countries. Not here where it's a fall back for people who don't know else to do and just read from a book.

The shyt is sad but when I take my kids to school and walk them in to talk to their teacher just to see how they are doing the teachers always freak out the first few times thinking i'm coming to start shyt and not just plug myself into my kids education. Apparently it's just not done like that anymore.

It's done like that in affluent areas only. That's what some of the modern proponents of forced racial and socioeconomic integration in schools are talking about. Students would benefit just from the resources of having parents actively engaged in the curriculum.

Nor should we subject them to it. All that stuff I wrote about was far from busy work and the amount of things i learned from the research and such IMHO is worth more than anything i've learned post HS.

Well, I'm younger than you, so I'm telling from the perspective of a guy who only graduated from HS 5 years ago, if you ever approached me as a student (an honor student at that) with half that shyt you just said, I'd look at you like you were insane. I'd see no basis or purpose in it. You'd have an incredible sell job on your hands. Not that I didn't have to do extensive papers in college, but making a 15 year old write papers longer than a senior thesis is not happening. Mind you, students do have to give a presentation in front of members of our school department in order to graduate and we all take theatre and have to give speeches there, but that 20 min shyt you're talking about is something that would only work in a school of 100 people or something.

As far as charter schools? They are necessary because of the wrong way we approach public school and many of the most successful ones do EXACTLY what I told you public schools should do.

 

[Mowgli]

It was a good training ground to identify the type of people i hate.

 

[Lord Beasley]

a fukk nikka that's that shyt i dont like

 

[Brown_Pride]

The point I'm making is simple. You cannot subject students to that much time in a classroom or towards putting that much efforts towards school and not stunt their growth in some capacity. What you're describing is akin to the Tiger-Mother mode of teaching. Those kids are often socially awkward and lack people skills. What I'm saying is, that there should be balance. You're assuming that they will grow up regardless of the rigors of schooling. But how much time are you leaving for that? I'm saying this as someone who did summer programs.

I guess it would depend on what one’s idea of growing is. What should a kid grow up doing? I played sports had time for girls, relationships, tomfoolery, friends, movies, etc, etc. I’m far from socially akward, granted there were some who were but then those “types” of kids exist in every setting (at least that’s been my experience.) It also depends on the style of teaching. Keep in mind my parents were not really involved in my education in terms of actually keeping an eye on what I did. I understand that a lot of kids simply DGAF so I’m not saying my experience would be the same experience if all kids were subjected to the same coursework.

I went to said school on a scholarship so my success was “presumed” because I was semi intelligent, there were kids at this school dumb as rocks that are now leading VERY successful lives.

It's quite simple really. And unfortunately, what you're saying is the problem. The current educational system has nothing to do with any legitimate scientific basis. As far as I know, school is set up the way it is based on what we came up with a century ago to work around harvesting time and shyt in a lot of places. So that kids would still be available. But you're subscribing to this outdated thinking that kids should be in school for countless hours.

No not really. What I’m saying is kids should be engaged for countless hours and IMHO being engaged in a setting like school is better for most kids than being engaged in the streets. So given most options having a kid in school for a good chunk of time is better than not. What’s done with that chunk of time is the issue IMHO, and not the chunk of time.

While ignoring that if a kid is in school from 8 to 3 PM, plays sports and then spends two to four hours on homework, they have a longer workday than YOU DO.

clearly you’re not a parent. My day starts at 4 and ends at around 11. I got my kids beat six ways from Sunday in terms of work.

Yet, they have more distractions than you ever did growing up.

ya think? Like what. What distractions do they have that can’t be limited or controlled. You act like parents aren’t doing what I’m saying on a daily basis and raising responsible, well adjusted kids.

Quite frankly, parents like you frustrate almost as much as the parents that don't care. The type of parents that still buy into that old way of viewing education. Do you know that school days are shorter in in many of the places that are beating us in education? It's to the point. Children are taught what they need to be taught while their attention is still at a maximum. As far as having kids do their homework at school? You call that hand holding? Do hear yourself? Let's see, what's easier...get people to tutor after school when that equals the afternoon or when that means they have to be late to pick up their own kids?

Ah see but now you’re blending shyt. I’m working within the system as it is now. So yeah, I have to inject myself into my children’s education because I want them to get the most out of what they have offered. Now if you’d like to talk about what’s best in an ideal world then there’s plenty of room for debate. And personally I find that my children having to do work outside of school helps to teach them time management, how to prioritize and focus on getting work done before play. Granted they are younger now and have about 15 mins a night, which I feel is about right.

Let's see, kids have parents who aren't involved in their education or couldn't help them if they wanted to, plus numerous distractions. But let's not put it in the hands of the educators to make sure they get the work done. More importantly, that's where the individualized attention can come from.

again there are two debates really. What is and what should be. What is…teachers probably serve the best for this role in most cases because a large portion of parents just don’t care or feel they have the time. IDEALLY a parent should be able to help….early on at least. My parents weren’t going to be helping me in anything past algebra 2, in these cases that’s when teachers should be available for assistance and more teachers should be available, meaning more money is needed.

As for me right now I’d rather help my kids vs their teacher. But I recognize I am able to do this and some parents are not. Never the less though homework does more than solidify what was learned in class that day, it helps to develop other intangibles…again when done correctly.

Finally, it's common sense that children are out of shape and spend too much time on line. I'm saying if you tell a kid that they get out of practice at 6 PM and then they have 3 hours of homework to do, as opposed to them doing it before that, you're doing them a disservice. Parents need to awake to the generation that we're in. I don't get what's not reconciable about that. Shorter, more focused school days and tell time off during the summer, so whatever hours they may lose do to the shorter days, will be made up and they'll cover more material anyway.

My comment on reconciliation still stands.
On one hand you’re saying TO MUCH school is busy work but TOO MUCH SUMMER is wasted. Personally I like the “year round” thing we got going here in AZ. Longer school sessions, shorter school breaks…but they occur more frequently. IMHO a busy kid will benefit more than a kid who just sits around. I let my kids relax during the summer with the understanding that when school starts it’s time to get back to business. All the computer time they played (4 hours some days) is down to MAYBE 1/2 hour except for on the weekends I’ll let it go up. I’m a big believe in work hard play hard. The flip side is you don’t work you don’t play.

I’ve a philosophy that’s worked great for me and any kid I’ve helped mentor. Work hard the 8-10 years you’re in school and financially your life is easier for the next 60 or so years.
OR
Fuk around for 10 years and work like a dog for 60.

How do you teach a kid spanish when he doesn't speak it for 3 whole months of the year every year

outside of partial vocab you really don’t. Language is a slightly different animal though. I’m big on summer school though for the reason I suspect you are. 3 months is a shyt load of time for doing nothing.

]No, did you miss where I said a logic class is fine, ….

I think I did. I agree with what you’re saying then.

My high school sent 99% of people to college with 24 students per class. Why? Because the students who went to that school were pre-selected based on an examination and grades. It was always assumed that we were going to college. That's what people are missing, The children who have parents willing to pay for them to go to private school, have a college disposition in the first place. It's not about the money, it's about the people. The school next door to us was also public and was better funded, 50% graduation rate.

again I’ll say that this is something I’ve pointed out time and again when asked the biggest difference in success at my school vs the public schools I know of. The assumption of success. Expectations. When you expect much you achieve much. When you expect little you achieve little. Money does help though.

You were tacitly endorsing it from my iew.

I endorse whatever gets the job done. Nothing more, nothing less.

No, there is a free market mentality to education. The mentality is that no one is entitled to a quality education and thus it is not anyone's responsibility when one gets a better education than another.

From a public standpoint EVERYONE is entitled to the same education. From a money standpoint if you can afford to pay someone to do a better job, even a perceived better job then it’s your right to do so IMHO. BUT, there has to be a standard and that standard should be high, anything beyond that and you’re reaping the rewards of your success (or luck).

You get what you can afford.

That’s life more or less.

I've met plenty. Being a teacher should be harder and regarded with the same prestige as a doctor or lawyer. That's how its viewed overseas in many countries. Not here where it's a fall back for people who don't know else to do and just read from a book.

agreed

It's done like that in affluent areas only. That's what some of the modern proponents of forced racial and socioeconomic integration in schools are talking about. Students would benefit just from the resources of having parents actively engaged in the curriculum.

BS. I don’t live in an affluent area. It’s done where parents care enough to do it. EVERY teacher I’ve come in contact with in regards to my children WISHES there were more parents who took an interest in their kids education. There is no law preventing one from getting involved.

Well, I'm younger than you, so I'm telling from the perspective of a guy who only graduated from HS 5 years ago, if you ever approached me as a student (an honor student at that) with half that shyt you just said, I'd look at you like you were insane.

Well first it was measured madness. Outside of the first assignment in the summer which IMHO was intended to shock us than anything it all started slow. It’s actually funny I remember my first English class freshman year and the teacher assigned a 200 word essay. EVERYONE in the class was like WTF!!! How is that even legal, etc, etc, etc. Before the end of the year 2 pages of work was and still is like nothing. The homework was and is still one of the hardest things I’ve ever done…admittedly it was a shyt ton, but then I also always had a full schedule.

I'd see no basis or purpose in it. You'd have an incredible sell job on your hands. Not that I didn't have to do extensive papers in college, but making a 15 year old write papers longer than a senior thesis is not happening. Mind you, students do have to give a presentation in front of members of our school department in order to graduate and we all take theatre and have to give speeches there, but that 20 min shyt you're talking about is something that would only work in a school of 100 people or something.

200 or so actually. You had a year to more or less write it, all the big assignments, such as the 78 pager, where 50 were required, where long assignments. You had an advisor that would check in with you to see how it was going how your research was going, etc ,etc, etc. I wrote my paper on prison gangs so had many interviews and public record request from cases and such. It was very insane. Keep in mind I gave you the BIG assignments. Most other papers were between 5-7 pages…though they were pretty frequent, if there was ever a point that you weren’t writing a paper for a class it was a rarity.

As far as charter schools? They are necessary because of the wrong way we approach public school and many of the most successful ones do EXACTLY what I told you public schools should do.

There are just as many private schools that do what I did that have success rates. Apples and oranges though.

I don’t think there’s anything wrong with your ideas, I’m sure they’d work. Just saying my educational experience was a good one and I learned a shyt ton from it and given the choice of what I saw was available and what I actually got and you’d have a hard time selling me on anything else.

 

[stealthbomber]

breh....we don't have enough history if you ask me

or folks don't appreciate the history that is taught to them

hence why we still have to explain to a democrat what makes them a democrat and explain to a republican what makes them a republican

college history professors spend most of their time rewiring our brains cause we're so ill prepared

your still not getting the point. classes would be taught as history, math, science, and practical uses.

for example. lets say you take a politics class. you learn the history of politics, you learn how about polling, sampling error, ect (other statistical functions), you would actively debate politics in class and find out about what you really believe.

I simply thought the worse part about high school was that you couldn't advance faster than the course

then the second worse part is that, you pretty much went through 13yrs of schooling, only to get to college and realize you didn't want to learn that subject anymore. Instead of putting everyone on that same rigid ass schedule, why don't you let me intern/shadow for 6 months when I'm 16???

Think about it this way. You're told that grad school has more of an impact AFTER you have work experience. So how hasn't this concept trickled back into high school???

The major problem is the assembly line setting of our education. Don't even get me started on the NYS regents system. Our teachers hyped us since 7th grade about how important those test were. In 11th grade me and my dudes googled that shyt and confronted one of our teachers like "yo you straight up lied to us." Not even half of the states recognize the regents test. And fukkn St. Johns THROWS YOUR SCORES AWAY. So why, am I mentally focused on that? Those test were easy, but still, thats valuable time I could've spent out in the world actually applying skills.

agreed. thats what i mean, we learn so much thats useless as we become older. not that it was a bad thing to learn, but many of the classes teach us things that we would have learned anyway in the course of adulthood.

This sh*t is fundamental.

I don't why people in this country are sohh damn anti-academic.

Basic biology and chemistry are fundamental to life. These aren't even hard classes to pass. If someone moderately pays attention and shows up to class frequently they can pass these classes rather easily with a B- at minimum.

No excuses and I aint offering no damn apology.....

How the heck, you can you go through without life a basic understanding of what atoms are, what empty space is, what a double helix is(ATGC), how cells and organs in the body work, u=q -w, quantum mechanics (being in two different places at the same damn time ) etc...

Math is universal, life is nothing but random numbers and statistics. Yet we should dumb down the teaching of higher math

couldnt agree more. but a large part of the idiocy of our country has to do with television though. people watch shyt on tv all day. jersey shore love and hip hop 24 hour news channels american idol

science channel, natl geographic, comedy central, discovery, history>>>>

internet as a means for news>>>>>

 

[thekingsmen]

There is no critical thinking in school. You can't question the books given... Especially History. What world some of you posters live in is not real. SOL( Standard of Learning) has nothing to do with learning but to test students on questions the people who created SOL don't know the answers to.

(x^3 + 5x^2+6x)/(x^2 - x - 12) isn't going to help you keep your lights on.

 

[KingX]

education and knowledge are two of the most important things in life. Education should be reformed entirely and should be made a high priority. Education should never ever be sold as a commodity, it's like hustlin backwards. Just think about how far we've gotten with technology today, and then think about how much more technologically advanced we would be with if everyone in the last hundred years was fairly and properly taught. I really believe that we have been misled intentionally to hate and ignore education, by the elite so we can be more easily controlled.