GZA or Lupe...who's the better lyricist?

[mobbinfms]

The “Lupe is too lyrical and makes his shyt overly intricate” angle ain’t even true, lol, yall just say that because you yourself can’t follow what he’s saying. Just because 5 feet of water in the pool is too deep for you because you’re a midget don’t mean it’s deep to me…I’m 6’2 little man.

Lupe even said on the podcast with Royce that he likes to say a lot without saying too much, or say something extremely potent and poignant with multiple interpretations but say it in the simplest way possible…so even if you didn’t catch it you can still enjoy it just on face value and it sounding good. Lupe is 100% not a “Rhyming big words and not saying shyt” ass rapper, lol, he probably says the most when the rhyming itself is actually simple. “bytch Bad”, for example. Etc…

This post contradicts itself. How could his rhyming be simple and straightforward and also have multiple meanings and interpretations?
I thought you had to go to Harvard to be a Lupe fan?
I thought a big aspect of what made Lupe great, to his fan base, was trying to catch all the different interpretations of what he might be saying and the entire verse/song metaphors where the meaning isnt readily apparent?

 

[Chip Skylark]

I been up front about my stance unlike most in this thread breh

You got dudes in this thread being far more disrespectful toward GZA than I been toward Lupe. I never once said he ain't talented or a great lyricist

All I disputed is that being flashier or packing more words into each bar automatically equal being a superior lyricist

You can equate it to any other form of writing. Some of the best poetry and novels use a stripped down straightforward writing style. The most impactful book you ever read probably ain't the one that used the biggest words and most literary devices

Being precise and maximizing the impact of every word ain't dumbing down. In many cases it's the opposite. If it takes you five pages to communicate what I can in one, that don't make you a better writer. Same way if I can convey in four bars what take you a whole verse, that don't make you a better lyricist

Point out the people who’ve disrespected GZA and said it and point out the ones who’ve disrespected Lu! I guarantee you it’s literally 1 or 2 people. I’ve been very vocal about my love for both.

There’s different forms of lyricism and Lu has been very precise on a different array of topics. The greatest writers of all time have been able to include an array of messages in their works while also have one clear linear tone. From Homer, Alexander Durmas, Virgil, Jane Austin, Emily dikkinson, Robert Hayden, Toni Morrison, and Gil Scott Heron. He’s also been direct too.

How can we compare lyricist when people don’t even listen to the guys being compared? It’s obvious

 

[spliz]

This post contradicts itself. How could his rhyming be simple and straightforward and also have multiple meanings and interpretations?
I thought you had to go to Harvard to be a Lupe fan?
I thought a big aspect of what made Lupe great, to his fan base, was trying to catch all the different interpretations of what he might be saying and the entire verse/song metaphors where the meaning isnt readily apparent?

See this is the thing. I fukk wit Lupe. I think he's an amazing lyricist. But I also understand why people don't fukk wit him like that. Him , his fans, his rhymes, and his music can be pretentious as fukk. Like I don't feel I could ever be friends wit that nikka. Lol. He can also at times be cryptic to the point of stupidity. Lol

 

[threattonature]

Can we kill the bullshyt about Lupe being overly complex or overly lyrical like that's his only style. A lot of his tracks can be appreciated on surface value. It's only when you really dig deeper and realize there is additional layers under the lyrics. Especially on the first two albums. I've always said F&L was damn near an entire album about drug dealing that no one would realize just listening and taking the lyrics as is yet can still be appreciated as a great album. That's what's so dope about Lupe to me. Now he definitely has tracks meant to be dissected that are doing too much lyrically but that's not his only style.

 

[NormanConnors]

GZA never been considered nerd rap. Nice try tho.

Cats confusing chess with Nerd shyt

 

[NormanConnors]

Can we kill the bullshyt about Lupe being overly complex or overly lyrical like that's his only style. A lot of his tracks can be appreciated on surface value. It's only when you really dig deeper and realize there is additional layers under the lyrics. Especially on the first two albums. I've always said F&L was damn near an entire album about drug dealing that no one would realize just listening and taking the lyrics as is yet can still be appreciated as a great album. That's what's so dope about Lupe to me. Now he definitely has tracks meant to be dissected that are doing too much lyrically but that's not his only style.

That's a bit of a reach, I could see with the casual listener but cats with an ear that appreciate thought process/lyrics would peep that. Lu was blatant with some of the rhymes just to make sure that point was known.

shyt, different album but superstar is a dualty/comparison to getting into heaven = making it big/selling your soul even.

At this point cats know what to look for/expect with Lu's music.

The problem is with the overly extensive Lupe fans that think he is the only guy nice with the concepts . GZA himself is a master also in that regard, which is why I dont understand why cats in here are treating him like a scrub.

 

[Chip Skylark]

Cats confusing chess with Nerd shyt

What? There’s been tons of articles written about them specifically GZA and how he’s a science nerd even RZA himself called them nerds before lol

2018

Why the Wu-Tang Clan wear their nerdiness with pride

Wu-Tang Clan, who burst onto the American hip-hop scene in 1993, has fostered an unlikely connection between rap and geek culture.

www.afr.com

"The nerd was the guy that was bullied, whose difference caused him to be outcast, to be picked on," RZA said, "the nerds are winning right now."

“And he reads a story about the Wu, about how we're nerds. When he comes out, he finds me and says, 'I went to jail because I couldn't be a nerd.”

2016

Secret Science Nerds: Wu-Tang Clan's GZA is a True Genius

nerdist.com

How Wu-Tang Clan Were Rap’s Pioneering Geeks

From the Slums of Shaolin comes one of rap's nerdiest hip-hop groups.

www.inverse.com

2015

5 Celebrities You Didn’t Know Were Science Geeks | The Science Explorer

[object Object],

thescienceexplorer.com

2013



The YouTube channel is literally called Nerdist

That's a bit of a reach, I could see with the casual listener but cats with an ear that appreciate thought process/lyrics would peep that. Lu was blatant with some of the rhymes just to make sure that point was known.

shyt, different album but superstar is a dualty/comparison to getting into heaven = making it big/selling your soul even.

At this point cats know what to look for/expect with Lu's music.

The problem is with the overly extensive Lupe fans that think he is the only guy nice with the concepts . GZA himself is a master also in that regard, which is why I dont understand why cats in here are treating him like a scrub.

Who has said GZA is a scrub? Point them out lol

Just like I told the other guy point the person out that has said some disrespectful stuff

 

[Billy Ocean]

What? There’s been tons of articles written about them specifically GZA and how he’s a science nerd even RZA himself called them nerds before lol

2018

Why the Wu-Tang Clan wear their nerdiness with pride

Wu-Tang Clan, who burst onto the American hip-hop scene in 1993, has fostered an unlikely connection between rap and geek culture.

www.afr.com

"The nerd was the guy that was bullied, whose difference caused him to be outcast, to be picked on," RZA said, "the nerds are winning right now."

“And he reads a story about the Wu, about how we're nerds. When he comes out, he finds me and says, 'I went to jail because I couldn't be a nerd.”

2016

Secret Science Nerds: Wu-Tang Clan's GZA is a True Genius

nerdist.com

How Wu-Tang Clan Were Rap’s Pioneering Geeks

From the Slums of Shaolin comes one of rap's nerdiest hip-hop groups.

www.inverse.com

2015

5 Celebrities You Didn’t Know Were Science Geeks | The Science Explorer

[object Object],

thescienceexplorer.com

2013



The YouTube channel is literally called Nerdist



Who has said GZA is a scrub? Point them out lol

Just like I told the other guy point the person out that has said some disrespectful stuff

Wu-tang was never considered nerd rap. Try again. Lupe is nerd rap.

 

[Soymuscle Mike]

Has any person who voted for Gza (like I did) even said that it's because Lupe is "too lyrical/deep"?

I only see Lupe voters running with this narrative

 

[Chip Skylark]

Wu-tang was never considered nerd rap. Try again. Lupe is nerd rap.

Articles and writers say otherwise. Reddit pages dating back to its inception say otherwise

And that’s nothing wrong with that.


Dog you’re the most unbiased and delusional person in here lol

You’re the reason we can’t even have a convo about rap cause you’re so hard on and being disrespectful lol

Are you from Chicago? Did Lupe take your girl or something? What’s going on lol

 

[NormanConnors]

What? There’s been tons of articles written about them specifically GZA and how he’s a science nerd even RZA himself called them nerds before lol

2018

Why the Wu-Tang Clan wear their nerdiness with pride

Wu-Tang Clan, who burst onto the American hip-hop scene in 1993, has fostered an unlikely connection between rap and geek culture.

www.afr.com

"The nerd was the guy that was bullied, whose difference caused him to be outcast, to be picked on," RZA said, "the nerds are winning right now."

“And he reads a story about the Wu, about how we're nerds. When he comes out, he finds me and says, 'I went to jail because I couldn't be a nerd.”

2016

Secret Science Nerds: Wu-Tang Clan's GZA is a True Genius

nerdist.com

How Wu-Tang Clan Were Rap’s Pioneering Geeks

From the Slums of Shaolin comes one of rap's nerdiest hip-hop groups.

www.inverse.com

2015

5 Celebrities You Didn’t Know Were Science Geeks | The Science Explorer

[object Object],

thescienceexplorer.com

2013



The YouTube channel is literally called Nerdist



Who has said GZA is a scrub? Point them out lol

Just like I told the other guy point the person out that has said some disrespectful stuff

Talking about raps, and check the threads the level of GZA disrespect is unbelievable.

 

[Billy Ocean]

Articles and writers say otherwise. Reddit pages dating back to its inception say otherwise

And that’s nothing wrong with that.


Dog you’re the most unbiased and delusional person in here lol

You’re the reason we can’t even have a convo about rap cause you’re so hard on and being disrespectful lol

Are you from Chicago? Did Lupe take your girl or something? What’s going on lol

Wu-tang wasn't ever considered nerd rap. I deal with reality. Never met a Lupe fan in person but I'm sure if I did it'd be a nerd.

And I'm not being disrespectful. Problem with y'all Lupe nerds is that anything that doesn't align with y'all belief that son is God's gift to rap y'all try to denounce it. Son trash. I was hoping a few of you woulda offed y'allselves when he didn't make that Billboard Top rapper list. I knew you cried seeing Kendrick make Top 5.

 

[FruitOfTheVale]

Can we kill the bullshyt about Lupe being overly complex or overly lyrical like that's his only style. A lot of his tracks can be appreciated on surface value. It's only when you really dig deeper and realize there is additional layers under the lyrics. Especially on the first two albums. I've always said F&L was damn near an entire album about drug dealing that no one would realize just listening and taking the lyrics as is yet can still be appreciated as a great album. That's what's so dope about Lupe to me. Now he definitely has tracks meant to be dissected that are doing too much lyrically but that's not his only style.

I agree with this take. Lupe took on the task of being lyrical in a poppy mainstream format during his time on Atlantic and, for the most part, he made digestible music with a lot of subtlety that added up to a second meaning for more discerning listeners. The label clearly had a lot to do with the beat selection, hook choices, features, etc.

GZA, on the other hand, comparatively had a much shorter period where he was tasked with/cared about making mainstream music. Following Words From The Genius, pretty much everything he dropped was Wu Tang’s avant-garde street brand of underground. Liquid Swords came about with multiple uncompromising artists at the head of the table (i.e. RZA and GZA) and, obviously, a time period prior to rap becoming extremely commercialized. GZA didn’t have to be subtle about the shyt he actually wanted to say in order for his album to get a release date.

That being said, in my personal opinion as a listener, GZA’s lyrics on LS literally have a “sharpness” that comes from wanting to cut the listener deep with every line, whether it’s out of anger or out of clarity. There are no ballads, no soft implications, no double meaning records with the exception of “Labels” which is really one meaning only (fukk the industry) if you’re the intended listener. There IS an overarching concept of mastery of craft via the movie samples, but that concept is shown directly through the craft of the lyrics themselves so there isn’t a lot of wiggle room for interpretation of it.

I say all that to say, I’ve listened to all of Lupe’s indie projects since he left Atlantic, and I’ve yet to hear an album from him where his lyrics really cut deep on every track. In fact, he had more of that sort of quality on F&L on tracks like “The Cool” than he has on a lot of his later material, but at the same time, F&L had its share of ballads and filler label shyt. A decent amount of his later material has felt more “display” (i.e. Mural) or “high concept” (i.e. the majority of Drogas Wave) and less “take no prisoners”. He does have a few tracks in the latter category (I.e. faux nem) but, more often, his tracks blend all three into a smorgasbord of sharp lines sandwiched between technical display and obscure reference. I want Lupe to make an album where he takes no prisoners first and foremost, he hasn’t done it yet and at times I don’t think he ever will because he’s embraced the fan base that enjoys the lyrical display over the lyrical assault.

 

[Chip Skylark]

Talking about raps, and check the threads the level of GZA disrespect is unbelievable.

Self proclaimed nerds are he ones saying they’re rap nerds.

And no one has posted the disrespectful comments. There’s been two posters being disrespectful in here billy and I don’t remember the other guy but when I ask for people to point them out nobody does it

 

[Chip Skylark]

Wu-tang wasn't ever considered nerd rap. I deal with reality. Never met a Lupe fan in person but I'm sure if I did it'd be a nerd.

And I'm not being disrespectful. Problem with y'all Lupe nerds is that anything that doesn't align with y'all belief that son is God's gift to rap y'all try to denounce it. Son trash. I was hoping a few of you woulda offed y'allselves when he didn't make that Billboard Top rapper list. I knew you cried seeing Kendrick make Top 5.

What are you talk g be about? Lol I’ve been the one praising GZA in here

I see why you’re on a lot of peoples ignore list