Guaranteed minimum income in Switzerland $2,750 / mo

[Poitier]

The best analogy I could come up with is this...

The new farming techniques that prefaced the Renaissance such as four season farming and being able to farm more land, allowed those who would have been field workers to become thinkers, artist, etc

Imagine if Da Vinci or Newton had to farm just to make a living when we have the structure to support innovation? It makes no sense. What Switzerland is doing is just the modern day application of that school of thinking.

Absolutely no reason to come up with a public works program that is basically all paperwork and no meaningful impact when you could supplement these people and help them create beneficial things for their societies.

 

[The Hovering Heed]

Initially ,the general idea seems great. The backside still needs dissection.

But to have the comfort to receive income for being a citizen , can create new wonders for the swizz.

The reason why technology and civilization advanced in human history was because humans went from hunters&gathers to agriculture. This gave humans more time to sit and come up with inventions that ultimately got us here today.

Not saying everybody will invent are use time appropriate, but there will be some.

Also i haven't read through comments , so bear with me.

 

[Meta Reign]

Mods, why did you change the name of my thread? Or was it merged with other threads on the same issue?

 

[Meta Reign]

Switzerland is going to be an official hell hole in about . . . Mmm. . . 15 years?

 

[BillBanneker]

sounds like alaska

I'm surprised no one has mentioned this yet

 

[Hiphoplives4eva]

I don't know why people hate capitalism

ignorance of history

 

[TLR Is Mental Poison]

It's definately not something I would advocate for different economies

I think the things that make this a no go for Switzerland make this a no go everywhere.

3.33k a year is nothing in Switzerland really

Then they should be looking to make living more affordable; not subsidizing expensive COL.

4. The % of the population that would abuse this is almost certainly less than the percentage of the population that would benefit, just like any other govt program

Yes but the % of the population that would benefit from this is still way smaller than the % that doesn't. If I'm one of the brehs making $80K a year, paying the 50% total tax rate or whatever, how am I benefiting from this program? If I am an employer of folks in low skill fields, how much will I have to boost pay to entice people who are already making an equivalent of $17/hr full time?

Grown ass men/women working at say Swiss McDonalds may quit, but people who really need the extra income will start working there. The people who quit their jobs may pursue things they would have not pursued if they were bound by these obligations, and this may have a innovation and creativity boom effect on the economy.

They may, or they may not. History says they probably won't.

Again this is all speculation, this is something totally unprecedented and I admire the Swiss for even thinking about it, maybe it's a brilliant idea or maybe it isn't, but it's definitely one worth trying.

I think it's a novel idea but I'm not sure the Swiss or you are really thinking it through. If the problem is too high of a COL, the solution is finding out what is driving it, not subsidizing it so it can go higher. That is how they tried to fix college tuition here, and we see where that got us. I am glad they are trying to do something, and they are way more forward thinking than us, but I don't think this is the right way to go about it. It doesn't make much sense.

Wouldn't this put the power in the people's hands instead of the other way around?

Think about here in the U.S. how many people work shytty jobs just to get by and live check to check. People are at the mercy of their employers, so they'll get paid less to do more work and there isn't a lot they can do to counteract it. In this scenario, nobody's gonna get paid half to do the work of two like in this country, since they'll just walk out and no one else would be waiting to fill their shoes. We'd all have the power to say, "I'm not doing that shyt unless I'm treated fairly and properly paid and no one else will either. Good luck doing that on your own."

Capitalism is modern feudalism.

In this scenario, pretty much nobody who can't get a job paying more than this $17/hr will work. All on the backs of people who do work. There are other ways to reform labor dynamics without paying people not to work. Germany has a good system for example, with the state intertwined unions. The workers still have power, but they have to work to keep it

 

[Poitier]

If anyone can show me that people prefer to relax over being productive as some form of human psychology then some of you would have points. I naturally think people prefer to be productive, but for meaningful things.

COL isn't too high in Switzerland. They enjoy a significantly higher quality of life. This is about making sure MEANINGFUL things are occurring, not about some oppressive socialist regime where everyone is suffering.

The college analogue doesn't work because you're talking about government subsidies to a narrow sector of the economy. An individuals use of their minimum income will vary to extreme degrees on whatever they spend it on. I don't think inflation will play a huge role but that's the biggest question with this.

History? Show me an analogue anything remotely like this. Like I said, the Renaissance was a fairly successful era in Human advancement.

If anything, people being able to hold out against corporations underpaying common employees, overpaying board members and plutocracy will shore up because the individual has the ultimate leverage.

 

[babylon1]

If anyone can show me that people prefer to relax over being productive as some form of human psychology then some of you would have points. I naturally think people prefer to be productive, but for meaningful things.

COL isn't too high in Switzerland. They enjoy a significantly higher quality of life. This is about making sure MEANINGFUL things are occurring, not about some oppressive socialist regime where everyone is suffering.

The college analogue doesn't work because you're talking about government subsidies to a narrow sector of the economy. An individuals use of their minimum income will vary to extreme degrees on whatever they spend it on. I don't think inflation will play a huge role but that's the biggest question with this.

History? Show me an analogue anything remotely like this. Like I said, the Renaissance was a fairly successful era in Human advancement.

If anything, people being able to hold out against corporations underpaying common employees, overpaying board members and plutocracy will shore up because the individual has the ultimate leverage.

nah bruh. i'm good playing video games and smoking weed all day. you do you. i'll do me

 

[Chris.B]

Looks like they are seceding from this prison planet

http://www.pri.org/stories/2013-10-14/2750-month-every-adult-guaranteed-switzerlands-considering-it

It's unsustainable.

 

[FAH1223]

It's unsustainable.

But the proposed measure in Switzerland would be much greater, adding up to more than $30,000 in guaranteed annual income for each adult.

In recent studies in Africa and India, Widerquist said giving people unconditional monetary gifts often increases labor.

"A basic income, in a way, frees you to improve your skills and your efforts and do something that actually makes a bigger contribution to economy," he says.

No date has been set for the national referendum on Switzerland's guaranteed income proposal.

Don't speak so soon.

 

[Chris.B]

Don't speak so soon.

no where has this system been deployed before...It is guaranteed to fail and create chaos.
There is no incentive to work if I can get free money...

 

[FAH1223]

no where has this system been deployed before...It is guaranteed to fail and create chaos.
There is no incentive to work if I can get free money...

you say that right now, but say you were getting that much, I know you're still going to be contributing to the economy by buying stuff

 

[Chris.B]

you say that right now, but say you were getting that much, I know you're still going to be contributing to the economy by buying stuff

Money don't grow on trees. At some point the free money people will be getting is will run out.

That's when things will get interesting.

 

[Marvel]

Switzerland is not a dumb country. They have remained largely neutral during some of the fiercest battles in Europe. They are responsible for a good portion of technological advances when compared to their population. They are a multi-ethnic European country that has remained pretty stable. Albert Einstein was a citizen of Switzerland and made major advances in physics during his time there. They invest in human capital. Many of Europe's best and brightest moved to Switzerland because they create an environment that fuels advancements and innovation. I think that with their education system and culture, they are a country that will see future gains in various areas by giving additional funds to adults to pursue their passions. People that are passionate are true innovators and creators.