Greece financial crisis | Latest : Deal reached with even tougher conditions for Greece.

[newworldafro]

I'm not sure if Greece's situation would count. This wasn't a totalitarian regime that was kicked out, it was a democratically elected government that mismanaged Greek resources. What kind of precedent would that set? If the Democrats take both the house and senate next election, could they claim that any debt incurred under the Republican majority years is odious? It would seem like there would have to be extenuating circumstances (war debt, revolutionary debt, etc) to classify Greece's debt as odious, and the situation in which Greece accepted the bailout money was more or less the same as any other country that accepted the bailout money. The government was democratically elected, so I don't think it can be legitimately claimed that they weren't acting in the interest of the people.

That video missed a point which is derivatives being part of the debt. Its similar to totalitarian regimes spending on lavish goods not for the people.
1) In other words, entities will place bets on a countries' bonds, also called derivatives.
2) These bets have no standing, they are like people in a casino making bets on a sports team. They are like you having flood insurance, but someone makes a bet on if you will have to use your flood insurance or not.
3) Yet the country is liable for the derivative betting if they don't pan out ......ie. Greece is on the hook for people/entities making bets on them being able to repay their bonds...that is larger more contemporary term for "odious debt". It is is toxic debt.......i.e. Toxic Asset Relief Program a.k.a T.A.R.P. of 2008, when we bailed out a bunch of banks for derivative bets placed mainly on the housing market

4) Iceland said no they wouldn't repay back "odious debt" and jailed bankers.

http://www.naturalnews.com/048777_Greece_European_Union_global_derivatives.html

$26 Trillion In Global Derivatives About To Implode If Greece Bankruptcy Unfolds
Thursday, February 26, 2015 13:37

"Run by radical leftists"

He further notes:

Adding to the drama is the fact that the Greek government is rapidly running out of money. According to the Wall Street Journal, Greece is "on course to run out of money within weeks if it doesn't gain access to additional funds, effectively daring Germany and its other European creditors to let it fail and stumble out of the euro."

Now, there have been previous moments of crisis involving Greece, obviously. But things may be different this time around, Snyder warns. The new government is being run by radicals, and their entire campaign was based on ending the austerity that was imposed by the bailout, which was worth more than $270 billion.

"If they buckle under the demands of the European financial lords, their credibility will be gone and Syriza will essentially be finished in Greek politics," he wrote. "But if they don't compromise, Greece could be forced to leave the eurozone and we could potentially be facing the equivalent of 'financial Armageddon' in Europe. If nobody flinches, the eurozone will fall to pieces, the euro will collapse and trillions upon trillions of dollars in derivatives will be in jeopardy."

How many trillions? According to the Bank for International Settlements, more than $24 trillion in currency derivatives are tied to the value of the euro.

To put that in perspective, Snyder notes, the U.S. government is on pace to spend about $4 trillion in fiscal 2015. The entire U.S. national debt, while very large itself, is only $18 trillion.

"So 26 trillion dollars is an amount of money that is almost unimaginable," he wrote. "And of course those are just the derivatives that are directly tied to the euro. Overall, the total global derivatives bubble is more than 700 trillion dollars in size."


Learn more: http://www.naturalnews.com/048777_Greece_European_Union_global_derivatives.html#ixzz3fJivE6We

 

[Futuristic Eskimo]

More articles that don't understand derivatives

 

[Scientific Playa]

The content of any article or publication reflects the biases of the source. If you applied the same scrutiny to your sources as you do with the corporate media, you wouldn't have such a black and white view of the situation.

i doubt if you even took the time to read and evaluate the article.

 

[King Kreole]

I've been saying it for 5 years...

The model the Greeks need to follow is Iceland not Ireland...Even the IMF basically agreed by saying austerity will not work for Greece...

90% of the previous bailout package went to the bankers...All the Greeks actually paid off was the interest...

Unfortunately I believe the Greek government is spineless they are giving into the banker fear mongering...

But Iceland did undergo austerity. The novel thing they did was let the banks go bust, but they also raised taxes and dramatically cut public spending, leading to a 20% drop in disposable income. Their refusal to pay back creditors caused them severe harm to their international reputation; a level of harm that Greece surely couldn't survive for the next few years. Also, it's easy to say "fukk off" to paying back foreign creditors if we think of them as callous billionaire bankers, but a lot of the cost is borne by private citizens and companies, including charities. This is why the Eurozone's poorer nations are pissed at Greece. They're the ones who are going to be paying for it.

Basically, Iceland said "fukk off" and receded into themselves for 3 years. Greece is trying to say "fukk off" then go around looking for emergency handouts.

 

[Futuristic Eskimo]

i doubt if you even took the time to read and evaluate the article.

I glanced over it. Stopped reading when the author blamed rising sovereign spreads on Greek debt on the rating agencies You aren't qualified to assess the validity of the authors claims.

 

[Scientific Playa]

I glanced over it. Stopped reading when the author blamed rising sovereign spreads on Greek debt on the rating agencies You aren't qualified to assess the validity of the authors claims.

i see you're in emotions more interested in attacking me than nefarious financial events occurring in the world.

 

[Futuristic Eskimo]

i see you're in emotions more interested in attacking me than nefarious financial events occurring in the world.

You post bullshyt articles without understanding what is in them. Don't use the "You're mad" defense. That shyt is weak

 

[The Fukin Prophecy]

But Iceland did undergo austerity. The novel thing they did was let the banks go bust, but they also raised taxes and dramatically cut public spending, leading to a 20% drop in disposable income. Their refusal to pay back creditors caused them severe harm to their international reputation; a level of harm that Greece surely couldn't survive for the next few years. Also, it's easy to say "fukk off" to paying back foreign creditors if we think of them as callous billionaire bankers, but a lot of the cost is borne by private citizens and companies, including charities. This is why the Eurozone's poorer nations are pissed at Greece. They're the ones who are going to be paying for it.

Basically, Iceland said "fukk off" and receded into themselves for 3 years. Greece is trying to say "fukk off" then go around looking for emergency handouts.

In the case of Greece the effects of austerity are just as brutal as defaulting and arguably will last longer...If the Greeks accepted the deal they voted on Sunday (even though it wasn't still on the table) they would be in the hole till 2030 with no light at the end of the tunnel...This is according to the IMF btw...

I can't fathom how that option is better than going into isolation, defaulting, cutting spending and implementing reforms like Iceland did...

 

[newworldafro]

https://www.google.com/#q=greeks work more hour than germany

http://www.forbes.com/fdc/welcome_mjx.shtml

http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-17155304

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/.../16/greeks-work-harder-than-germans-who-knew/

Greeks work more hours than most people in Europe including Germany.....so that stereotype that they are just welfare lovers and that is reason for this crisis is a false narrative.

 

[The Fukin Prophecy]

https://www.google.com/#q=greeks work more hour than germany

http://www.forbes.com/fdc/welcome_mjx.shtml

http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-17155304

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/.../16/greeks-work-harder-than-germans-who-knew/

Greeks work more hours than most people in Europe including Germany.....so that stereotype that they are just welfare lovers and that is reason for this crisis is a false narrative.

The biggest issue with the Greeks and where the lazyness shyt comes from is the pension system...Retirement age for full pension is/was 55 and government employees could retire at age 45 with full pension...That is beyond ridiculous and that's why you have small countries like Latvia rightfully pissed off that they're asked to shoulder Greek debt...

 

[newworldafro]

The biggest issue with the Greeks and where the lazyness shyt comes from is the pension system...Retirement age for full pension is/was 55 and government employees could retire at age 45 with full pension...That is beyond ridiculous and that's why you have small countries like Latvia rightfully pissed off that they're asked to shoulder Greek debt...

I'm honestly not mad at that .....

But I understand why that could be a problem... damn age 45 full pension...

 

[King Kreole]

In the case of Greece the effects of austerity are just as brutal as defaulting and arguably will last longer...If the Greeks accepted the deal they voted on Sunday (even though it wasn't still on the table) they would be in the hole till 2030 with no light at the end of the tunnel...This is according to the IMF btw...

I can't fathom how that option is better than going into isolation, defaulting, cutting spending and implementing reforms like Iceland did...

Yeah, that's the route that I would take if I were Greece. It's the best of bad options imo. But can Greece even go into isolation though? I know they rely on imports for fuel, but how many other industries are they relying on imports for? It doesn't seem like a very self-sufficient country with a ton of natural resources. And if they go back to the drachma, it's gonna kill their imports. These guys really seem fukked.

 

[newworldafro]

Yeah, that's the route that I would take if I were Greece. It's the best of bad options imo. But can Greece even go into isolation though? I know they rely on imports for fuel, but how many other industries are they relying on imports for? It doesn't seem like a very self-sufficient country with a ton of natural resources. And if they go back to the drachma, it's gonna kill their imports. These guys really seem fukked.

Greece actually has natural gas out in the sea http://www.forbes.com/sites/christophercoats/2013/12/12/how-real-is-greeces-oil-and-gas-future/

 

[The Fukin Prophecy]

Yeah, that's the route that I would take if I were Greece. It's the best of bad options imo. But can Greece even go into isolation though? I know they rely on imports for fuel, but how many other industries are they relying on imports for? It doesn't seem like a very self-sufficient country with a ton of natural resources. And if they go back to the drachma, it's gonna kill their imports. These guys really seem fukked.

They're big on agriculture, metals and tourism...Crete does have natural gas pockets but I believe they are untapped...I also remember hearing they do have a sizeable oil well but its shared with Turkey...Since those two despise each other nobody is drilling...

 

[TLR Is Mental Poison]

The esteemed, all knowing, above the radicals on either equally extreme side, balanced, reasonable centrist has spoken. All ya'll left wingers take notes, okay?

Dont hate

Greece is the end result of giving everyone everything and asking for nothing back. Joining the EU gave them a credit line they had no plans to pay down. And a lot of left leaners have a similarly irresponsible abstract grasp of money and budgets.

I am all for public healthcare, universities, etc. 100%. But just because it's "public" doesn't mean everyone who uses it doesn't have to pay for it. But I dont want to derail this thread.