Good Dad vs Poor Dad Puffin On That Hooka & Nico Pack... Official (3)Lakers vs (6)Timberwolves 1st Round Playoff Thread

Who you got?

  • Wolves in 4

    Votes: 4 4.1%
  • Wolves in 5

    Votes: 10 10.3%
  • Wolves in 6

    Votes: 39 40.2%
  • Wolves in 7

    Votes: 10 10.3%
  • Lakers in 4

    Votes: 2 2.1%
  • Lakers in 5

    Votes: 11 11.3%
  • Lakers in 6

    Votes: 14 14.4%
  • Lakers in 7

    Votes: 10 10.3%

  • Total voters
    97

Squirrel from Meteor Man

Veteran
Supporter
Joined
Apr 16, 2015
Messages
27,585
Reputation
3,575
Daps
123,343
Luka needs to spend all off-season on Ozempic. Once he loses enough weight, it's time to gain muscle. I ain't never seen a superstar so :flabbynsick:

@Gil Scott-Heroin says it’s nothing wrong with him being overweight and out of shape, it’s his teammates fault that he can’t consistently play defense or close games
 

Pure Water

Veteran
Joined
May 12, 2014
Messages
13,673
Reputation
2,300
Daps
67,559
Joined
Apr 30, 2012
Messages
87,036
Reputation
9,730
Daps
235,198
You're arguing a hypothetical, and I'm not sure why... JJ rested his starters in game 2 and 3 and the bench was solid. That ACTUALLY happened. Collectively they've been at worst neutral for the series. There was really no reason to not go to them for a half. If the bench had been consistently wetting the bed and blowing leads it would be a different story, but that's not whats been happening.
Brotha, you're the one who's arguing a hypothetical.

I'm arguing because you can't prove your theory to be true (much less the reason why they found themselves down 1-3), it makes no sense focusing on what you think they should've done. They rested the starters during the 1st half of this game, and the bench didn't do shyt; Gabe went 0-2 and was a -7 and Vando didn't do anything on offense and was a -3.

Yet you're arguing that JJ should've played them more minutes in the second half, where they likely would've been net-negatives too.

Gabe and Vando had the worst plus/minus on the Lakers during the 1st half and were both scoreless. Go figure.

It would be a completely different thing, altogether, if they had played well and were contributing to the Lakers building a lead, but they were doing the opposite. If JJ continued to give them minutes in the second half, and the Lakers still ended up losing, there'd be discussions about why did they get so many minutes when they were dragging the team down?
 
Joined
Apr 30, 2012
Messages
87,036
Reputation
9,730
Daps
235,198
The Lakers' offense found a groove playing those 5 guys for the entire 3rd quarter, taking a 94-84 lead.

Now, @ghostwriterx, how could you possibly argue that going back to playing bench guys, who were scoreless and net-negatives during the 1st half was the difference between them winning/losing? You argue that giving Bron and dem a breather would've been beneficial, which isn't wrong, in isolation, but what would you be saying if a Gabe/Vando lineup gave up that double-digit lead within two minutes while the starters were resting?

What would this board be saying?

They'd be blaming JJ for taking out the starters instead of just continuing to run with the lineup that was working.
 

ghostwriterx

Superstar
Supporter
Joined
May 17, 2012
Messages
6,757
Reputation
790
Daps
14,315
Brotha, you're the one who's arguing a hypothetical.

I'm arguing because you can't prove your theory to be true (much less the reason why they found themselves down 1-3), it makes no sense focusing on what you think they should've done. They rested the starters during the 1st half of this game, and the bench didn't do shyt; Gabe went 0-2 and was a -7 and Vando didn't do anything on offense and was a -3.

Yet you're arguing that JJ should've played them more minutes in the second half, where they likely would've been net-negatives too.

Gabe and Vando had the worst plus/minus on the Lakers during the 1st half and were both scoreless. Go figure.

It would be a completely different thing, altogether, if they had played well and were contributing to the Lakers building a lead, but they were doing the opposite. If JJ continued to give them minutes in the second half, and the Lakers still ended up losing, there'd be discussions about why did they get so many minutes when they were dragging the team down?


In game 2
1st Half
Naw -5
Reid -12
Donte -14

Guess Finch should've benched them in the 2nd.:jbhmm: Oh wait, in the 2nd.
Naw +13
Reid +6
Donte -3
:unimpressed:

Meanwhile tonight, Naz and Donte had the worst +/- for the Wolves in the 1st half and shot 1-8. Suffice it to say they were decidely better in the 2nd half.


It's almost as if bench players are inconsistent in their production/performance. Shocking! Not to mention what kind of message are you sending to your bench after you remove them from the rotation after a bald stretch? Doesn't exactly inspire confidence going forward, unless you just plan on going 48 with the starters the rest of the way?:mjcry:


All these posts, because you refuse to "concede" playing 5 starters 24 straight minutes is a bad idea. (which is the only point I'm making):russ:
 

ghostwriterx

Superstar
Supporter
Joined
May 17, 2012
Messages
6,757
Reputation
790
Daps
14,315
The Lakers' offense found a groove playing those 5 guys for the entire 3rd quarter, taking a 94-84 lead.

Now, @ghostwriterx, how could you possibly argue that going back to playing bench guys, who were scoreless and net-negatives during the 1st half was the difference between them winning/losing? You argue that giving Bron and dem a breather would've been beneficial, which isn't wrong, in isolation, but what would you be saying if a Gabe/Vando lineup gave up that double-digit lead within two minutes while the starters were resting?

What would this board be saying?

They'd be blaming JJ for taking out the starters instead of just continuing to run with the lineup that was working.


To be clear, I'm not saying that LOL. I have no idea what would happen. Though you seem pretty certain they would continue to suck.:yeshrug: I think you have to trust your bench, somewhat. I mean 5-10 minutes seems like the bare mininum. If they can't get it done/wet the bed and the starters can't make up for it, then yeah you're going to lose.
 

Bar Razor

All Star
Joined
Mar 11, 2022
Messages
2,250
Reputation
1,131
Daps
11,183
Lebron James is 40 years old man lol

What do you really expect? Playing basketball is hard & tiring :russ:
I wouldn’t have a problem with it if his Stans treated it like hey it’s amazing what he’s doing at this age and left it at that. But if he got to the Finals and somehow managed to win it would be oh that’s why he’s the undisputed GOAT. Luka could score 40 ppg and he’d still get Finals MVP. Blah blah blah.

Can’t have it two ways. He’s GOAT because he’s playing well at his age but then we he doesn’t play well hey what do you expect he’s 40.
 
Joined
Apr 30, 2012
Messages
87,036
Reputation
9,730
Daps
235,198
Meanwhile tonight, Naz and Donte had the worst +/- for the Wolves in the 1st half and shot 1-8. Suffice it to say they were decidely better in the 2nd half.
Except the difference with Naz and Donte is, they both play starters minutes regularly and they're both infinitely better than Gabe and Vando. They're good enough that you can ride their highs/lows.

Or do you seem to think that if Naz and Donte were on the Lakers, JJ wouldn't have played them in the second half, and if Gabe and Vando were on the T'Wolves, that Finch would play them starters minutes, no matter what?

That's the difference between having bench guys who you can play, regardless, and bench guys, who you can't. Minny has them and the Lakers don't.
Not to mention what kind of message are you sending to your bench after you remove them from the rotation after a bald stretch? Doesn't exactly inspire confidence going forward, unless you just plan on going 48 with the starters the rest of the way?:mjcry:
It was less about removing them from the rotation and more running with what was working at the time (which JJ said in the presser).

The Lakers were down 1-2 in the series, and at halftime of Game 4 they were trailing (with the bench not contributing anything meaningful). Then along comes the 3rd quarter and the Lakers offense gets a new lease on life, taking a 10-point lead. Now, given the reluctancy of heading back to LA being down 1-3, you can understand why JJ wanted to keep riding that lineup that built that lead, rather than bringing in a lineup that didn't do shyt in the 1st half and could've easily given up that lead within a blink of an eye.

I imagine the gameplan was to play that lineup to start the 4th (and continue that momentum) and then try and get Luka/Bron some rest at a point during that quarter, except it didn't eventuate.

Sometimes it can be like that.

It's hard to fault that strategy when, again, the alternative would've likely ended in the same result. They've shyt the bed in every 4th quarter this series, so it wasn't like what happened in this 4th quarter was somehow different to the other three games when the starters rested.

Game 1, 4th quarter - Lakers lose 17 to 23
Game 2, 4th quarter - Lakers lose 13 to 20
Game 3, 4th quarter - Lakers lose 20 to 30.

They rested the starters in all those 4th quarters and it didn't make a difference. Go figure.
To be clear, I'm not saying that LOL. I have no idea what would happen. Though you seem pretty certain they would continue to suck.:yeshrug: I think you have to trust your bench, somewhat. I mean 5-10 minutes seems like the bare mininum. If they can't get it done/wet the bed and the starters can't make up for it, then yeah you're going to lose.
If you have no idea what would've happened, why are you so convinced it was the wrong decision to play the starters that long?

I'm arguing that the alternative likely wouldn't have made any difference. There's no indication it would have. The bench played bad in the 1st half and the Lakers have lost every 4th quarter before this game, even when the starters rested. There's no evidence, whatsoever, that has transpired over this series that resting the starters during the 4th would've changed the outcome. They've tried that before and it hasn't worked.

No matter what they've tried, they just don't have the gas in the 4th. And that can largely be contributed to not having a frontcourt.
 

Bar Razor

All Star
Joined
Mar 11, 2022
Messages
2,250
Reputation
1,131
Daps
11,183

HE AND BRON PLAYED 46 MIN.

JJ ROLLED THE DICE
WITH A DESPERATION MOVE
IN A MUST WIN
AND CRAPPED OUT

:devil:
:evil:

Well, I'm Eazy-E, the one they're talkin' about
Dude tried to roll the dice and just crapped out
Police tried to roll, so it's time to go
I creeped away real slow and jumped in the six-fo'
 

ghostwriterx

Superstar
Supporter
Joined
May 17, 2012
Messages
6,757
Reputation
790
Daps
14,315
Except the difference with Naz and Donte is, they both play starters minutes regularly and they're both infinitely better than Gabe and Vando. They're good enough that you can ride their highs/lows.

Or do you seem to think that if Naz and Donte were on the Lakers, JJ wouldn't have played them in the second half, and if Gabe and Vando were on the T'Wolves, that Finch would play them starters minutes, no matter what?
I mean, not starters minutes, but... minutes? lol yeah

It's hard to fault that strategy when, again, the alternative would've likely ended in the same result. They've shyt the bed in every 4th quarter this series, so it wasn't like what happened in this 4th quarter was somehow different to the other three games when the starters rested.
I'm faulting the strategy because it's literally NEVER been tried before. Think that maybe there's a reason for that? It smacks of desperation and JJ thinking he's smarter than everyone else.


Game 1, 4th quarter - Lakers lose 17 to 23
Luka and Reeves played the entire 3rd. LeBron played 10 minutes. Collectively the starting 5 was horrible and the bench outplayed them. Game was essentially over going into the 4th, but regardless should probably just throw this game away because of the deficit in the 2nd.


Game 2, 4th quarter - Lakers lose 13 to 20
Luka, Rui and Reeves played the entire 3rd. LeBron got 7 minutes of rest.
Gabe was -4
Lakers basically held serve with LeBron playing half the quarter and maintained a 16 point lead.

Game 3, 4th quarter - Lakers lose 20 to 30.
Luka, LeBron and Austin were all in the minus in the 3rd and played heavy minutes.
Gabe, DFS and Vando were all neutral or in the positive.

They rested the starters in all those 4th quarters and it didn't make a difference. Go figure.
In the previous 3 games, the bench basically held serve in the second half. There is no history of them coming in and wetting the bed/blowing leads. So why go away from them?

If you have no idea what would've happened, why are you so convinced it was the wrong decision to play the starters that long?

I'm arguing that the alternative likely wouldn't have made any difference. There's no indication it would have. The bench played bad in the 1st half and the Lakers have lost every 4th quarter before this game, even when the starters rested. There's no evidence, whatsoever, over what has transpired over this series that resting the starters during the 4th would've changed the outcome. They've tried that before and it hasn't worked.

It was the wrong decision because you placed your starters in an unfamiliar and frankly untenable situation. There is zero chance you're getting your best from those guys going 24 straight minutes. Getting them some rest and hoping the bench can extend or maintain the lead is the obvious optimal strategy. It's silly to argue otherwise.

And to say it likely would't have made a difference in a one possesion game is ridiculous. Any number of things could've changed the outcome. How many games have you seen swung by big contributions from unlikely sources? And again with a 10 point lead it's not like they needed Gabe/Vando to come in and drop 20. I'd rather go into the 4th with a 5 point lead and two more minutes of rest for LeBron/Luka than with a 10 point lead and planning to play them the whole way.
 
Joined
Apr 30, 2012
Messages
87,036
Reputation
9,730
Daps
235,198
In the previous 3 games, the bench basically held serve in the second half. There is no history of them coming in and wetting the bed/blowing leads. So why go away from them?
The bench played their worst 1st half in this series; the starters had arguably their most productive quarter of the series in the 3rd.

Why abandon what worked in their best quarter of the series and go back to a lineup that didn't work during the 1st half?

You can't fault that, but then ignore the reality of everyone blaming JJ if he went away from that lineup to start the 4th and the second unit gave up that lead, which despite you ignoring that, was a realistic possibility. One that JJ likely weighed up. If the Lakers bench gives up a lead, then Bron/Luka have to exert even more energy to build it up again, which they haven't done in any 4th quarter of this series. It's been quite the opposite.

In fact, the theme of this series has been what the Lakers can't do in the 4th.
It was the wrong decision because you placed your starters in an unfamiliar and frankly untenable situation. There is zero chance you're getting your best from those guys going 24 straight minutes.
The gamble was once they built that 10-point lead, they could then build on it even more to start the 4th and then work in some periods of rest (or even come to a point where they force Minny to take out the starters when the game looks out of reach). It's not an ideal situation, but it's hard to argue against it being a strategy that put them in the best position to win.

They've struggled in every 4th quarter of this series to generate runs, so using whatever magic they found in the 3rd tonight and hoping it translated to the 4th is a reasonable gambit. If they had rested and came back during the 4th and couldn't make a shot, then everyone would be arguing why did JJ rest them and not ride the hot hand?
Getting them some rest and hoping the bench can extend or maintain the lead is the obvious optimal strategy. It's silly to argue otherwise.
No it's not.

This is outrageous, even for you.

There's zero indication/evidence that this was the obvious optimal strategy. Nothing in this game nor in any other 4th quarter has indicated as such. Did the bench prove they could maintain or extend a lead in the 1st half? Has the bench proven they could maintain or extend a lead in any other 4th quarter?

That is in not the least bit the most favorable strategy. Ain't no cotdamn way you can argue that with a straight face.
 
Joined
Apr 30, 2012
Messages
87,036
Reputation
9,730
Daps
235,198
So JJ Exotical decided he can't play the bench because they might lose the lead and instead ran 5 out there for a half where they lost the lead? I'm sure there's some numbers out there that show efficiency drops off a cliff for players playing 20 straight minutes
While that maybe true, has rest benefited the starters in all the other 4th quarters of this series when they still couldn't generate offense?

4th quarters with points of 17, 13 and 20.

It seems they struggle to get buckets no matter if they get rest or not during the 4th quarter. There seems to be a deeper issue at play, but maybe that's just me.

:hubie:
 

Trojan 24

Veteran
Joined
Apr 30, 2012
Messages
40,358
Reputation
4,269
Daps
152,843
Reppin
Just Win Baby
While that maybe true, has rest benefited the starters in all the other 4th quarters of this series when they still couldn't generate offense?

4th quarters with points of 17, 13 and 20.

It seems they struggle to get buckets no matter if they get rest or not during the 4th quarter. There seems to be a deeper issue at play, but maybe that's just me.

:hubie:

Okay let's play all 5 all 48 then for Game 4 so we can build a big lead for the 4th quarter collapse
 
Top