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Mr. Somebody

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I don't think that the so-called theists in here actually believe in God.

I know that if I believed in God and it was a cherished belief, I would examine all the facts to refute individuals like Napoleon.

I would not resort to insults, or pretend to have a superior enlightened understanding, or claim that even having the conversation was pointless, or say that the God I claim to KNOW exists is incomprehensible.

To behave like a fool in a debate of this manner would, IMO, be very disrespectful to the god I claim to worship.

That's why I think the so-called believers in here are not participating because of any genuine faith in God, but because they view Napoleon's persistent attack on religion (and therefore their traditions) as an irritation.
Psalm 14:1
To the choirmaster. Of David. The fool says in his heart, “There is no God.” They are corrupt, they do abominable deeds, there is none who does good.

Ephesians 4:18
They are darkened in their understanding, alienated from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them, due to their hardness of heart.

Jude 1:22
And have mercy on those who doubt;

2 Timothy 2:23
Have nothing to do with foolish, ignorant controversies; you know that they breed quarrels.
 

semtex

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Psalm 14:1
To the choirmaster. Of David. The fool says in his heart, “There is no God.” They are corrupt, they do abominable deeds, there is none who does good.

Ephesians 4:18
They are darkened in their understanding, alienated from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them, due to their hardness of heart.

Jude 1:22
And have mercy on those who doubt;

2 Timothy 2:23
Have nothing to do with foolish, ignorant controversies; you know that they breed quarrels.
THE BIBLE IS TRUE BECAUSE IT SAYS SO IN THE BIBLE :gladbron: GROUNDBREAKING!!
 
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You're attempting to state something as a fact citing contextual clues picked-up while reading, when the author had full use available of vocabulary that would be more easily discerned by listening audiences so there would be no possibility of ambiguity, thus, making the story easier to remember and pass down.

This was necessary since fully 95+% of the Biblical population was illiterate and this story comes from 'oral tradition'.

The story/text was to be proclaimed aloud to a group/crowd, not read in the privacy of your room to yourself.​
No, I'm attempting to point out that even the most muddled-up partaker of the narrative ceases to be confused by the time the narrator tells of how all living things (bar none) are destroyed, and all the mountains submerged. You seem to have a problem with a contextual revelation of erets only when it's convenient for you - i.e. the flood narrative. However, as can be seen erets is used extensively from the very first verse of the Bible. It is context that aids meaning. If erets in Genesis 1:1 is good enough for earth, then it's more unambiguous, within the narrative, in Genesis 9.
You're still misunderstanding. Their cosmology is why it cannot be a 'worldwide/global' flood. By using their worldview and historical/grammatical criticism, you find that: they knew of NO land further than the furthest camp/well/oasis/city/town, all on one disc-shaped continent, surrounded by a circular sea, under a dome with windows and gates, supported by pillars and mountains. The 'world' to them consisted of nothing further than their inhabited/observable area. Places such as Australia, Antarctica, the Americas, most of Africa, and most of Asia did not exist. Killing 'every living thing on Earth' and 'under Heaven' meant everything they knew to exist which was not much further than they could travel by walking along the bottom of their fishbowl. The author's 'world' =/= OUR 'world'. You've spent an inordinate amount of time criticizing a non-geographical, non-historical, non-scientific narrative for not being geographically, historically and scientifically accurate which is retarded. Like criticizing a Nike store for not selling Big Macs. The text being somehow 'inspired' by some 'entity' is irrelevant.

You're attempting to shift the goalposts. Poor form. This was the post that started this line of discussion:

"Supposedly your God flooded the world and killed everyone in it". The poster also added: If you're going to say that maybe that particular tale is skewered by the perspectives of the people who recounted it then that same rationale just apply to the WHOLE book.
To which you issued you issued the following: "Umm, hate to tell you, but the text doesn't state the whole world was flooded. Would you be willing to bet all your Coli cash that I'm mistaken?"

The point?
It isn't that the whole world couldn't have been flooded, but whether the Bible indicates, like Marcozen stated, that the Bible "God flooded the world and killed everyone in it". The text does indeed indicate that. So, yes, according to the Bible, God flooded the Earth, killing every living thing on earth. Not just in the general vicinity, but according to the Bible, every living thing on land and in the waters on earth. The Bible is clear that it wasn't some. There's absolutely no ambiguity here. The author wants it to be known that: a big magic boat was necessary, any living thing on earth (both land and sea animals) perished, and the waters receded after the magic 40 number of days and nights (a long time). No need to introduce superfluous claims on behalf of the Bible.

Arguing that the author's view on cosmology was wrong is nothing but a red-herring. By way of analogy: If Darwin wrote that Black people are a missing link between other apes and White people. It would be a fallacious argument to claim that because Darwin was wrong about human evolution, he didn't intend for his readers to interpret his writings in that way. It would be awfully convenient to claim ambiguity or metaphors to only the parts that didn't gel with reality.

If the believer (or non) just reads the text, the 'LORD' isn't making that statement.

2Timothy 316 All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,
 
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Dafunkdoc_Unlimited

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YoungMasterGold said:
No, I'm attempting to point out that even the most muddled-up partaker of the narrative ceases to be confused by the time the narrator tells of how all living things (bar none) are destroyed, and all the mountains submerged. You seem to have a problem with a contextual revelation of erets only when it's convenient for you - i.e. the flood narrative. However, as can be seen erets is used extensively from the very first verse of the Bible. It is context that aids meaning. If erets in Genesis 1:1 is good enough for earth, then it's more unambiguous, within the narrative, in Genesis 9.​

Within the narrative, the 'world' is not the same one in which we reside. This is understood by reading what their 'world' contains. This is why if one wishes to interpret the narrative to be identical to our 'world' one must read the text allegorically since our world is not in a bubble, shaped like a disc containing all civilizations and life forms on ONE continent surrounded by a circular sea. It isn't that the use of the word is 'convenient' for me, but what the author actually meant when he wrote/told the story. You seem to want the text to mean the world as we know it when that isn't the case at all. Genesis is a didactic poem and is to be read as such.
YoungMasterGold said:
You're attempting to shift the goalposts. Poor form. This was the post that started this line of discussion:

"Supposedly your God flooded the world and killed everyone in it". The poster also added: If you're going to say that maybe that particular tale is skewered by the perspectives of the people who recounted it then that same rationale just apply to the WHOLE book.
To which you issued you issued the following: "Umm, hate to tell you, but the text doesn't state the whole world was flooded. Would you be willing to bet all your Coli cash that I'm mistaken?"

The point?
It isn't that the whole world couldn't have been flooded, but whether the Bible indicates, like Marcozen stated, that the Bible "God flooded the world and killed everyone in it".

Marcozen's 'world' and the world of the Biblical authors were not the same. That is the point. Reading the text, literally, from the author's POV, could render the flood a 'worldwide' event, which would be the one area of land they knew to exist, rendering the flood a 'local' event. ALL the stories are skewed by the perspectives of the people who authored them because they are theological. Not scientific, historic, geographic, etc. Finding fault with the narratives because of what they are not written to be is 'poor form'.
YoungMasterGold said:
Arguing that the author's view on cosmology was wrong is nothing but a red-herring.

That's not my argument, but yours. If it's a red herring, then why are you using it? My argument is that the flood was a local event, literally and allegorically. Your argument is that their 'world' and ours are identical, but the text indicates that could not be the case.
YoungMasterGold said:
By way of analogy

No need to use an analogy. The text is right there along with their description of the 'world' as they knew it. They are not equivalent.​
YoungMasterGold said:
2Timothy 316 All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,

Profitable for teaching, reproof, correction and training in righteousness =/= Genesis was written to be a science/history/geography book.

It is a book of theology and should be read as such.
 
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Blackking

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epicurus.jpg
Maybe hes called God because he created.

If God exists, then what makes us believe we'd understand his characteristics?
 

Blackking

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It's a pretty big leap to attribute life to a "god" in the first place. :francis:
We have life, knowledge , awareness and consciousness.

We know that all of that can be reproduced and created by life.

we have no proof or knowledge that any of those things can be created by inanimate unconscious matter.

So, virtually the Only leap we can honestly make is that life came from a creator.
 

ThaBronxBully

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Funny I Was Just Thinking Today, If God Doesn't Make Mistakes How Come You See People Born With 6 Fingers, And That Extra Finger Serves No Purpose? If People Were Manufactured In Heaven And Sent Down A Conveyor Belt That Person Would Be Chucked In A Box Marked "Flawed" Like A Pair Of Jordans With A Crooked Jumpman

Thats A Manufacturing Mistake :francis:
 

FrederickDouglas

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We have life, knowledge , awareness and consciousness.

We know that all of that can be reproduced and created by life.

we have no proof or knowledge that any of those things can be created by inanimate unconscious matter.

So, virtually the Only leap we can honestly make is that life came from a creator.

And how do you think our creator obtained life, knowledge, awareness, and consciousness?

Since it cannot be automatic and is granted to whoever possesses it? :stopitslime:
 

SirReginald

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Put God in religion brehs :francis: I just believe God is God and I leave it at that. This comes from a non religious 20 year old btw.
 
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Blackking

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And how do you think our creator obtained life, knowledge, awareness, and consciousness?

Since it cannot be automatic and is granted to whoever possesses it? :stopitslime:
Well the Quran confirmed the universe was in a dense state then expanded.... for a good reference point look at the top cosmological model right now... big bang theory.

That's how the universe formed... but no scientific explanation can even begin to explain the initial state of the universe...

So nearly 14 billion years ago the dense period had a catalyst. What was the purpose , reason, or catalyst behind this expansion. Well we don't know according to scientists. And the question the other poster ask was about life.

I explained that about life...., but now you're asking me about whatever happened 14 bill years ago... which is ridiculous if you think about it. To ask that , when we dont even understand 95% of matter Right Now in the universe in current time.
ufdup.png


As far as allah or god or universal consciousness or whatever is concerned...

You're foolish for asking about its beginning because no theist states everything that exists has a cause; fyi, we believe everything that begins to exist must have a cause.

Just in case you're a simpleton ass nikka...

For example the properties of an atom simply are. Or mathematical truths have always existed. If the universe wasn't crafted, 8 +8 still would be 16.:francis:

Ntm you're committing a category fallacy
If you don't know what that is...

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_mistake

:stopitslime:
 
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