God

Chesirecatdaddy

All Star
Joined
Oct 24, 2013
Messages
6,178
Reputation
1,073
Daps
9,014
stick to the f'n topic , i already know what ibliss, devil , lucifer what ever name you choose to call him to be different from the rest.

god indeed has human attributes , its ok , he made us .
Everything was already answered. Once again you fail at inferring. You guys drain me. I'll chime in whenever I feel up for it again.
 

Jesus Shuttlesworth

I Got Game
Joined
May 2, 2012
Messages
11,989
Reputation
1,825
Daps
20,223
Reppin
Sovereignty
Yes how convenient that God isn't like a human...is that all?

A lot of these cats were raised Christian so they think of God as Jesus and/or some giant with a white beard, toga and sandals. Their lack of understanding is a direct result of false worship. But how many people go from Christian to atheist, because they realize the error of their ways, only to discover the truth that exists in Islam? They have been taught wrong so it's hard for them to even understand. Explain God and they say "how convenient." In other words your statement contained no fallacy and they have no rebuttal so they conclude you're making it up as you go along. But remember their entire concept of God has been warped by false worship.

They've taken steps but they're only halfway to the truth. The atheist says "there is no god." Isn't that half of the declaration?
 

Chesirecatdaddy

All Star
Joined
Oct 24, 2013
Messages
6,178
Reputation
1,073
Daps
9,014
A lot of these cats were raised Christian so they think of God as Jesus and/or some giant with a white beard, toga and sandals. Their lack of understanding is a direct result of false worship. But how many people go from Christian to atheist, because they realize the error of their ways, only to discover the truth that exists in Islam? They have been taught wrong so it's hard for them to even understand. Explain God and they say "how convenient." In other words your statement contained no fallacy and they have no rebuttal so they conclude you're making it up as you go along. But remember their entire concept of God has been warped by false worship.

They've taken steps but they're only halfway to the truth. The atheist says "there is no god." Isn't that half of the declaration?
they always refer back to the bible which they misinterpret... they resent their lives as former Christians or etc bc it was "forced" on them.
 

Jesus Shuttlesworth

I Got Game
Joined
May 2, 2012
Messages
11,989
Reputation
1,825
Daps
20,223
Reppin
Sovereignty
they always refer back to the bible which they misinterpret... they resent their lives as former Christians or etc bc it was "forced" on them.

It's the reason all their arguments fail. What limited knowledge they have on the subject is tainted. The funny thing is I agree with most of their points, but their arguments only apply to a corrupted system. And I agree that system has been altered. Unfortunately that's all they know. So where does that leave them? A wise man would seek knowledge but it takes a fool to reject something he knows nothing about.
 

Detroit B

Rookie
Joined
Jun 1, 2012
Messages
125
Reputation
0
Daps
108
Reppin
NULL
'Spiritual eyes'? Did you type that with a straight face? :pachaha:
Exactly....The blind will never know the difference between the physical and the spiritual....continue defending the darkness that rules this temporary place we call earth.
 

semtex

:)
Joined
May 1, 2012
Messages
20,310
Reputation
3,396
Daps
46,187
Exactly....The blind will never know the difference between the physical and the spiritual....continue defending the darkness that rules this temporary place we call earth.
call those who don't share your delusion "blind" brehs :yawn:
 

Chesirecatdaddy

All Star
Joined
Oct 24, 2013
Messages
6,178
Reputation
1,073
Daps
9,014
It's the reason all their arguments fail. What limited knowledge they have on the subject is tainted. The funny thing is I agree with most of their points, but their arguments only apply to a corrupted system. And I agree that system has been altered. Unfortunately that's all they know. So where does that leave them? A wise man would seek knowledge but it takes a fool to reject something he knows nothing about.
what's also funny is that the man they call Jesus pbuh came to right the wrongs of the system created around the laws of God. All he did was repeat knowledge that he was divinely inspired with and/or learned. He didn't set out to create a system around it, yet he knew it would be hijacked..He alluded to the fact that people would not understand the meanings of the bible and that the truth would be hidden in allegory. He reiterated what was said by the Oracle of delphi, to be still and that the truth was within (meditation). He prayed to God in fear for his life bc he himself was not saying he was God... but a part of something greater.... he even others that they are Gods sons of the most high.

The texts in the bible are heavily misinterpreted.. which is something the Quran alludes to calling Christians the people of the book and Jews those that were led astray. Even the Quran now is being misinterpreted by most muslims, which is why there are so many issues right now with a lot of muslims. The Quran is straight forward and not corruptible using the same means as the bible and torah since it is memorized word for word and passed down... it is corrupted by Hadith...it's a hard pill to swallow.. and I know we might not agree on that... bt we agree on the fundamentals.
 
Joined
Dec 29, 2012
Messages
395
Reputation
120
Daps
391
Reppin
London
That's not at dispute. What I stated was that if the author had intended to mean the 'whole world', he had the vocabulary to make that ABSOLUTELY clear with no ambiguity.​

Which the author did. Any question of ambiguity would have been resolved in the reader's eye by the continual contextual references I posted previously. No discerning reader would have mistaken the erets of Genesis 1 as an ambiguous use of the word. More so the use of erets in the Noah narrative.


Also, Gen 1:1 can (and should) be translated as 'When God began to make the heavens and the earth', since the original Hebrew text contained no vowels.

Irrelevant.

It wasn't the impossibility of a worldwide flood, but discoveries of dictionaries in Ugarit made the language easier to interpret and translate.

I disagree. New discoveries in translation did little to change minds on The Flood. Scientific discoveries did.


There's also an understanding that their cosmological view was a tad bit different then than now. There was no 'next land'.

Of course there was. The next land was just part of the world: the earth in its entirety.


There's nothing that departs from the narrative if you understand how the Ancient Hebrews viewed the 'world'......

tumblr_kyy2te3o4H1qza6o4
I knew that already. It's only adding fodder to my argument: even a slight literal reading of The Flood narrative leads the reader to a global occurrence. That their cosmology was wrong remains irrelevant to the underlying intent of the author's.


One person said it HAD to be understood as the 'whole world' (as we know it) and I disagreed and showed the text supports a localized event.​

Nah, MAKAVELI25 wrote: "Supposedly your God flooded the world and killed everyone in it". Your eventual response was that "the text doesn't state the whole world was flooded". Your response indicates a some what literal reading of the text. I've therefore gone to some lengths to show that the narrator of the Noah tale was talking about a flood that killed every living thing on Earth. No distinction need be made, as it's clear from the text that a flood that covers all the mountains under the heavens is a global flood.


Note the cosmological map I posted above to show what the Ancient Hebrews meant if the verses are taken literally. Their concept of the 'whole world' was pretty much confined to what they could see and travel by walking, which wasn't much compared to now.

Irrelevant. Again, that their cosmology was wrong doesn't debase the intent of the text. The author - BibleGod inspired as he/she was - still wanted any potential readers/listeners to know that his/her God destroyed every living thing (land-dwelling creatures and those in the seas), submerged all structures under water, and then the guy in the magic boat landed on a mountain as the flood waters receded. Nothing in the world - not just the author's - escaped that reality. If the author wanted it understood that he/she meant only the creatures in my backyard got harmed, that would have been in the text.

'All life under the heavens' wouldn't mean the entire globe since, to them, the world wasn't a globe. The life extinguished would be confined to their observable land directly under 'the heavens'.

global:

1 relating to the whole world; worldwide:
http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/global

"All life under the heavens" would have meant every living creature that existed in the world. You either read the text as an allegory or take what it says for what it says.


No, the 'entity' misses events because the text says that it isn't watching everything all the time: It had to ask Cain what happened to Abel. It had to look for Adam in the Garden. It had to ask Eve who gave her the fruit. It had to ask A & E who told them they were naked. If you read the text literally rather than figuratively, the 'entity' misses events.

Then the Bible believer has a bigger problem, because the Bible is clear: "The eyes of the LORD are in every place, Watching the evil and the good" (Proverbs 15:3)
 

Dafunkdoc_Unlimited

Theological Noncognitivist Since Birth
Joined
Jul 25, 2012
Messages
44,586
Reputation
8,089
Daps
121,409
Reppin
The Wrong Side of the Tracks
YoungMasterGold said:
Which the author did. Any question of ambiguity would have been resolved in the reader's eye by the continual contextual references I posted previously. No discerning reader would have mistaken the erets of Genesis 1 as an ambiguous use of the word. More so the use of erets in the Noah narrative.​

You're attempting to state something as a fact citing contextual clues picked-up while reading, when the author had full use available of vocabulary that would be more easily discerned by listening audiences so there would be no possibility of ambiguity, thus, making the story easier to remember and pass down.

This was necessary since fully 95+% of the Biblical population was illiterate and this story comes from 'oral tradition'.

The story/text was to be proclaimed aloud to a group/crowd, not read in the privacy of your room to yourself.
YoungMasterGold said:
Your response indicates a some what literal reading of the text. I've therefore gone to some lengths to show that the narrator of the Noah tale was talking about a flood that killed every living thing on Earth. No distinction need be made, as it's clear from the text that a flood that covers all the mountains under the heavens is a global flood.

You're still misunderstanding. Their cosmology is why it cannot be a 'worldwide/global' flood. By using their worldview and historical/grammatical criticism, you find that: they knew of NO land further than the furthest camp/well/oasis/city/town, all on one disc-shaped continent, surrounded by a circular sea, under a dome with windows and gates, supported by pillars and mountains. The 'world' to them consisted of nothing further than their inhabited/observable area. Places such as Australia, Antarctica, the Americas, most of Africa, and most of Asia did not exist. Killing 'every living thing on Earth' and 'under Heaven' meant everything they knew to exist which was not much further than they could travel by walking along the bottom of their fishbowl. The author's 'world' =/= OUR 'world'. You've spent an inordinate amount of time criticizing a non-geographical, non-historical, non-scientific narrative for not being geographically, historically and scientifically accurate which is retarded. Like criticizing a Nike store for not selling Big Macs. The text being somehow 'inspired' by some 'entity' is irrelevant.
YoungMasterGold said:
Then the Bible believer has a bigger problem, because the Bible is clear: "The eyes of the LORD are in every place, Watching the evil and the good" (Proverbs 15:3)
If the believer (or non) just reads the text, the 'LORD' isn't making that statement.​
 
Last edited:

Greenstrings

All Star
Joined
May 6, 2012
Messages
1,829
Reputation
470
Daps
3,660
I usually hold that @Napoleon is the biggest enemy to his cause when it comes to these topics

But some of the arguments I see being put forward here have me thinking he may be a necessary evil :snoop:
 

Jesus Shuttlesworth

I Got Game
Joined
May 2, 2012
Messages
11,989
Reputation
1,825
Daps
20,223
Reppin
Sovereignty
what's also funny is that the man they call Jesus pbuh came to right the wrongs of the system created around the laws of God. All he did was repeat knowledge that he was divinely inspired with and/or learned. He didn't set out to create a system around it, yet he knew it would be hijacked..He alluded to the fact that people would not understand the meanings of the bible and that the truth would be hidden in allegory. He reiterated what was said by the Oracle of delphi, to be still and that the truth was within (meditation). He prayed to God in fear for his life bc he himself was not saying he was God... but a part of something greater.... he even others that they are Gods sons of the most high.

The texts in the bible are heavily misinterpreted.. which is something the Quran alludes to calling Christians the people of the book and Jews those that were led astray. Even the Quran now is being misinterpreted by most muslims, which is why there are so many issues right now with a lot of muslims. The Quran is straight forward and not corruptible using the same means as the bible and torah since it is memorized word for word and passed down... it is corrupted by Hadith...it's a hard pill to swallow.. and I know we might not agree on that... bt we agree on the fundamentals.

Nah I understand where you're coming from. The Muslim world is an embarrassment at times because too many people take it for granted. It's starting to happen in the US even. Too much culture mixed in and passed off. Too many senseless acts from lack of understanding. Even though that is the minority magnified by Western propaganda, it's still going on.

As far as the hadith, I view it for practical reasons, to clarify things. For example the Qur'an says to pray but gives no instruction how. I looked to hadith for that instruction and thus pray like a Sunni but if a person prayed another way, God knows best.

I'm not big on hadith because it's not the word of God. It's a collection of observations of men, much like the injeel and has no protection over its content. I once read a hadith that said stoning was decreed in the Qur'an but a goat ate that page. Seriously. So the book that has been protected for centuries, word for word, letter for letter, survived everything on Earth except... a goat?

Yeah I take a much simpler route. Those who believe in their Lord and work deeds of righteousness shall have their reward. That is the promise.
 

Chesirecatdaddy

All Star
Joined
Oct 24, 2013
Messages
6,178
Reputation
1,073
Daps
9,014
Nah I understand where you're coming from. The Muslim world is an embarrassment at times because too many people take it for granted. It's starting to happen in the US even. Too much culture mixed in and passed off. Too many senseless acts from lack of understanding. Even though that is the minority magnified by Western propaganda, it's still going on.

As far as the hadith, I view it for practical reasons, to clarify things. For example the Qur'an says to pray but gives no instruction how. I looked to hadith for that instruction and thus pray like a Sunni but if a person prayed another way, God knows best.

I'm not big on hadith because it's not the word of God. It's a collection of observations of men, much like the injeel and has no protection over its content. I once read a hadith that said stoning was decreed in the Qur'an but a goat ate that page. Seriously. So the book that has been protected for centuries, word for word, letter for letter, survived everything on Earth except... a goat?

Yeah I take a much simpler route. Those who believe in their Lord and work deeds of righteousness shall have their reward. That is the promise.
I totally agree that culture has been injected into Islam, specifically south asian culture and Pre-Islamic middle eastern culture, something that the Quran itself forbids because it tells you not to follow the shyt your father's father did. A lot of people are straight up ignoring things that are very clearly stated in the Qur'an.... a lot of these same people are illiterate as well and let people interpret Islam for them... another thing that the Qur'an is against.. Islam promotes learning the Qur'an and challenging it... something these zealots do not do.... but yes I agree they are the minority.

Also for some people Islam is the worship of Mohammed pbuh, Mohammed pbuh is the messenger and came simply to deliver and follow the message... yet people have elevated him to some Jesus like figure. You can talk shyt about Allah but if you talk shyt about Mohammed pbuh they'll wyle the fukk out. Mohammed was a man, he didn't even perform miracles like other profits.. that's not what made him special... What made him special was delivering the message against all odds and uniting a region engulfed in conflict and that took part in the most atrocious types of things before Islam.

Quran does give instructions on how to pray, you bow down and prostrate... the same way Christians pray in Ethiopia. I think a lot of people are looking for some complex method of prayer and that's why they miss it. There is no wrong way really as long as you prostrate. Hadith can be good and has a lot of practical advice.. but there's also a lot of ridiculous shyt, like not wearing silk or gold... or not owning dogs as pets... or Saying that mohammed pbuh met up with moses pbuh and moses told him to pray 50 times a day... but they deliberated and came up with 5 prayers lol.
 
Top