Glaring black female hypocrisy on IR/LGBT representation.

[Concerning VLoLence]

all that may be true, but what does it have to do with black women's support of these movies that aren't being made??? as it's been said, your proof is about the media, which if you made a thread solely about that, would be accurate...but you're trying to throw black women under the bus for something that they have no control over...

if you can show a movie with a black female lgbt protag or IRBM hetero film that black women didn't support or boycotted, you'd have a case, but you can't...

And if we do push for more black male heterosexual IRRs you wont boycott it like ya'll did with the Red Tails movie, correct?

At least read the thread before jumping in at the end.

Trying to have the last word is not a substantive debate tactic.

 

[Supper]

if you take the measurements of rainwater during a drought, that doesn't mean that it never rains, breh...like i said, you're harping on about TWO movies...black women support all types of black movies...y'all harp on Tyler Perry but his movies are loved amongst BW and the casts tend to be all black, including the love interests...you trying to make declarative statements out of something small...



black women aren't specifically calling for movies with lead male gay roles to be made, but they celebrate it when they come out...if a movie with a female lgbt came out, i'm sure they'd celebrate it too...you say they're neglecting the underrepresented black female lgbt and hetero IRBM movies, but you can't cite any examples because as you've already admitted, they aren't being made...can you make a list of these boycotted movies???

In my criticism of black women, I made sure to call them out on their selective action & INACTION towards certain types of lgbt & hetero IR representations in film

Black actress, Amanda Seales went on a giant strawmanned rant(to which a huge thread was made on this forum about) about how people are discrediting the experiences of lgbt black men in film as invalid and how their experience deserve to be shown, just because some black men are critiquing and questioning the way & frequency in which it is presented, when in actuality lgbt black men are over represented in comparison to their population size. But, they're no where to be found, as far as I can tell, to lend their open support and call for MORE black female lgbt leading protagonist, projects, NOT just active ones(because there are virtually none). Nor are black female writers, directors, and producers like Issa Rae taking the stop to create more leading protagonist roles for black lgbt women, but will snap at people, particularly black men for supposedly not accepting black male lgbt roles. The hypocrisy in this case lies in the inaction. So, don't tell me what you think they WOULD do if those types of movies existed, show me what they're doing to get those types of roles made.

And there are multiple blogs, websites, and youtube channels of black women, especially those from the swirler movement, who keep tabs on new movies, TV shows, and commercials that feature the over represented IRBW coupling. Why are there none of them to lend their support to IRBM roles which are actually under & misrepresented? The answer seems to be because they are self-interested & SELECTIVE about what type of IR coupling they want to promote based primarily on black female interest, not something noble like 'intersectionality', oppression, or under representation unbias of that which would benefit them directly as black women, just like they are with the type of lgbt roles they push for. Thus, have no moral leg to stand on in lecturing us about our supposed non-acceptance or lack of support for certain types of black representation, when they're just as, if not more, biased than us.

And yes, there were black women calling for the boycott of red tails, and it garnered the attention of multiple blogs and online magazines, like Cluth, for instance.

Frank Ocean wasn't out during Novacane and Tyler only recently came out...distribution works in the artists favor if they're willing to do the promotion themselves...there's a reason Tyler ain't on the radio, cause they label ain't pushing him like they would other artists cause there's no incentive...Young Thug and Lil B aren't gay and if you want to take it there, there's examples of Jordan Dunn licking on Beyonce in the YONCE video and Rihanna dancing with strippers in Pour It Up or hugging up on Shakira...do they count as LGBT artists??? no??? neither do Young Thug and Lil B...

one hit or not, that Young MA song was bigger than ANY Frank or Tyler track...yes, that can be verified...

Listen, I hate having 'debates' that devolve into a wars of random cherry picked anecdotes, which have no clear point of contention or a consistent, practical, method of producing verifiable evidence. Plus, the music industry wasn't even the original topic of discussion. So, I'll just leave this with these two articles list lgbt black rappers and general music artist. The males outnumber the females on both.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entr...iving-their-truth_us_59396cd1e4b0c5a35c9d01eb
9 Hip-Hop Artists Who Embrace Being Gay, Lesbian or Bisexual - XXL

Take from it what you will.

 

[The M.I.C.]

Let me bring myself in here, I was in the Issa Rae thread about the show she’s producing about black bi-sexual men. I had a back & fourth there because I supported it based off of seeing black people produce, write, direct, & star on the new project. I didn’t care that it was about bi-sexual black men. If it were about black bi-women, I’d still watch. My thing is simply supporting black projects.

This line of thought is troublesome.

 

[Supper]

all that may be true, but what does it have to do with black women's support of these movies that aren't being made??? as it's been said, your proof is about the media, which if you made a thread solely about that, would be accurate...but you're trying to throw black women under the bus for something that they have no control over...

if you can show a movie with a black female lgbt protag or IRBM hetero film that black women didn't support or boycotted, you'd have a case, but you can't...

Again............

Black actress, Amanda Seales went on a giant strawmanned rant(to which a huge thread was made on this forum about) about how people are discrediting the experiences of lgbt black men in film as invalid and how their experience deserve to be shown, just because some black men are critiquing and questioning the way & frequency in which it is presented, when in actuality lgbt black men are over represented in comparison to their population size. But, they're no where to be found, as far as I can tell, to lend their open support and call for MORE black female lgbt leading protagonist, projects, NOT just active ones(because there are virtually none). Nor are black female writers, directors, and producers like Issa Rae taking the stop to create more leading protagonist roles for black lgbt women, but will snap at people, particularly black men for supposedly not accepting black male lgbt roles. The hypocrisy in this case lies in the inaction. So, don't tell me what you think they WOULD do if those types of movies existed, show me what they're doing to get those types of roles made.

And there are multiple blogs, websites, and youtube channels of black women, especially those from the swirler movement, who keep tabs on new movies, TV shows, and commercials that feature the over represented IRBW coupling. Why are there none of them to lend their support to IRBM roles which are actually under & misrepresented? The answer seems to be because they are self-interested & SELECTIVE about what type of IR coupling they want to promote based primarily on black female interest, not something noble like 'intersectionality', oppression, or under representation unbias of that which would benefit them directly as black women, just like they are with the type of lgbt roles they push for. Thus, have no moral leg to stand on in lecturing us about our supposed non-acceptance or lack of support for certain types of black representation, when they're just as, if not more biased than us.

And yes, there were black women calling for the boycott of red tails, and it garnered the attention of multiple blogs and online magazines, like Cluth, for instance.

 

[Nature's Fury]

In my criticism of black women, I made sure to call them out on their selective action & INACTION towards certain types of lgbt & hetero IR representations in film

Black actress, Amanda Seales went on a giant strawmanned rant(to which a huge thread was made on this forum about) about how people are discrediting the experiences of lgbt black men in film as invalid, just because some black men are critiquing and question the way & frequency in which it is presented, when in actuality lgbt black men are over represented in comparison to their population size. But, they're no where to be found, as far as I can tell, to lend their open support and call for MORE black female lgbt leading protagonist, projects, NOT just active ones.

And there are multiple blogs, websites, and youtube channels of black women, especially those from the swirler movement who keep tabs on new movies, TV shows, and commercials that feature the over represented IRBW coupling. Why are their none of them to lend their support to IRBM roles which are actually under & misrepresented? The answer is because they are self-interested & SELECTIVE about what type of IR coupling they want to promote based primarily on black female interest, not something noble like 'intersectionality', oppression, or under representation.

And yes, there were black women calling for the boycott of red tails, and it garnered the attention of multiple blogs and online magazines, like Cluth, for instance.



Listen, I hate having 'debates' that devolve into a war of random cherry picked anecotoes, which have no real point of contention or a consistent, practical, method of producing verifiable evidence. Plus, the music industry wasn't even the original topic of discussion. So, I'll just leave this with these two articles list lgbt black rappers and general music artist. The males outnumber the females on both.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entr...iving-their-truth_us_59396cd1e4b0c5a35c9d01eb
9 Hip-Hop Artists Who Embrace Being Gay, Lesbian or Bisexual - XXL

Take from it what you will.

There's numerous movies and tv shows with hetero black male protagonist out right now...Will, Denzel, Kevin Hart and The Rock just dropped flicks this month...Idris Elba, Morgan Freeman (not to mention the numerous non-protag roles like breh in Star Wars, breh in Justice League) also got movies in theater...when you're talking about TWO projects in a two year basis (one actually, as the Issa Rae show doesn't have an air date and will certainly drop outside of your random time frame) while referring to how LGBT men are over-represented in the media is inaccurate and fake outrage on the part of hetero men...

women never CALLED for projects with gay black men as far as i'm concerned, they just supported when they dropped...as far as I know, they always support black shows while they're out...i haven't seen it yet, but this new Idris Elba/Kate Winslett movie is a IRBM movie and i don't remember hearing about black women trying to bring it down...The Rock stays with a white bytch in his movies and there ain't hoopla about that...i'm sure there's more examples...


(i read the summary on wiki...they fukked)

didn't know about that Red Tails thing, but it seemed to be more about the movie being represented as a black movie while having no black women in it...plus it dropped in the same time frame as Pariah and got a bigger theater showing...can't dismiss one in your argument due to when it dropped and prop up the other...

i just looked at that list and while the males outnumber the females, the female artist on those list are wayyyy bigger...Meshell Ndegeocello's accomplishments alone shyt on everybody on that list...you're right, no need to cherry pick...lgbt women are represented properly in terms of black music...

 

[Supper]

There's numerous movies and tv shows with hetero black male protagonist out right now...Will, Denzel, Kevin Hart and The Rock just dropped flicks this month...Idris Elba, Morgan Freeman (not to mention the numerous non-protag roles like breh in Star Wars, breh in Justice League) also got movies in theater...when you're talking about TWO projects in a two year basis (one actually, as the Issa Rae show doesn't have an air date and will certainly drop outside of your random time frame) while referring to how LGBT men are over-represented in the media is inaccurate and fake outrage on the part of hetero men....

Yep, I counted six hetero black male protagonist roles in your list(which I didn't even check to verify yet). Congrats.

That's still a lot less than the over 97 within the past two years you would need for the number of hetero black male leading protagonist roles to be proportional to the number of black male lgbt roles in terms of their share of the population. I actually choose the two year time frame to account for the future release date of the Him or Her show on HBO, which would only not be adequate if it premiered on HBO after Oct. 21 2018(two years since Moonlight premiered in theaters). But, fine we can only use Moonlight as a point of reference if you wish. Then you'd have come with at least 49 major leading black male protagonist roles in movies only(not TV since we're excluding HBO's HIM or HER) since it's release date on Oct. 21 2016 for black male lgbt leading protagonist roles to be proportional to their share of amount of the total black male population. But, we both know there aren't anywhere near that many. We can come back and tally in the him or her show, and account for TV shows when we have a release date if you wish, so long as we both agree to SOME consistent, practical, criteria to measure the proportionality.

And no outrage, just sound logic and facts, which you seem to be unable to dispute.

women never CALLED for projects with gay black men as far as i'm concerned, they just supported when they dropped...as far as I know, they always support black shows while they're out...i haven't seen it yet,

Amanda Seales went on an entire strawmanned in support of black male lgbt representation, not any one show in particular. Where is her or any other black women in hollywood's support for and CALL for the of creation of lgbt black female leading protagonist? Where's their support and call for the creation of more hetero IRBM films which is also under represented as well as misrepresented, unlike lgbt black male leading protagonist roles.

but this new Idris Elba/Kate Winslett movie is a IRBM movie and i don't remember hearing about black women trying to bring it down...The Rock stays with a white bytch in his movies and there ain't hoopla about that...i'm sure there's more examples...

Like I said I'm calling black women out on their selective action AND inaction on the types of films they choose to support. I never said they boycotted EVERY IRBM role, but simply that they're on record for doing so. Where's their support against the discrimination of hetero IRBM roles as degenerate the few times they're actually shown in hollywood and call to end the marginalization and maligning of them which leads to their under representation, like how many of them keep tabs on and support the already over represented hetero IRBW roles that they like.

Because that what black women would do if they were truly as altruistic & virtuous in their support for all black roles no matter the gender as you claim they are. Unless of course you're telling me that black women ARE indeed self-interested, biased, and selective in the types of black roles they support- In which case they have no moral leg to stand on in lecturing us about our supposed non-acceptance or lack of support for certain types of black representation, when they're just as, if not more, biased than us

didn't know about that Red Tails thing, but it seemed to be more about the movie being represented as a black movie while having no black women in it...plus it dropped in the same time frame as Pariah and got a bigger theater showing...can't dismiss one in your argument due to when it dropped and prop up the other...

I presented that criteria to be used only for black lgbt roles, because of the lack of comprehensive statistics on them. Whereas for hetero IR movies, like Red Tails, there are multiple stats on IRBM vs IRBW representation and they all consistently show IRBW to have more in quantity and quality than IRBM roles. So, like I said, the case for the hetero IR gender disparity is stronger, than the case for the lgbt gender disparity in hollywood. Though it's still not impossible to approximate the lgbt gender disparity using a sample size- We just have to agree on a consistent, practical, criteria to use.

And the fact that Pariah had a limited showing lends to my point about the lack of black female lgbt representation in hollywood.

 

[Supper]

@Nature's Fury And for all of our supposed "fake outrage" over lgbt black male roles, at least we never went so far as to boycott any black lgbt or IRBW film, like you all did with Red Tails.

So, again, ya'll have absolutely no moral leg to stand on to be chastising & lecturing us about bigotry or intolerance.

 

[Nature's Fury]

Yep, I counted six hetero black male protagonist roles in your list(which I didn't even check to verify yet). Congrats.

That's still a lot less than the over 97 within the past two years you would need for the number of hetero black male leading protagonist roles to be proportional to the number of black male lgbt roles. I actually choose the two year time frame to account for the future release date of the Him or Her show on HBO, which would only not be adequate if it premiered on HBO after Oct. 21 2018(two years since Moonlight premiered in theaters). But, fine we can only use Moonlight as a point of reference if you wish. Then you'd have come with at least 49 major leading black male protagonist roles in movies only(not TV since we're excluding HBO's HIM or HER) since it's release date on Oct. 21 2016 for black male lgbt leading protagonist roles to be proportional to their share of amount of the total black male population. But, we both know there aren't anywhere near that many. We can come back and tally in the him or her show, and account for TV shows when we have a release date if you wish, so long as we both agree to SOME consistent, practical, criteria to measure the proportionality.

And no outrage, just sound logic and facts, which you seem to be unable to dispute.




Amanda Seales went on an entire strawmanned in support of black male lgbt representation, not any one show in particular. Where is her or any other black women in hollywood's and support for and CALL for the of creation of lgbt black female leading protagonist? Where's their support and call for the creation of more hetero IRBM films which is also under represented as well as misrepresented, unlike lgbt black male leading protagonist roles.



Like I said I'm calling black women out on their selective action AND inaction on the types of films they choose to support. I never said they boycotted EVERY IRBM role, but that they're simply on record for doing so. Where's their support against the discrimination of hetero IRBM roles as degenerate the few times they're actually shown in hollywood and call to end the marginalization and maligning of them which leads to their under representation, like how many of them keep tabs on and support the already over represented IRBW roles that they like.

Because that what black women would do if they were truly as altruistic & virtuous in their support for all black roles no matter the gender as you claim they are. Unless of course you're telling me that black women ARE indeed self-interested, biased, and selective in the types of black roles they support- In which case they have no moral leg to stand on in lecturing us about our supposed non-acceptance or lack of support for certain types of black representation, when they're just as, if not more, biased than us




I presented that criteria to be used only for black lgbt roles, because of the lack of comprehensive statistics on them. Whereas for hetero IR movies, like Red Tails, there are multiple stats on IRBM vs IRBW representation and they all consistently show IRBW to have more in quantity and quality than IRBM roles. So, like I said, the case for the hetero IR gender disparity is more solid, than the lgbt gender disparity in hollywood. Though it's still not impossible to approximate the lgbt gender disparity using a sample size- We just have to agree on a consistent, practical criteria to use.

And the fact that Pariah had a limited showing lends to my point about the lack of black female lgbt representation in hollywood.

1. your entire 49 leading black hetero male argument is stupid and is geared towards Hollywood, not black women...that fact that it's "unproportional" is of the studios doing and is a strawman at this point...still, the amount of black leading hetero men TRUMPS the one gay black movie by far...like i said, those six roles are from movies that dropped this month alone...you gotta go all the way the fukk back a full year to get one gay movie...and that's not even counting the supporting hetero black male roles...they are by in large represented better in Hollywood than any other black group so the fact that they feel so insecure about the ONE gay movie and ONE gay show is ridiculous...

2.Amanda Seals isn't all black women...she supported the black lgbt male representation because that was the topic at hand...i'm sure if a lgbt black female show was announced and cause the controversy this one did, she would've been defending it to...but her supporting one and her calling for the other to be made are two completely different things...

3. Issa Rae went to the Golden Globes and said she was rooting for everybody that's black...black women largely started the #OscarSoWhite narrative a few years back...they don't complain about the Tyler Perry movies like black men and are happy to have a black creator gettin it...your qualm that they don't specifically go out of their way to try to lift up every single IRBM movie, when they don't go out of their way to shyt on them either...again, if you're mad these movies aren't being made, take it up with the studios, not random black women on the internet...

i don't think i'm gonna reply anymore because i'm saying the same thing over and over again in different ways and you're purposely trying to dodge the point...i guess we can agree to disagree...but you're wrong...

 

[Nature's Fury]

@Nature's Fury And for all of our supposed "fake outrage" over lgbt black male roles, at least we never went so far as to boycott any black lgbt or IRBW film, like you all did with Red Tails.

So, again, ya'll have absolutely no moral leg to stand on to be chastising & lecturing us about bigotry or intolerance.

i'm not sure about this whole boycott thing, but i definitely remember hearing hetero black men saying there was no way they were seeing Moonlight or watch Empire, ect...

i just googled "red tails boycott" and the reach of that so called "boycott" was an article on clutchmagazineonline(?) and a 8 page thread on LSA where most of them were like "who cares"...the world is bigger than this little internet circle you run in...

 

[Milk N Cookies]

This line of thought is troublesome.

 

[Supper]

1. your entire 49 leading black hetero male argument is stupid and is geared towards Hollywood, not black women...that fact that it's "unproportional" is of the studios doing and is a strawman at this point.

As stated before I'm calling black women out on their selective endorcement of certain black lgbt & IR films while neglecting others. Not that they own the studios where they were made. THAT ma'am is a strawman argument. Perhaps you should look up the definition of a what a strawman fallacy is, because you're doing it right now. And the black male lgbt over representation is NOT a strawman argument, because YOU keep making the counter claim to dispute the evidence I provided for it, and then turning around and claiming that it's actually hetero black men who are over represented, while providing NO evidence what so ever for this claim, so it IS a point of contention in this discussion, not a strawman.

..still, the amount of black leading hetero men TRUMPS the one gay black movie by far...like i said, those six roles are from movies that dropped this month alone

And yeah I checked too see for myself, and morgan freeman has not starred an any movie released this month let alone in a leading protagonist role and kevin heart has not played in any leading protagonist role anytime this entire year, let alone this month. He stars along side The Rock, who is the leading protagonist, as a supporting character in the same Jumanji movie, yet you presented it as if it was two different movies. So, you get an A+ for being deceptive. So, in actuality that leaves you with 4 straight black male protagonist roles roughly within a months time span, and just by dumb luck you happened to pick this time of the year when major distributors are targeting November and December releases to market their films for the upcoming award season.

...you gotta go all the way the fukk back a full year to get one gay movie...and that's not even counting the supporting hetero black male roles...they are by in large represented better in Hollywood than any other black group

Well, hetero black men outnumber lgbt black men 50:1 so it's not exactly surprising that there are numerically more hetero black male roles than lgbt black male roles. But, are they proportionally more represented? I think not, and have provided evidence to back it up.

But, hey, if you want to build a criteria that includes supporting cast in tv and movies then feel free to set a time a time frame, and tally all of the supporting and leading lgbt black male roles, so we can determine the number of straight black man supporting and leading cast we would need for a proportional representation, and then you can certainly use it as evidence that contradicts the evidence I presented of the over representation of lgbt black males especially if you use a broader criteria with a larger sample size. I just know I'm not doing all that work.

they feel so insecure about the ONE gay movie and ONE gay show is ridiculous...

Yep, but not insecure enough to start a boycott of those films, though, unlike ya'll are known to do. So, why the self righteous ethical/virtue posturing from black women when they're in no position to talk?

2.Amanda Seals isn't all black women...she supported the black lgbt male representation because that was the topic at hand...i'm sure if a lgbt black female show was announced and cause the controversy this one did, she would've been defending it to...but her supporting one and her calling for the other to be made are two completely different things...

Again, please stop telling me about what you think WOULD happen if a leading black female lgbt protagonist roles where to be rolled out, and start telling me what black women are DOING to see these under represented films get light. I'm not interested in hypothetical situations.

Plus why was *A* black woman in hollywood motivated enough to publically respond to the criticism surrounding one film of about a lgbt black man, when that demographic not under represented in hollywood, yet NO black woman in hollywood stood up and spoke out against to the heaps of criticism of Red Tails, when hetero IRBM roles ARE actually under represented and misrepresented.

Why all of the support and defense for lgbt black men representation which is not lacking AT ALL, but not for hetero IRBM which IS actually under represented and misrepresented. Hetero IRBM & lgbt black men are both black men as well as black people, after all. And all of this wouldn't be a problem if ya'll just came out and admitted ya'll defend, support, and champion films on the basis of a black FEMALE agenda, instead of trying to claim to be altruistic and unbias in your support of black films, while trying to play divide and conquer between straight and lgbt black men by chastising black men for being 'homophobic' in our criticism surrounding certain films, when ya'll are known to get quite nasty & intolerant yourselves when it comes to hetero IRBM and light skin/mixed black women being represented in film ie you saying that Dwayne keeps a "white bytch". lol But, we're the intolerant insecure bigots, though, right?

i don't think i'm gonna reply anymore because i'm saying the same thing over and over again in different ways and you're purposely trying to dodge the point...i guess we can agree to disagree...but you're wrong...

lol I doubt it. And sure, but you've refuted nothing, ma'am.

 

[Supper]

i'm not sure about this whole boycott thing, but i definitely remember hearing hetero black men saying there was no way they were seeing Moonlight or watch Empire, ect...

Well, I guess I would be one of those black men because I haven't seen either of those films and don't intend to, because they don't interest me.

But, you wont catch me or any other group of black men calling for a boycott of them, because, unlike you, we don't want to get RID of those films, we just have a problem with the proportion and manner they, as well as asexual & toxic-sexual(rapist, harassers, abusers) are presented to represent us. Thus want MORE quaility hetero black male leading roles and and of other actors playing them aside from the typical old guard of famous black male actors. And especially to alleviate the marginalization and maligning of hetero IRBM roles by countering the under representation and misrepresentation of them with more QUALITY hetero IRBM films.

i just googled "red tails boycott" and the reach of that so called "boycott" was an article on clutchmagazineonline(?) and a 8 page thread on LSA where most of them were like "who cares"...the world is bigger than this little internet circle you run in...

Yeah, the reason why they and some other blogs were reporting on it was because there WERE black women calling for a COLLECTIVE boycott of it, otherwise they would've had nothing to report it. It doesn't matter that some black women disagreed with the boycott. The fact is that the boycott existed. And the fact that ya'll would boycott a film of an already marginalized & maligned group(hetero IRBM) in hollywood speaks VOLUMES about black women's character. Ya'll truly have no place to be speaking to us about intolerance, bigotry, and insecurity.

 

[The M.I.C.]

Foolish woman

 

[Milk N Cookies]

Foolish woman

 

[Supper]

Ground breaking black female director role in hollywood promotes the further over-representation of a black female protagonist with a white MALE love interest.

DuVernay's next film, A Wrinkle in Time, reportedly has a budget exceeding $100 million, making DuVernay the first black woman to direct a live-action film with a budget of that size.

Gee, I wonder why she isn't using this huge opportunity to push for more black female lgbt representation, as much as black women love to shame black men about that non-issue(lgbt rep). I bet if the main character were a black male she'd opt for the lgbt role, though. DEFINITELY not the hetero IRBM role for a kids movie like this. That would upset a lot of people from two certain highly sensitive and hypocritical groups{BW & WM}.