ADevilYouKhow
Rhyme Reason
My East African wifey is always telling me stories of corruption that leave me with the 
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Fueled by Bribes, Somalia’s Election Seen as Milestone of Corruption (Farmaajo is Somali President!)
- Thread starter FAH1223
- Start date
They're training doctors and sending Somalis to Turkey to study too
I mean it's atleast some sort of capacity building
The useless ass govt doesn't even spend it's money on the people
The Odum of Ala Igbo
Hail Biafra!
Isn't Somalia's budget less than 1 billion USD?
Trajan
Veteran
Trying to get clicks
Who you think is winning
Lol he went for the cliche pics of bombed out buildings and kid carrying fish
I think he's been using those pics for years. I keep seeing them lol.
As far as Somalia, the main problem with the politicians is that:
1- They're the old guard from Siad Barre era for the most part. They are either a relic of 70s, 80s politics or guys who came up during those times but never got to hold office due to the civil war. Either way these guys have no vision or ideas as to how run a 21st century state. They have recieved their training on administration from Soviets. For goodness sake these brehs still wear Mao suits!
They still welcome the president at the tarmac with flowers like those 70s socialist dictatorships used to do. They don't know any better. They associate statecraft with how China was run in the 70 when it was a backwater. And they don't even reach that standard. They're ideologically and morally bankrupt. 2- All those politicians are dual nationals. They have no real stake in the country and its progress. All their children and wife = abroad away from the mayhem. They can just loot the country and hit the road once they're time is done. Perhaps make Somali citizens ONLY eligible for high office. We'll see who's really about that action and willing to give up that European or American citizenship to give back to the country. Not a dikkhead on a sabbatical from work in the West going back to hit a lick smh.
thatrapsfan
Superstar
They really aren't in it for running schools or hospitals. They'd actually gladly give them up after their split with the Gulens who were the ones invested in philanthropy abroad. Turkey was actually even pressuring the Somali government to close existing Turkish schools and kick the Gulens out. Again all of this has more to do with how useless Somali politicians are. They have no interest in leveraging anything out of the deals or even maintaining autonomy if it means it lines politics.
On the earlier post yeah Im aware UAE and Qatar are khaleejis as well but the point was that there isn't a clear dichotomy between Turkey and Khaleejis on one side and the neighbouring countries on the other. Even the Khaleejis themselves are often not on the same page and compete.
thatrapsfan
Superstar
Good post but dual national thing isn't a pancea. Remember people were extremely excited about HSM because he isn't a dual national, never left the country during the civil war, and had no stake in the armed conflict and the man is corrupt as everLol he went for the cliche pics of bombed out buildings and kid carrying fish
I think he's been using those pics for years. I keep seeing them lol.
As far as Somalia, the main problem with the politicians is that:
1- They're the old guard from Siad Barre era for the most part. They are either a relic of 70s, 80s politics or guys who came up during those times but never got to hold office due to the civil war. Either way these guys have no vision or ideas as to how run a 21st century state. They have recieved their training on administration from Soviets. For goodness sake these brehs still wear Mao suits!
2- All those politicians are dual nationals. They have no real stake in the country and its progress. All their children and wife = abroad away from the mayhem. They can just loot the country and hit the road once they're time is done. Perhaps make Somali citizens ONLY eligible for high office. We'll see who's really about that action and willing to give up that European or American citizenship to give back to the country. Not a dikkhead on a sabbatical from work in the West going back to hit a lick smh.
Come to think of it I don't think any President even going back to TFG era were dual nationals. Back in the 90s to early 00s days it was local warlords who never left the country that controlled the game. The returned interest of the international community and relative peace after Mogadishu capture brought back diasporans politicans and you've noted the problems with them. But the whole structure and style is rotten diaspora or not.
The Odum of Ala Igbo
Hail Biafra!
Good post but dual national thing isn't a pancea. Remember people were extremely excited about HSM because he isn't a dual national, never left the country during the civil war, and had no stake in the armed conflict and the man is corrupt as ever
Come to think of it I don't think any President even going back to TFG era were dual nationals. Back in the 90s to early 00s days it was local warlords who never left the country that controlled the game. The returned interest of the international community and relative peace after Mogadishu capture brought back diasporans politicans and you've noted the problems with them. But the whole structure and style is rotten diaspora or not.
Predictions on Somalia's future over the next ten years?
thatrapsfan
Superstar
It's a mark of how potent Barre era propaganda was that Somalis still have delusions of grandeur about Somaliweyn. People act like it's some religious right to have territories where ethnic Somalis live under one country, on some Israeli biblical promise shyt
No one ever stops to ask why this must be the case. How many countries in Africa have ethnic groups living across multiple countries? Do each deserve independent country? Must the Fulanis(who have a similar nomadic lifestyle) spread over like 7 countries have to have a Fulania? The whole logic of Somaliweyne collapses when you recognize that Somalia is actually a multiethnic country. Some would even say multilingual.
The problem is Barre-era propaganda brainwashed people into believing Somali citizenship and Somali ethnicity is the same thing. It's not. A Somali in Ethiopia or Kenya or Djibouti is no different than a Fulani in Senegal or Nigeria or Mali. We can recognize the obvious cultural bonds and familial ties without agitating for a seperate country as if it's promised in the Quran.
No one ever stops to ask why this must be the case. How many countries in Africa have ethnic groups living across multiple countries? Do each deserve independent country? Must the Fulanis(who have a similar nomadic lifestyle) spread over like 7 countries have to have a Fulania? The whole logic of Somaliweyne collapses when you recognize that Somalia is actually a multiethnic country. Some would even say multilingual.
The problem is Barre-era propaganda brainwashed people into believing Somali citizenship and Somali ethnicity is the same thing. It's not. A Somali in Ethiopia or Kenya or Djibouti is no different than a Fulani in Senegal or Nigeria or Mali. We can recognize the obvious cultural bonds and familial ties without agitating for a seperate country as if it's promised in the Quran.
thatrapsfan
Superstar
Im not optimistic. The status quo will remain for as long as possible as no side of the conflict is powerful enough to defeat the other. AMISOMs presence will ensure AS doesn't overrun the country but outrageous corruption of Somali politicians and parochial style of politics makes it hard to envision a consolidation of power on their end. We literally need a miracle like a huge oil find that could reverse the political economy of the country and break the ties that ensure political instability.
Trajan
Veteran
Good post but dual national thing isn't a pancea. Remember people were extremely excited about HSM because he isn't a dual national, never left the country during the civil war, and had no stake in the armed conflict and the man is corrupt as ever
Come to think of it I don't think any President even going back to TFG era were dual nationals. Back in the 90s to early 00s days it was local warlords who never left the country that controlled the game. The returned interest of the international community and relative peace after Mogadishu capture brought back diasporans politicans and you've noted the problems with them. But the whole structure and style is rotten diaspora or not.
True. I had this thought when I saw this:
That's what, half the MPS who choose the bloody president
. If anything it's a future national security as the intelligence agencies of their host countries can lean on them.As far as the past, those warlords were pawns. Ethiopia was arming rival factions against each other and sometimes they would arm factions opposed to those backed by their enemies e.g Eritrea, Egypt. Somalia has always been a ground for proxy wars going back to US v Soviet and when they lost interest third rate powers like Ethiopia and Eritrea picked up the gauntlet.
The Odum of Ala Igbo
Hail Biafra!
- How is the building of the Somali Army going? I've seen how Al-Shabab fights on video. They do the typical swarming/overwhelm military bases thing. Probably use Maoist guerrilla tactics. They aren't 'good' fighters.
- Somalia having offshore oil would be interesting...it would be disastrous for your long-term stability though.
- Is Somalia's political system TOO clan based? Why not go for very loose federalism like Switzerland?
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Trajan
Veteran
Somalia awakens as East Africa's oil province
http://www.offshore-mag.com/article...ia-awakens-as-east-africa-s-oil-province.html
Be careful what you wish for. The resource curse is real.
thatrapsfan
Superstar
Many different countries training the army but no rhyme or reason towards building one cohesive force. The Americans have trained a few elite counter-terror units but they are very small groups. It's a measure of the amount of different interests involved that there will never be one strategy.
Idk it's hard to think our stability could be worse. The Khaleejis were once divided into endless clans and oil transformed the whole logic of their societies. Wishful thinking I know.
Somalia's current system is actually a federal one and it was supposed to address the very decentralized status quo with semiautonomous authorities everywhere. There's also the idea the heavily centralized form of government from the Barre era neglected everywhere but the capital and laid seeds for distrust. In practice though, federalism has just formalized clan politics.
The Odum of Ala Igbo
Hail Biafra!
re: Army - That's too bad. There probably won't be an effective Somali army for a generation or two.
re: Stability - Khaleejis aren't Somalis, as you know. Wishful thinking, indeed.
re: Federalism - I fear clan-based politics will at best formalize mediocrity in terms of governance. At worst, it will create mini dictators within semi-autonomous areas. There may be a few exceptions of smart clans working together to make things work.
Trajan
Veteran
I'm not too hopeful on that front. I don't see us being much different from other African countries with abundant resources.
All those Khaleejis had the same families ruling their domains since the 18th Century. They had the governance bit sorted. A well-established ruling house whose writ extended to neighbouring tribes. They were just poor and oil gave them a boost and they share the bounty with them for their continued support. Also apart from KSA they're tiny populations...everyone is pretty much connected to each other in places like Qatar, Dubai, Sharjah. KSA has more people but they had the good fortune of sitting on the largest reserves in the world. They're very much corrupt but they get so much money in that despite the corruption things can get still get done.
By contrast, Somalia wasn't a unified entity until colonialism so you have a fight for supremacy, much larger population, non-existent institutions and currently ranked the most corrupt nation on earth. And that's without any industries
We need a revolution. There are a few bright spots for the future I foresee but that's another topic.