Fast-food workers walkout to protest low wages

[newarkhiphop]

I think you guys are missing my point. I figured the numbers I showed would basically prove the point. Those numbers were based on the places college graduates are most likely to find a job + affordability. So basically your arguing that your advice, which will work for the minority of people because most will not find work where you did, should be the starting point. That is very flawed. The argument should start based on those places I listed because those are the places most probable to find work with some sort of balance of cost. You can't sell people a dream or make an example out of an exception. I have plenty of those, and I'm not using them for a reason.

First and foremost you guys keep harping on "move out and find a different job." Newark says "there are jobs all over this country." Yes, there are, but there are not jobs for every college student for every major. I was speaking mainly to people coming up and out of college. If you're considerably older than that and still making 15 dollars an hour, odds are you have a lot of other things keeping you where you're at from bad credit to a lack of prior work history, etc. But your advice would probably be more applicable there. But let's just start from college and education where you both started from in your examples and why they have little bearing on the societal problem overall.

Most college degrees are not portable without experience, more often than not, people are unemployed at graduation, and their university has little national reach. That doesn't mean that finding a job is impossible, it just means that people have to hustle. So, if you went to school in NY or NJ, and you're very likely to end up in that area (partly because of self-selection, but mostly because that is the reach of your school, then you don't have that type of leverage). You're going to have a hard time getting someone outside of your region to read your resume and to pick you over someone from a local school with established ties to that employer. My friend from Texas in undergrad isn't working in Minnesota because that's what he envisioned, but he went to Michigan and those employers showed up on campus.

Which is why I said, getting the first job is the biggest hassle. Only if that is done, can any of your argument apply. (I'm trying to avoid the big problem with education discussion) The problem is, most are not getting that first job, and those that do are working at Starbucks (literally) or as waitresses and that doesn't exactly make you look like the most attractive candidate. @Liquid is basically working for himself, and @midwesthiphop you had years of experience. Your advice is not applicable to people coming right out of college who are sitting on 25k to 30k's worth of debt.

You both keep missing the crucial point that "after X amount of years" you moved on. College graduates starting out cannot do that until at least 6 months on that first job, and most don't have one at graduation. Many don't have a job that even really required a college degree until like a year after or so. So your advice really doesn't work for most young professionals. This is why you see people going back to school. I hope I didn't ramble too much, I didn't go back and check the organization of this post.

I saw your list and didn't address it much because no offense didn't feel i need to , IMO it hurts your argument because if your a recent college graduate who doesn't have a job the LAST place you should be looking for one is somewhere where your rent is going to be $1500 /month (Boston) $1300/ month (Seattle) or $1600 ( DC ) that by logic makes no sense and to be honest i think major cities like those are the worst places to try and find jobs because the competition pool would be so huge , because every young professional is looking there to "make it" i would like to read the rest of the article post the link if you can, want to see what other things they factored in when they made this list.

Your second and third paragraph is what happens when people get into these college pick a degree and don't think about there future , i had to learn that the hard way the firs time, but honestly i don't understand what you mean by

"Most college degrees are not portable without experience, more often than not, people are unemployed at graduation, and their university has little national reach "

I disagree with your 4th paragraph but that also varies greatly by what career anyone is looking for, but we can use mine as a example i have a degree in social work which many times is ranked in the top 10 worst careers to find a job in. Back in jersey i found jobs all the time,as i mentioned before my problem was not so much finding was finding one that paid what i felt was enough $$, even when i started off in community college though from day 1 literally i was already thinking about where i could apply my degree by that i mean what types of job. Getting a first job is not hard, the problem arises that most people want there first job to be directly related to what there degree is in, my first two years of college i was still working my security guard job ( which was my first job and what makes up 6 years worth of expedience on my resume) , end of the 2nd year i got a internship position at a agency watching peoples kids while they signed welfare applications, far from what i had in mind BUT i knew it was a means to end my friend, eventually ended up supervising that same welfare unit at the end of the year. long story short though you said it before, you have to hustle COLLEGE DOESN'T AND SHOULDN'T GUARANTEE shyt.

Even now with this job i have now I have 0 prior experience in it, my 2 prior jobs before this have nothing to do with what i do now, expect for the fact that they all required a Social Work degree, but other than that they are opposite ends of the spectrum, but what got me this job? I moved to place that need people with my degree. FYI am not even adding the fact that i got TWO other job offers prior to the one i chose to accept, both of those again had NOTHING to do with my prior experience in the field. Its a supply and demand thing breh

and honestly I WISH someone had told me 8 years ago to do what i did now. I would probably been finished paying off a house by now but you live and you learn.

Whenever i meet younger people in college now first thing i tell is start looking for a job in your field RIGHT NOW not when you graduate

 

[Liquid]

I think you guys are missing my point. I figured the numbers I showed would basically prove the point. Those numbers were based on the places college graduates are most likely to find a job + affordability. So basically your arguing that your advice, which will work for the minority of people because most will not find work where you did, should be the starting point. That is very flawed. The argument should start based on those places I listed because those are the places most probable to find work with some sort of balance of cost. You can't sell people a dream or make an example out of an exception. I have plenty of those, and I'm not using them for a reason.

First and foremost you guys keep harping on "move out and find a different job." Newark says "there are jobs all over this country." Yes, there are, but there are not jobs for every college student for every major. I was speaking mainly to people coming up and out of college. If you're considerably older than that and still making 15 dollars an hour, odds are you have a lot of other things keeping you where you're at from bad credit to a lack of prior work history, etc. But your advice would probably be more applicable there. But let's just start from college and education where you both started from in your examples and why they have little bearing on the societal problem overall.

Most college degrees are not portable without experience, more often than not, people are unemployed at graduation, and their university has little national reach. That doesn't mean that finding a job is impossible, it just means that people have to hustle. So, if you went to school in NY or NJ, and you're very likely to end up in that area (partly because of self-selection, but mostly because that is the reach of your school, then you don't have that type of leverage). You're going to have a hard time getting someone outside of your region to read your resume and to pick you over someone from a local school with established ties to that employer. My friend from Texas in undergrad isn't working in Minnesota because that's what he envisioned, but he went to Michigan and those employers showed up on campus.

Which is why I said, getting the first job is the biggest hassle. Only if that is done, can any of your argument apply. (I'm trying to avoid the big problem with education discussion) The problem is, most are not getting that first job, and those that do are working at Starbucks (literally) or as waitresses and that doesn't exactly make you look like the most attractive candidate. @Liquid is basically working for himself, and @midwesthiphop you had years of experience. Your advice is not applicable to people coming right out of college who are sitting on 25k to 30k's worth of debt.

You both keep missing the crucial point that "after X amount of years" you moved on. College graduates starting out cannot do that until at least 6 months on that first job, and most don't have one at graduation. Many don't have a job that even really required a college degree until like a year after or so. So your advice really doesn't work for most young professionals. This is why you see people going back to school. I hope I didn't ramble too much, I didn't go back and check the organization of this post.

See I view things a little differently because I hate to leave the possibility to failure open. So for example I am in Lexington, KY where my itemized list of bills is common for the recent college grad who wants to live on their own can find. So you are out of college and need a place to work, chances are you don't have much savings and are in debt, what are you going to do if you can't land that dream job of your dreams in 6-9 months? That's right, you are taking a job that is supposedly "below" your worth. That leaves open the greater possibility for failure for more than half of the population in a very expensive city WITHOUT college degrees as well in addition to the ones who finished their bachelors.

I don't view it on a scale of "jobs for college students" except for a very select fields such as medical, computer science, chemistry, and other select few science fields. Everything else? There is this stretched term that I am sure you are aware of and that's the "related field" in where any degree that your employer finds as even remotely relevant. I mentioned it in other posts here, you are not above ANY JOB especially when you are starting out. Many dig themselves in an even deeper hole because they are "too good" for a place like Walmart or Target.

I also don't agree with the idea that degrees are not portable. This is not the 90's or even the early 00's, the world is changing drastically and was evident to me the minute I stepped into Amazon out here. Almost all the entry level manager jobs where occupied from people all over the country and NOT Kentucky residents. Furthermore, many had transferred to other facilities/companies outside of the state before I quit at the end of 2010. Having to hustle is a relative term, to me having the pressure of knowing that you can't live on a job that pays less than $17-$18 an hour in an expensive city such as NYC or L.A. and having to actively compete with 4-5x the population, the scale is just not in your favor. Solely based on numbers, do you not think its easier for a recent college grad looking for work in a mid-sized 250K-500K city with about a 3rd of the expenses of a major city makes more sense? Sure there are less jobs available, that's guaranteed. However, I am not telling you to go to some place like Interlachen, Florida in where the top job in the area might be a manager at a speedway.

Getting the first job is the biggest hassle in ANY city. The "entry level" job is one of the most annoying things coming out of college. I literally started looking for jobs and saw "entry level" jobs that required experience. The reality is that many of these companies don't want to spend money on training anyone these days, so yes the first job is always going to be stressful. Minimize the stress wherever you can, move away from a city that you are probably not in the best position to succeed in the time being and look to move back later once you are established if you want to.

Your last paragraph I disagree with the most. I think my argument of people having an easier road to where they want to go makes a whole lot more sense outside of a big city if you know what you are doing. Move to a decent sized college town and look for what big businesses are there.

Amazon, Xerox, University of Kentucky, Lexmark, Ashland/Valvoline Oil, and Walmart (Don't knock it) are all in Lexington and provide opportunities for people to grow. You can also expand that to Louisville if you are willing to travel. Walmart is a good option if you have a liberal arts, comm, or art related field because I would assume that if you stuck it out you can make it to an assistant manager position relatively quickly and have the flexibility to move to other parts of the country once a manager position opens up in an area you desire or benefit from.

So what is the best part of it all? Knowing that even if it took you 2 years to ultimately make great strides in your field and were able to support yourself on a low wage paying job. Something that is proving to be damn near impossible in NYC or other large cities these days. I understand that my argument is heavily toward the city of New York, but it is the largest city in the country and Los Angeles can't be THAT far off. At least San Francisco pays somewhat reasonable wages from what I hear, too bad "the greatest city in the world" is really behind in terms of providing a livable wage to the majority of residents. That is not something I can't support even if it where I was born and raised.

 

[Serious]

 

[Liquid]

 

[DEAD7]

They should be thankful to have a job...

How does a fry cook walk out? Doesn't he know how easy he is to replace.

Workers deciding how much their work is worth is one of the nuttier liberal phenomenons.

 

[DEAD7]

not only is it sustainable but it would improve the economy. we need people spending money. not billionaires/millionaires hoarding it in banks. fast food workers tend to not save as they are incredibly poor. everything they get goes toward an expense. they'd have a little more discretionary income with the raise. that means more spending. that means a better economy for everyone.

@ niqqas believing this.

 

[Richard Wright]

See I view things a little differently because I hate to leave the possibility to failure open. So for example I am in Lexington, KY where my itemized list of bills is common for the recent college grad who wants to live on their own can find. So you are out of college and need a place to work, chances are you don't have much savings and are in debt, what are you going to do if you can't land that dream job of your dreams in 6-9 months? That's right, you are taking a job that is supposedly "below" your worth. That leaves open the greater possibility for failure for more than half of the population in a very expensive city WITHOUT college degrees as well in addition to the ones who finished their bachelors.

I don't view it on a scale of "jobs for college students" except for a very select fields such as medical, computer science, chemistry, and other select few science fields. Everything else? There is this stretched term that I am sure you are aware of and that's the "related field" in where any degree that your employer finds as even remotely relevant. I mentioned it in other posts here, you are not above ANY JOB especially when you are starting out. Many dig themselves in an even deeper hole because they are "too good" for a place like Walmart or Target.

I also don't agree with the idea that degrees are not portable. This is not the 90's or even the early 00's, the world is changing drastically and was evident to me the minute I stepped into Amazon out here. Almost all the entry level manager jobs where occupied from people all over the country and NOT Kentucky residents. Furthermore, many had transferred to other facilities/companies outside of the state before I quit at the end of 2010. Having to hustle is a relative term, to me having the pressure of knowing that you can't live on a job that pays less than $17-$18 an hour in an expensive city such as NYC or L.A. and having to actively compete with 4-5x the population, the scale is just not in your favor. Solely based on numbers, do you not think its easier for a recent college grad looking for work in a mid-sized 250K-500K city with about a 3rd of the expenses of a major city makes more sense? Sure there are less jobs available, that's guaranteed. However, I am not telling you to go to some place like Interlachen, Florida in where the top job in the area might be a manager at a speedway.

Getting the first job is the biggest hassle in ANY city. The "entry level" job is one of the most annoying things coming out of college. I literally started looking for jobs and saw "entry level" jobs that required experience. The reality is that many of these companies don't want to spend money on training anyone these days, so yes the first job is always going to be stressful. Minimize the stress wherever you can, move away from a city that you are probably not in the best position to succeed in the time being and look to move back later once you are established if you want to.

Your last paragraph I disagree with the most. I think my argument of people having an easier road to where they want to go makes a whole lot more sense outside of a big city if you know what you are doing. Move to a decent sized college town and look for what big businesses are there.

Amazon, Xerox, University of Kentucky, Lexmark, Ashland/Valvoline Oil, and Walmart (Don't knock it) are all in Lexington and provide opportunities for people to grow. You can also expand that to Louisville if you are willing to travel. Walmart is a good option if you have a liberal arts, comm, or art related field because I would assume that if you stuck it out you can make it to an assistant manager position relatively quickly and have the flexibility to move to other parts of the country once a manager position opens up in an area you desire or benefit from.

So what is the best part of it all? Knowing that even if it took you 2 years to ultimately make great strides in your field and were able to support yourself on a low wage paying job. Something that is proving to be damn near impossible in NYC or other large cities these days. I understand that my argument is heavily toward the city of New York, but it is the largest city in the country and Los Angeles can't be THAT far off. At least San Francisco pays somewhat reasonable wages from what I hear, too bad "the greatest city in the world" is really behind in terms of providing a livable wage to the majority of residents. That is not something I can't support even if it where I was born and raised.

I heavily co-sign this. People need to /are starting to realize that this new world needs you to always be on your feet. ANything you're doing needs to be used as a stepping stone to something greater. Complaining about underemployment and low wages just opens up more opportunity for the next man. People need to market what they have better.

Also up your resume by learning photoshop, html, excel, etc.

 

[Allah]

the worker-employer relationship is 50-50 at best in terms of making a business function and the wages of the workers should reflect this.

 

[DEAD7]

the worker-employer relationship is 50-50 at best in terms of making a business function and the wages of the workers should reflect this.

This isnt even remotely true.

 

[Allah]

This isnt even remotely true.

then why is this news? the fact is that the worker is the one responsible for the day to day functioning of any business. for mcdonalds and every other marketplace job it is the cashier, the cook, the busboy that creates revenue. the only thing that the owner can do is provide the supplies that the worker uses, he is unable to create anything new from these supplies. what does a person who goes to mcdonalds buy? a burger. he gives the money to a cashier. the cashier tells the cook to cook the burger. the busboy then delivers the burger/cleans the table. the owner counts the money, the workers make it. the manager needs the worker just as much if not more than the worker needs the manager.

 

[DEAD7]

then why is this news? the fact is that the worker is the one responsible for the day to day functioning of any business. for mcdonalds and every other marketplace job it is the cashier, the cook, the busboy that creates revenue. the only thing that the owner can do is provide the supplies that the worker uses, he is unable to create anything new from these supplies. what does a person who goes to mcdonalds buy? a burger. he gives the money to a cashier. the cashier tells the cook to cook the burger. the busboy then delivers the burger/cleans the table. the owner counts the money, the workers make it. the manager needs the worker just as much if not more than the worker needs the manager.

Its not a 50-50 relationship as you suggest, mere supply and demand shows us that. McDonald workers who walk out, will be replaced possibly the same day, and as a franchise Micky D's wont even miss a step. We have to stop giving the employees the idea that they have this sort of equal power. They dont.

 

[DEAD7]

Businesses access how much a job is worth based on 1) how integral it is to the business, and 2) supply and demand of competent workers(not necessarily in that order)


The would be workers cost of living is never considered, and shouldn't be.

What we should be looking at is why the cost of living is rising, and not why wages aren't keeping up.

 

[Allah]

Its not a 50-50 relationship as you suggest, mere supply and demand shows us that. McDonald workers who walk out, will be replaced possibly the same day, and as a franchise Micky D's wont even miss a step. We have to stop giving the employees the idea that they have this sort of equal power. They dont.

just because they can be replaced doesnt change the relationship they have within the business. you pay someone for the function they perform. all im saying is that labor, however rudimentary is severely undervalued. a worker produces 8 dollars of value in 5 mins not one hour. value doesnt equate to power, power comes through association with like minds which is what these workers are attempting

 

[Richard Wright]

just because they can be replaced doesnt change the relationship they have within the business. you pay someone for the function they perform. all im saying is that labor, however rudimentary is severely undervalued. a worker produces 8 dollars of value in 5 mins not one hour. value doesnt equate to power, power comes through association with like minds which is what these workers are attempting

This marxist economics is jut not applicable to the real world. What risk are the workers taking being there outside of opportunity cost? You do realize that once people escaped these ways of thinking the economy took off? The industrial revolution is over

 

[DEAD7]

Workers enter into a voluntary contract with their employer... one that they are free to leave for greener pastures at anytime. I dont get the problem with low wage jobs... They are where you build human capital.


do people really thin you are suppose to be able to support a family flipping patties?


Entry level jobs are just that, entry level. Capitalism is a system of economic mobility, and very few people spend their life making minimum wage.