Wow, he does have horrible mic skills. The video with him rambling on about him & the Big Show riding motorcycles in the desert had me like is he talking about?
Can yall expand on this? What's some other politicing that he's done besides with DDP and Awesome? I wasn't up on the dirtsheets back then so I never heard about any of this. Would like to hear the other side of the coin to him being a selfless locker room leader.
I mentioned the WCW guys in my OP like Jericho, DDP and Mike Awesome. Undertaker was wrestling stiff with all of the WCW guys and would complain if he got it back. There was also Kronik (Bryan Clark and Brian Adams). That one was weird because they were both former WWF guys (Adam Bomb & Crush), so they knew the WWF style and how the Undertaker works. To be fair, their match with Kane/Taker sucked. Did they deserve to get fired over it? I don't know. I think real life heat played a role there. I don't think he ever put over Booker T at all either. I mentioned CM Punk, Batista and Mr. Kennedy already. John Cena got thrown to the Undertaker early when the rap gimmick started taking off for some reason too. The frustrating thing was how Undertaker would push these talented guys aside and would try to put over guys like Heidenreich, Khali, Nathan Jones, Albert and had multiple feuds with Kane and Big Show putting them over.
Let me preface this thread saying that I know some of y'all will catch feelings for going after your childhood favorite, but fukk the Undertaker & fukk everybody who loves him in 2016
The Undertaker has been a pretty decent in-ring performer for most of his career. Emphasis on MOST. The reason I'm making is thread is that I want to show you how overblown this dude's "legacy" really is. I am just sick of Mascara Mark coming through every year and refusing to put anyone over only for him to dip and do it again the next year. These stupid ass fans just give him a pass for it too.
Just to put it out there, I’ve never been a fan of the Undertaker. He was always just there, and I was indifferent. I never even disliked him until recently. I respect his in-ring work, but I just never found him entertaining. All of his classic matches were moreso due to the other person. He's never carried a bad wrestler to a great match. He’s always been a terrible promo. He’s a hypocrite and a politician. His legacy is overblown and tired just like his appearances for the last 6 or so years. Let’s bury the Undertaker once and for all, TSC style
Let’s start off with arguably his three best matches.
The first match up for discussion is the Hell in a Cell from King of the Ring 1998. I don’t even have to tell you who was in this match. Let’s just go to the iconic moments of this match.
That match is remembered for the match that Foley cemented his legacy. Whenever anyone brings up Hell in a Cell, they bring up Mick Foley and all of those crazy ass spots. The Undertaker won that match, but nobody remembers that. Just an afterthought.
Let's move on. The second and third matches up for discussion are Wrestlemania 25 and Wrestlemania 26. Again, I don't have to tell you who was Undertaker’s opponent because his opponent once again outshines him. Wrestlemania 25 is probably the best Wrestlemania match in the last 10 years. Let's look at the iconic moments.
Now, you’re probably hitting this point of the thread and thinking, “TheGreatShowtime, both of these matches were great. This seems like a reach. Triple H’s daughters are gonna Google the Undertaker's best matches and find these classics. How can you possibly knock him on this? ”
Shawn always had great chemistry with the Undertaker. I can’t think of a stinker that these two had with each other. But we’re not talking about those 90’s matches. We’re talking WM 25 and WM 26. HBK made these particular matches. I don’t even like Shawn Michaels like that, but there's no denying it. I personally only liked the Wrestlemania 25 match (I understand why some may like the WM26 match more, but whatever). That WM 25 match was so good that they tried to repeat it the next year. That match was so good it laid the foundation for every fukking Undertaker match that followed (hell, every main event match on any major PPV that followed with all the spam finishers). Triple H’s matches with Mean Mark had the same formula. CM Punk’s match with Mean Mark had the same formula. Brock Lesnar’s matches with Mean Mark had the same formula. Bray Wyatt’s matches with Mean Mark had the same tired formula.
Triple H, CM Punk and Brock Lesnar are all unique wrestlers with styles different from HBK. Why were they forced to wrestle the same match with the Undertaker? Because the Undertaker has been wrestling the same god damn match for almost a decade. Why does he get a pass for his laziness? Because he taped his fists back in 96?
These are the Undertaker's best three matches, and he was carried by two legendary superstars in both of them. Like I said earlier, the Undertaker could never have a good match if the other guy wasn't as good or better than him. Guys like Batista, John Cena and Roman Reigns catch all sorts of shyt for being the same way, but the Undertaker gets a pass. Just putting that out there.
Let’s move on to Undertaker’s awful promos and one liners.
I want to start off with a promo from early in his career to show how little he’s progressed. This was when he was in the USWA as the Master of Pain. He’s explaining to the audience how he was in the Atlanta State Penitentiary because he killed two chump punks that jumped him in a parking lot
Let’s move onto the Deadman Undertaker gimmick at SummerSlam 1995. This mufukka still fumbling over his words in a taped backstage promo
Exhibit C is when Chris Jericho (he wasn’t a Jeristooge yet) debuted in the WWF. Undertaker did not take kindly to any of the WCW guys (I’ll touch on this a little later in the thread). So when Jericho came out and called Taker the personification of boredom, Mark’s mascara started running because he legit caught feelings. He dropped the line, “I got more shower time than you got ring time” in retaliation
Fun fact - Undertaker's first one on one televised match with Jericho happened almost ten years after that promo. That's how petty this mufukka is. Again, I'll go into Undertaker's dirty backstage politics later.
That wasn’t even the worst part of that particular promo. Before Jericho came out, this fool was rambling about riding a motorcycle in the desert with no gas and Big Show threatening to murder and eat him
Not even going to spoiler this dumb shyt.
Let’s move onto ABA Undertaker. This promo has shades of written all over it. Going after TSC favorites Maven, The Rock and Coach.
And the most recent example, there was this. “The blood of your son is gonna be on your hands. Not mine.” His entrance took longer than his in-ring promo. Cokeboy is paying him millions for this
Let's move onto Undertaker's backstage politics. I see people criticize Triple H for burying talent, but Undertaker is equally as guilty. I am going to make a bullet list of four guys that I know he intentionally went out of his way to bury.
Diamond Dallas Page - Let's talk about the year 2001. In the year 2001, DDP debuted in the WWF to a HUGE reaction. Also in the year 2001, Undertaker was voted the most overrated wrestler and Wrestling Oberserver readers' least favorite wrestler. I wonder why?
The Undertaker was supposed to be a babyface during his feud with DDP. DDP was an established star in WCW, and he was labeled the "People's Champion" because everyone loved him. I don't think I've ever seen a fan or another wrestler badmouth DDP's hardwork and dedication at becoming a star.
The Undertaker had an agenda against anyone who worked at WCW as I noted with Jericho earlier. The story goes that DDP didn't bump very well working with Mustard Mark on the road, so Taker took offense to it. Chalk it up to DDP wrestling the WCW style, and Undertaker wrestling the WWF style. Whatever. There's also a story that DDP approached Undertaker about laying out their matches on paper ahead of time (this is something Randy Savage was known for doing too). Again, Mustard Mark was outraged because he only knows how to wrestle one style of a match and he'll be damned if a WCW guy tells him how to wrestle!
The storyline made absolutely no sense too. Why the fukk would DDP, who was married to dime ass Kimberly at the time, want to stalk Undertaker's white trash wife?
Even though DDP may have been buried, he has found success post-wrestling with his yoga program. Undertaker? This mufukka got SARA tattooed on his neck and later got it removed. Tell me that isn't one of the biggest L's you've ever seen
Mike Awesome - Let's stick around in 2001. This one isn't as famous as Undertaker's burial of DDP, so you may not be aware of it. Apparently, Mike Awesome was working stiff with Kane and the Undertaker, so Undertaker filled Cokeboy's head that Mike Awesome was a poor worker. Yeah, you read that right. MIKE AWESOME WAS A POOR WORKER IN THE UNDERTAKER'S OPINION. Mike Awesome was so god damn awful. Just take a look.
Mike Awesome was basically similar to the Undertaker in terms of in-ring ability & size. Instead of having good matches together, Mean Mark went out of his way to make sure that a guy who wrestled for the competition that has a similar style to him would not take his place. Could Mike Awesome have been WWF Champion? Probably not. But he could've been a whole lot more than they let him be. Instead, Undertaker pushed forward all of those BSK scrubs and later guys like Heidenreich & The Great Khali in hopes of pinning his name to their success because they were his "projects." Obviously, almost all of The Undertaker's "projects" failed. There are tons of guys on record that have given Mike Awesome props on being a great wrestler and worker (guys like RVD, for example). RIP to a great wrestler.
Batista - Let's skip ahead in time to 2006-2007. This was the peak of Batista's career. Dude was 1a to Cena's 1b in terms of being the face of the company. What was Undertaker doing in 2006? He was basically in a year-long feud with The Great Khali. The feud with Khali peaked with the Punjabi Prison match that Khali didn't even wrestle in. Basically, the Undertaker was floundering. So, he tried to spring back into relevance by feuding with a budding star at the time (GARBAGE ASS) Mr. Kennedy. After a series of terrible matches and slowing down Kennedy's momentum, he wins the Rumble. This allows Undertaker to leach off the momentum of the guy carrying the company at the time. Undertaker does the right thing and let's Batista take that next step into an elite superstar, right? Nope. Taker wins the belt at Mania and then fights Batista to a draw at Backlash. He then loses the title to Edge in a MITB cash-in. TNT was luckier than DDP & Mike Awesome in that he didn't fade into obscurity after that.
CM Punk - Similar to Batista, CM Punk was red hot at the time he ran into a feud with The Undertaker. He just came off one of the better feuds of the last 10 years with Jeff Hardy. What was Undertaker doing while CM Punk and Jeff Hardy were carrying Smackdown? He had a feud with Big Show that was terrible and then went on a 4 month vacation. He suddenly came back into the title picture when Punk was red hot. The thing that bothers me about the CM Punk burial is that Undertaker went on record saying that CM Punk doesn't look or dress like a champion.
Apparently, this is how a champion is supposed to look/dress.
Undertaker beat CM Punk for the title, and then beat him in all the rematches that involved fatal fourways and triple threats. Great way to make a champion and future superstar. They later met again after CM Punk had his legendary 434 day WWE title run and feud with The Rock. Once again, The Undertaker caught CM Punk at one of the hottest times in his career. This time, CM Punk had to carry a Wrestlemania feud because this mufukka couldn't be bothered to show up every week. Was Undertaker there the next night on RAW after his win at Wrestlemania? Of course not. CM Punk was another casualty of The Undertaker.
This was a long ass thread, and I didn't even hit all of the topics that I wanted to. I wanted to go in on how he is that they use a photo of him from 10 years ago on PPV posters, how overrated the streak was, how terrible American Bad Ass Undertaker was (I might do this later in the comments), his WCW/USWA stuff, his wack ass worked shoot in the Attitude era, his fake ass confrontation with Brock Lesnar and how he managed to get his win back from Brock Lesnar almost a year and a half later.
25 years, wrestled with broken ribs, a fractured orbital bone, highly regarded and respected by his peers and beloved by the fans, and this is the thanks he gets? While other muthafukkers jumped ship, forfeited titles with phantom injuries, took there ball and went home he was right there. I've never been ashamed to be a member of TSC but today the day arrived, y'all disgust me
Alright, taker is my favourite wrestler so I can't let this slide. Honestly, you have SOME good points in there. A lot of it is either exaggerated or flat out wrong though. I'll also say that I think some of the resentment towards Taker is the fact that he's been deified by the announcers / WWE brass these past few years.
He carried Batista to a very solid Mania match. That shyt was NOT Batista's doing.
His promos were ok. The desert one did stink. A lot of his deadman ones fit the character, but nothing extraordinary. Solid enough for what they're supposed to be.
His HIAC with Mick, he had a broken foot. He gets forgotten about because Mick went through so much shyt himself, but Taker was pretty banged up by anyone's standards too. Mick also said that he was out on his feet, and that it was the biggest example of a wrestler "bottle feeding" another, as Taker lead him through the rest of the match. It was a match with memorable moments moreso than a wrestling clinic, but not sure wtf your beef is here.
HIAC with HBK was fantastic. HBK is HBK but Taker played his part and held up his end. Ditto their WM matches. I don't care how good HBK is, he's not getting that type of match out of a bum, or even a mediocre worker. You've created some false dichotomy where if Taker isn't HBK level, he's just some scrub. He's what you described, a guy who can have a great match when it counts. Dunno what's wrong with that. Solid 2nd tier wrestler.
The shyt with DDP is on point. From all that I've heard, that was a horrible fukkjob from WWE and Taker.
The Jericho thing, he didn't refuse to work with him. They just happened to not cross paths for 10 years. Coincidence, nothing more. Jericho wrote in his book that Taker praised him a bunch after and said he'd work with him any time.
He wrestles infrequently, but it's because that's all he can do. Many accounts of him being really beat up, physically. It's hard to be 6'8, 300lbs and have intense matches for 20 years. Look at Nash and Hogan, they're beat up despite doing 1/8th the work that Taker has.
Politics are whatever. Everyone does it to some degree. He's gotta win majority of matches because that's what the casuals want. That's why he is who he is. If he just becomes a perpetual put-over machine, he'll mean nothing and no one will care. See: Jericho for the last 5 years. Constantly putting people over isn't the answer. He gives guys a rub while still maintaining his role.
I said this in the Rock thread. I've read / listened to tons and tons of shoot interviews. Other than Rock, Taker might be the guy that people have talked the least shyt about. Even old bitter ass guys (Warrior, road dog/billy gunn, Honky, etc...) all praised him while ranting and raving about everyone else on the roster. Other than Paul London (and prob DDP), NO ONE says a bad thing about the guy.
So he's a solid 7-8/10 wrestler, with a long career, memorable moments a gimmick that's one of the most beloved in history. How is that possibly overrated?
He did put over lesnar. He really made him official in that hell in a cell match at no mercy.
I don't think he's cena as far as in ring ability and being only as good as the opponent that he works with. He's a good in ring worker especially for his size.
He put several main events on his back by delivering when the company needed him as the main attraction for mania.
He was never annoying or controlling to me.
I see where you coming from, but taker put in legit work so I can't hate.
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is he talking about?
”
written all over it. Going after TSC favorites Maven, The Rock and Coach.
he is that they use a photo of him from 10 years ago on PPV posters, how overrated the streak was, how terrible American Bad Ass Undertaker was (I might do this later in the comments), his WCW/USWA stuff, his wack ass worked shoot in the Attitude era, his fake ass confrontation with Brock Lesnar and how he managed to get his win back from Brock Lesnar almost a year and a half later.
, make sure to alert me so I can have my popcorn ready. :lupepopcorn: 
