Everything Wrong with the WWE in 2018

[Jmare007]

Honestly, the internet drastically changed (or ruined, depending on your viewpoint) wrestling. More people got access to Dave Meltzer & Wade Keller to find out the inner workings of the industry. More people started armchair quarterbacking with this limited knowledge and became vocal on the Internet & at shows. More people are stuck in nostalgia land thinking the product they grew up in was the best and current day wrestling needs to fit in that mold. There's no way to appease all of these "smart" (really dumb) wrestling fans today like you could appease all of the "mark" wrestling fans from 20-25 years ago.

Even though this is very much true, I'll always believe a good wrestling product tramples EVERYTHING.

Like, when WWE does 1 good angle that leaves people it's like every criticism goes out the window and we get a bunch of "they might be complete shyt for all these years, but that segment made it worth it" type of comments.

No matter each personal tastes or how much or little you may know about "tha biz", when wrestling is done right it's gonna grab people's attention regardless of age, knowledge and preference.

What's frustrating is that a company that has so much fukking talent fails to give people those types of moments. They used to at least be able to hit it once a year or 18 months, but it's been years now. And when that sort of gap happens, it's inevitable that fans that have been watching for years do fantasy booking to try to come up with ideas, just to show it's not that hard to have at least a decent product.

 

[Mantis Toboggan M.D.]

for some time now I've wondered what WWE's biggest problem beyond the typical "bad booking" & "poor leadership" and I just think WWE (and wrestling) are outdated. I keep thinking maybe wrestling can't be a good TV show while also being a good live show, that you got to choose one or the other. The best TV shows now run for about 10 to 12/13 weeks and take a whole year off to create new storylines, characters as well as progress what is already going on. WWE never takes time off and often just has to go with what works on that day with no concern for anything long-term & that makes for bad Television. But with Vince's supposed quote of "it's not supposed to be good" my guess he is fine with that as long as money keeps coming in.

I don’t think it’s a matter of being outdated at all. It’s that the characters are flat, stale, and one dimensional. Major League Baseball has been around over 100 years and is just fine. Boxing and martial arts competition has been around far longer than that. The problem is a lack of being willing to plan more than a few weeks ahead and book people in a manner that makes sense and let’s them thrive. Punk and Bryan had them on the brink of a potential boom period 4-7 years ago and they made a concerted effort to snuff out their heat. For the industry to thrive, the brand and stars both need to be doing well.

 

[TheGreatShowtime]

for some time now I've wondered what WWE's biggest problem beyond the typical "bad booking" & "poor leadership" and I just think WWE (and wrestling) are outdated. I keep thinking maybe wrestling can't be a good TV show while also being a good live show, that you got to choose one or the other. The best TV shows now run for about 10 to 12/13 weeks and take a whole year off to create new storylines, characters as well as progress what is already going on. WWE never takes time off and often just has to go with what works on that day with no concern for anything long-term & that makes for bad Television. But with Vince's supposed quote of "it's not supposed to be good" my guess he is fine with that as long as money keeps coming in.

I'm starting to believe this too. The WWE desperately needs an offseason/downtime for the wrestlers to recover and better storylines/characters to come to fruition. It will never happen though.

 

[Jmare007]

for some time now I've wondered what WWE's biggest problem beyond the typical "bad booking" & "poor leadership" and I just think WWE (and wrestling) are outdated. I keep thinking maybe wrestling can't be a good TV show while also being a good live show, that you got to choose one or the other. The best TV shows now run for about 10 to 12/13 weeks and take a whole year off to create new storylines, characters as well as progress what is already going on. WWE never takes time off and often just has to go with what works on that day with no concern for anything long-term & that makes for bad Television. But with Vince's supposed quote of "it's not supposed to be good" my guess he is fine with that as long as money keeps coming in.

I think that has more to do with creative having to follow to the same person all the time. It's impossible not to burn down, ran out of ideas and/or just get out of touch with your fanbase when the same motherfukker is in charge of stirring the ship.

You could have a 52 week wrestling product on TV if you had 3 people talented people taking 4 months runs/turns in having final say on the product, imo. You basically give them 8 months to come up with ideas while at the same time they are watching the product so they can figure out the wrestlers strengths and weaknesses, which wrestlers should keep getting pushed or not and which type of angles and feuds can refresh the product.

 

[Nero Christ]

I don’t think it’s a matter of being outdated at all. It’s that the characters are flat, stale, and one dimensional. Major League Baseball has been around over 100 years and is just fine. Boxing and martial arts competition has been around far longer than that. The problem is a lack of being willing to plan more than a few weeks ahead and book people in a manner that makes sense and let’s them thrive. Punk and Bryan had them on the brink of a potential boom period 4-7 years ago and they made a concerted effort to snuff out their heat. For the industry to thrive, the brand and stars both need to be doing well.

Boxing, MMA, & MLB are actual sports with the underlying aspect that the end result is unknown. WWE is entertainment, it's not fair to compare it to those. You should be comparing WWE to soap operas. However, part of what I said agrees with what you said about no long-term planning. Part of it is making a weekly TV show year-round and other parts are stubbornness from leadership. However WWE is outdated from their presentation, to the characters, to the storyline structures, to the commentary; it all needs to be revamped.

 

[trick]

I think that has more to do with creative having to follow to the same person all the time. It's impossible not to burn down, ran out of ideas and/or just get out of touch with your fanbase when the same motherfukker is in charge of stirring the ship.

You could have a 52 week wrestling product on TV if you had 3 people talented people taking 4 months runs/turns in having final say on the product, imo. You basically give them 8 months to come up with ideas while at the same time they are watching the product so they can figure out the wrestlers strengths and weaknesses, which wrestlers should keep getting pushed or not and which type of angles and feuds can refresh the product.

Yeah people keep blaming the writer's room, but I never thought the problem were the writers. You are right, they will never change unless someone new is leading the way.

I don't think the problems are exclusive to WWE though, even with New Japan or Lucha Underground, I don't think they're really breaking new ground or doing anything exciting. No one seems to be able to create a buzz in wrestling and that's a problem. And before someone mentions 'All In' in this thread, until I see this show, I don't think that show is going to be breaking new ground either. It'll be just another joint ROH/NJPW show in a bigger building.

 

[RammerJammer]

Even though this is very much true, I'll always believe a good wrestling product tramples EVERYTHING.

Like, when WWE does 1 good angle that leaves people it's like every criticism goes out the window and we get a bunch of "they might be complete shyt for all these years, but that segment made it worth it" type of comments.

No matter each personal tastes or how much or little you may know about "tha biz", when wrestling is done right it's gonna grab people's attention regardless of age, knowledge and preference.

What's frustrating is that a company that has so much fukking talent fails to give people those types of moments. They used to at least be able to hit it once a year or 18 months, but it's been years now. And when that sort of gap happens, it's inevitable that fans that have been watching for years do fantasy booking to try to come up with ideas, just to show it's not that hard to have at least a decent product.

100% agree, like that Ronda segment two weeks ago, had the entire TSC like

By the next segment everyone was posting ass and titties. Now imagine if WWE could put on a series of fire ass RAWs, criticism would dwindle.

People bring up, "well doesn't matter what WWE does you're gonna complain anyway". That's not true because everytime WWE does something good, they fukk it up not to soon after even the little things like Fandangoing which they ruined.

That Sasha/Bayley segment last week was such a step in the right direction but yet they took 30 steps back by sending them to counseling, it should be a heated ass feud with fades on sight every time they see each other but they got them acting like 9th grade girls that are beefing, something that @TheGreatShowtime alluded to.

 

[Nero Christ]

I think that has more to do with creative having to follow to the same person all the time. It's impossible not to burn down, ran out of ideas and/or just get out of touch with your fanbase when the same motherfukker is in charge of stirring the ship.

You could have a 52 week wrestling product on TV if you had 3 people talented people taking 4 months runs/turns in having final say on the product, imo. You basically give them 8 months to come up with ideas while at the same time they are watching the product so they can figure out the wrestlers strengths and weaknesses, which wrestlers should keep getting pushed or not and which type of angles and feuds can refresh the product.

Thing is when you have various people running the show, ideas can get bungled up & soon enough egos show themselves but this is different and is at least worth a try. I still think, downtime is needed if you're going to make a good TV show. You'd get tired of Game of Thrones if it was on TV every Sunday, and things would run thin too.

 

[TheGreatShowtime]

A lot of good ideas and discussion in this thread, and it's been surprisingly civil

 

[trick]

Thing is when you have various people running the show, ideas can get bungled up & soon enough egos show themselves but this is different and is at least worth a try. I still think, downtime is needed if you're going to make a good TV show. You'd get tired of Game of Thrones if it was on TV every Sunday, and things would run thin too.

The difference between a professional writer's room and a WWE writer's room is this though: a TV writing room will try to create something good. You assign a writer or two to a single episode, and everyone pitches their ideas. They storyboard everything and discuss every minute detail about every character. One teleplay is written in a week by one or two people.

The WWE writer's room is ran by a geriatic maniac who expects people to be on call 24/7, and never accepts anyone's ideas until people convinces him it was the old man's idea in the first place. They don't plan anything out in advance, and turnover in the writer's room is high. Scripts are churned out minute by minute, and nothing is confirmed until the minute they go to air live.

 

[RammerJammer]

A lot of good ideas and discussion in this thread, and it's been surprisingly civil

Because the contrarians haven't showed up.

Also, most people agree that WWE is the worst it's been since 2010. While most companies are on the come up, WWE just refuses to get better, hell even Impact Wrestling is getting better.

 

[Nero Christ]

The difference between a professional writer's room and a WWE writer's room is this though: a TV writing room will try to create something good. You assign a writer or two to a single episode, and everyone pitches their ideas. They storyboard everything and discuss every minute detail about every character. One teleplay is written in a week by one or two people.

The WWE writer's room is ran by a geriatic maniac who expects people to be on call 24/7, and never accepts anyone's ideas until people convinces him it was the old man's idea in the first place. They don't plan anything out in advance, and turnover in the writer's room is high. Scripts are churned out minute by minute, and nothing is confirmed until the minute they go to air live.

all true what you said It's just that when you got to create something every week, you'll eventually run thin on ideas and rehash things. I mean we're still seeing the evil foreigner all these years later While a downtime won't help against Vince, from making a good television show standpoint, it to me is what has to be done.

 

[JerseyBoy23]

I don’t 100% agree with the bit about NXT. NXT isn’t just a wrestling school it’s a finishing school.

Sami Zayn isn’t El Generico anymore and he found himself in NXT.

Nakamura needed time to learn English, become acusstomed to a new country, learn the rules of TV, how to engage an American audience, intro etc. in NXT.

They learn valuable things there.

AJ skipped NXT but it took him some time to adjust. When Big Show and Jericho came over, they needed time to adjust. Braun same thing.

NXT is finishing school. It gives them a primer for the MR. I think it’s very nessasary.

It’s not about Wins and Loses in NXT, it’s about getting accustomed to the travel, payroll, hierarchy, culture and expectations of the company. This shyt is a job for them.

Elias never won anything of note in NXT, and he’s one of the best things going today. Everything is case by case.

With exception of Tyler Breeze I really think every guy who came out of NXT is about where their level of potential is.

Apollo was terrible, always been bland and terrible, horrible promo, great physique and athletic. He’s a tag guy at best. They put him someone with personality.

Finn is a upper/midcarder. Bad booking aside, he’s clearly valued.

Baron Corbin goon utility guy. He’s like a warlord, haku, big boss man, type of wrestler. ThTs what he will always be and that’s okay.

Kevin Owens has had a great career so far, he got to head butt his fukking boss on live tv and won the feud.

Joe is booked viciously and I’m betting he will be who takes the title from AJ.

I think NXT does just fine.

As a finishing school, they're cool.

As a development from scratch territory, they're not up to par at all.

 

[JerseyBoy23]

Another thing I forgot to mention about the part-timers is how scary this is paralleling the mid-90's "New Generation" booking. Bret & Shawn had to worry about Hogan/Warrior/Backlund all coming back for the main event spots once they were clearly positioned as the top guys. Just let go of the nostalgia act when it comes to the titles. You'd think Cokeboy would've learned his lesson with that already.

I joked about this once but WWE's been coasting in the New Generation era for like the last 10 years now.

 

[Jmare007]

Thing is when you have various people running the show, ideas can get bungled up & soon enough egos show themselves but this is different and is at least worth a try. I still think, downtime is needed if you're going to make a good TV show. You'd get tired of Game of Thrones if it was on TV every Sunday, and things would run thin too.

It's certainly not easy, and that's why a 4 month run for every Big 4 PPV wouldn't be that bad. You are basically building four mini-seasons for a finale. And of course, the people leading HAVE to work as a team, if not it would end up being a mess, as you said.

In current wrestling egos aren't as hard to handle than in the past. If you give theses dudes and gals a good story and time to work in and out of the ring - with the money that implies - they wont give you too much trouble and fukk up your locker room or your ability to book like in previous generations.

I don't think the problems are exclusive to WWE though, even with New Japan or Lucha Underground, I don't think they're really breaking new ground or doing anything exciting. No one seems to be able to create a buzz in wrestling and that's a problem. And before someone mentions 'All In' in this thread, until I see this show, I don't think that show is going to be breaking new ground either. It'll be just another joint ROH/NJPW show in a bigger building.

Gedo's been booking for 12 years now, of course he was gonna end up becoming the lazy motherfukker he's been the last 4 or 5 years.

Puro tends to be more flexible as it doesn't require the toll of weekly TV shows, but more than 5-6 years with the book is insane. Even Baba had his down times and that motherfukker was a genius.