King Kreole
natural blondie like goku
Been heard the same thingHL Dems told me you cant pass legislation targeting blacks... has to be for everyone or it aint happening...
Liz ain't no normal Dem
Elizabeth Warren HQ: She's Got A Plan!
- Thread starter King Kreole
- Start date
Liz ain't no normal Dem
storyteller
Superstar
Do people have genuine critiques of her policy proposals or does the "she can't beat Trump" argument fall entirely on Trump calling her Pocahontas?
AnonymityX1000
Veteran
Maybe it is a personal/charisma issue but she is on point policy wise.
the cac mamba
Veteran
its because americans dont care about policy
trump didnt have any policy in 2016, he just used positive adjectives and thinly veiled racism
AnonymityX1000
Veteran
He didn't get specific but he did say things people liked, end the wars, bring back the jobs, close the border, etc.its because americans dont care about policy
trump didnt have any policy in 2016, he just used positive adjectives and thinly veiled racism
storyteller
Superstar
I can see debating the merits of her holding up on a debate stage, but I think we need to put a lot more emphasis on developing policy and a platform for whomever we choose to put forward (or for us to push them toward). That's the main reason I'm wondering if anyone critical of Warren has actual problems with the policy, I'm curious if the only problem is the messenger for these people.
storyteller
Superstar
Yep, Build a Wall; Cut taxes for everyone; Save Mining; and Repeal and Replace Obamacare were all policy prescriptions. Some weren't honest, some were just plain stupid, but his messages had policy ideas built into them out the gate.
King Kreole
natural blondie like goku
The vast majority of arguments against her are based on the latter. My suspicion is that it's people having taken the wrong lesson from 2016; namely that the Trump campaign won by solely running on appeals to racism and sexism and xenophobia, etc. And so people believe that in response, the Democrats' primary motivation should be playing the game on that turf. "We have to run a white man to beat him! I want someone who can bully Trump back! Trump would destroy any woman/POC! We should run a celebrity!" These are self-sabotaging sentiments, because they're letting Trump set the discourse, which further centralizes him as a powerful figure. It also falls for the narrative pumped out by MSM and establishment Democrats that Trump's campaign and appeal was entirely "superficial" right-wing culture war stuff. They say this because to acknowledge the truth would be a self-indictment of own complicity in the charade that is "the American dream". They refuse to acknowledge that he had actual policy proposals and outflanked Clinton/Democrats on a number of issues pertaining to the welfare of the average American.
A lot of people have taken Trump's victory personally and let him live rent-free in their headspace. They understandably want a measure of revenge for the humiliation he's doled out, which is why they're so invested in the Mueller saga. But the path forward isn't to roll around in identity politics ("Have to run a white guy! A woman can't beat him!") or let Trump dictate the terms of engagement ("Trump called Warren Pocohantas, it's all over for her!"). You have to have an ideology beyond Trump. You can't just say Trump is shyt, you have to say how you are good. You have to speak to the material concerns of the populace. You have to become their champion. That's how Warren will beat Trump. Anyone whose sole appeal is that they can get in the pit and "take the fight to Trump" will probably lose. You beat him by looking past him.
AnonymityX1000
Veteran
This part is sad and I have actually had to stop talking politics to a couple of friends behind it. They hate him so intensly they are irrational about the path forward and also now stick up for people they Normally wouldn't like but do now cause they oppose Trump. Think David Frum, James Comey when he was on his book tour and all the media pundits and comedians who's whole schtick is insulting Trump.
King Kreole
natural blondie like goku
Yeah, the #Resistance has become a fukking joke by allowing itself to become enamored with the #NeverTrump Republican scumbags like Comey, Frum, Kristol, Erickson, Boot, Schmidt, Clapper, etc. Anyone who has a bad word to say about Trump is automatically welcomed into the fold, it's grotesque. Many of these people are even worse than Trump because they carried water for the fukking War in Iraq and the Bush Administration. Lots of the #Resitance even like Bush now apparently. It's a total failure of principled politics and indicates the most shallow understanding of the role politics can and should play in our lives. I can kind of understand it, because a ton of these people were activated by Trump's win, and are just now, for the first time in their lives, paying close attention to the political arena. The problem is they view Trump as the disease instead of a symptom of the disease, and when pressed to support the progressive policies that will meaningfully move the country forward, they retreat into their bourgeois bubble and punch left. The tent is too large.
i hate the cac mamba
King Kreole
natural blondie like goku
AnonymityX1000
Veteran
Yeah the problem is we personally are doing fine so the real suffering is just obscure (bourgeois bubble). I was a Dem party loyalist paying close attention to all the beltway pundits just like them prior to Trump's victory but that shyt woke me the fukk up. So I try to explain the Progressive agenda but they are either too cynical to see it working or too indoctrinated by the party/media to think it is the right thing to do.
King Kreole
natural blondie like goku
First big foreign policy speech of the campaign.
