Dwyane Wade to the Cavs for 1-year, $2.3M

[Codeine Bryant]

That's not how defensive rating works you idiot. Defensive rating is based on the lineups you're in - not your individual defense (unless you're a defensive anchor, then with the appropriate context it can be used). DWade comes off the bench, therefore he faces WORSE offensive lineups. If JR continued to come off the bench, and DWade was the starter, JR would have the better defensive rating.

Do you not see almost all of the bench players have the best DRTGs, whereas the starters have the worst?

Jeff Green has a better defensive rating than LeBron - does that mean Green is a better defender than LeBron?

Channing Frye has a better defensive rating than LeBron - does that mean Frye is a better defender than LeBron?

Kyle Korver has a better defensive rating than LeBron - does that mean Korver is a better defender than LeBron?

Jose Calderon has a better defensive rating than LeBron - does that mean Calderon is a better defender than LeBron?

First of all, the league-wide ORTG was higher last season, therefore by standard the Cavs had a BETTER defensive rating last season.

Second of all:

League /// Stats /// Cleaning the Glass (sans garbage time/possessions at the end of quarters) - last season in full, the Cavs had a 110.2 DRTG

League /// Stats /// Cleaning the Glass (sans garbage time/possessions at the end of quarters) - this season, the Cavs have a 110.5 DRTG

Furthermore, compared to this time last season:

They had 104.7 DRTG this time last season - ranked 17th in the league - Teams Advanced

They have a 108 DRTG this season - ranked 25th in the league - Teams Advanced

Not only were you wrong trying to up that quote (why would you quote it in the first place, if you were going to post DRTGs that were identical?), not only were you wrong quoting DRTGs without the proper context, but you were wrong also because this time last season they had a better defensive rating too.

:cotdamn:

 

[O.G.B]

That's not how defensive rating works you idiot. Defensive rating is based on the lineups you're in - not your individual defense (unless you're a defensive anchor, then with the appropriate context it can be used).

Do you not see almost all of the bench players have the best DRTGs, whereas the starters have the worst?

Jeff Green has a better defensive rating than LeBron - does that mean Green is a better defender than LeBron?

Channing Frye has a better defensive rating than LeBron - does that mean Frye is a better defender than LeBron?

Kyle Korver has a better defensive rating than LeBron - does that mean Korver is a better defender than LeBron?

Jose Calderon has a better defensive rating than LeBron - does that mean Calderon is a better defender than LeBron?

More nonsensical bullshyt! At this dumb fukk@Gil Scott-Heroin making up erroneous metrics!


Defensive Rating
Just as Oliver's Offensive Rating represents points produced by the player per 100 possessions consumed, his Defensive Rating estimates how many points the player allowed per 100 possessions he individually faced while on the court.

The core of the Defensive Rating calculation is the concept of the individual Defensive Stop. Stops take into account the instances of a player ending an opposing possession that are tracked in the boxscore (blocks, steals, and defensive rebounds), in addition to an estimate for the number of forced turnovers and forced misses by the player which aren't captured by steals and blocks.

The ACTUAL formula for Stops is:

• Stops = Stops1 + Stops2

where:

• Stops1 = STL + BLK * FMwt * (1 - 1.07 * DOR%) + DRB * (1 - FMwt)
• FMwt = (DFG% * (1 - DOR%)) / (DFG% * (1 - DOR%) + (1 - DFG%) * DOR%)
• DOR% = Opponent_ORB / (Opponent_ORB + Team_DRB)
• DFG% = Opponent_FGM / Opponent_FGA
• Stops2 = (((Opponent_FGA - Opponent_FGM - Team_BLK) / Team_MP) * FMwt * (1 - 1.07 * DOR%) + ((Opponent_TOV - Team_STL) / Team_MP)) * MP + (PF / Team_PF) * 0.4 * Opponent_FTA * (1 - (Opponent_FTM / Opponent_FTA))^2

Also necessary is the calculation of Stop%, which is the rate at which a player forces a defensive stop as a percentage of individual possessions faced (essentially the inverse of Floor%, but for defenders):

• Stop% = (Stops * Opponent_MP) / (Team_Possessions * MP)

With those numbers in hand, individual Defensive Rating can be computed:

• DRtg = Team_Defensive_Rating + 0.2 * (100 * D_Pts_per_ScPoss * (1 - Stop%) - Team_Defensive_Rating)

where:

• Team_Defensive_Rating = 100 * (Opponent_PTS / Team_Possessions)
• D_Pts_per_ScPoss = Opponent_PTS / (Opponent_FGM + (1 - (1 - (Opponent_FTM / Opponent_FTA))^2) * Opponent_FTA*0.4)

DWade comes off the bench, therefore he faces WORSE offensive lineups. If JR continued to come off the bench, and DWade was the starter, JR would have the better defensive rating.

More complete and utter crap. Wade does come off the bench but that has no bearing on the fact that Wade could also be defending a starter in certain situations depending on the Cavs or other teams particular lineup or substitution during the game. Also based on the ebb & flow of the actual game, the bench lineup can/could actually be the better offensive unit at times.


Also when looking at the raw individual stats, with less minutes per game played, Wade has the same number of steals as J.R (22) while D Wade also has more overall blocks (19) to J.R's (1) along with more defensive rebounds (66) to J.R's (55). So based on the primary defensive rating formula (blocks, steals, and defensive rebounds), it's a no brainer that D Wade has a better defensive rating than J.R. EVEN AS A BACKUP PLAYING LESS MINUTES. THEREFORE, YOUR BULLshyt THEORY HOLDS ABSOLUTELY NO WEIGHT!

They had 104.7 DRTG this time last season - ranked 17th in the league - Teams Advanced

They have a 108 DRTG this season - ranked 25th in the league - Teams Advanced

Cleveland's last seasons DRTG is only better (this time last season) than the Cavs current DRTG because they've haven't had a decent center as TT hasn't played for most of the season this year

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

More nonsensical bullshyt! At this dumb fukk@Gil Scott-Heroin making up erroneous metrics!


Defensive Rating
Just as Oliver's Offensive Rating represents points produced by the player per 100 possessions consumed, his Defensive Rating estimates how many points the player allowed per 100 possessions he individually faced while on the court.

The core of the Defensive Rating calculation is the concept of the individual Defensive Stop. Stops take into account the instances of a player ending an opposing possession that are tracked in the boxscore (blocks, steals, and defensive rebounds), in addition to an estimate for the number of forced turnovers and forced misses by the player which aren't captured by steals and blocks.

The ACTUAL formula for Stops is:

• Stops = Stops1 + Stops2

where:

• Stops1 = STL + BLK * FMwt * (1 - 1.07 * DOR%) + DRB * (1 - FMwt)
• FMwt = (DFG% * (1 - DOR%)) / (DFG% * (1 - DOR%) + (1 - DFG%) * DOR%)
• DOR% = Opponent_ORB / (Opponent_ORB + Team_DRB)
• DFG% = Opponent_FGM / Opponent_FGA
• Stops2 = (((Opponent_FGA - Opponent_FGM - Team_BLK) / Team_MP) * FMwt * (1 - 1.07 * DOR%) + ((Opponent_TOV - Team_STL) / Team_MP)) * MP + (PF / Team_PF) * 0.4 * Opponent_FTA * (1 - (Opponent_FTM / Opponent_FTA))^2

Also necessary is the calculation of Stop%, which is the rate at which a player forces a defensive stop as a percentage of individual possessions faced (essentially the inverse of Floor%, but for defenders):

• Stop% = (Stops * Opponent_MP) / (Team_Possessions * MP)

With those numbers in hand, individual Defensive Rating can be computed:

• DRtg = Team_Defensive_Rating + 0.2 * (100 * D_Pts_per_ScPoss * (1 - Stop%) - Team_Defensive_Rating)

where:

• Team_Defensive_Rating = 100 * (Opponent_PTS / Team_Possessions)
• D_Pts_per_ScPoss = Opponent_PTS / (Opponent_FGM + (1 - (1 - (Opponent_FTM / Opponent_FTA))^2) * Opponent_FTA*0.4)

Oliver's DRTG formula (which is used on BBallRef) is different to the NBA.com formula - the stats that YOU posted. The NBA.com stats are simply how many points the team gives up per 100 possessions when that player is on the court. You have absolutely no idea of what you're talking about - you're using the glossary run for a different metric from another site. Stop using stats if you don't know how to use them properly. Furthermore, the problem with BBallRef's DRTG formula is that it only takes into account a player's steals, blocks and defensive rebounds, and weighs it against the rest of the team's (all #s in the box score) - not any other defensive play - nevermind the fact that it STILL is primarily based on the lineups you play in and play against, not one's individual defense.

More complete and utter crap. Wade does come off the bench but that has no bearing on the fact that Wade could also be defending a starter in certain situations depending on the Cavs or other teams particular lineup or substitution during the game. Also based on the ebb & flow of the actual game, the bench lineup can/could actually be the better offensive unit at times.

Not only is DWade not capable of handling the main defensive guard reps (he can't run around screens, defending off-ball activity on every possession anymore - he's too slow and old), but if he did, he wouldn't have the energy on offense to do anything, which is half the reason he's able to be productive coming off the bench because he doesn't have the defensive responsibilities/workload that JR does.

Also when looking at the raw individual stats, with less minutes per game played, Wade has the same number of steals as J.R (22) while D Wade also has more overall blocks (19) to J.R's (1) along with more defensive rebounds (66) to J.R's (55). So based on the primary defensive rating formula (blocks, steals, and defensive rebounds), it's a no brainer that D Wade has a better defensive rating than J.R. EVEN AS A BACKUP PLAYING LESS MINUTES. THEREFORE, YOUR BULLshyt THEORY HOLDS ABSOLUTELY NO WEIGHT!

Equate blocks, steals and defensive rebounds to automatically being a better defender brehs.

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

Cleveland's last seasons DRTG is only better (this time last season) than the Cavs current DRTG because they've haven't had a decent center as TT hasn't played for most of the season this year

They still had a better defense this time last season. You were wrong for upping that quote.

 

[O.G.B]

Oliver's DRTG formula (which is used on BBallRef) is different to the NBA.com formula - the stats that YOU posted. The NBA.com stats are simply how many points the team gives up per 100 possessions when that player is on the court. You have absolutely no idea of what you're talking about - you're using the glossary run for a different metric from another site. Stop using stats if you don't know how to use them properly.

No shyt Sherlock! The NBA website stat is listed as DEF RTG which is Oliver's own moniker for his specific formula, however NBA.com is actually using a revised metric based on John Hollinger's own formula which is actually called Defensive Efficiency (DEF EFF) & shouldn't be labeled as DEF RTG/DRTG as they are two separate stats. So if you have a problem with the incorrect categorization of the stat, then take it up with NBA.com.




Hollinger Stats - Defensive Efficiency - Cleveland Cavaliers: DEF EFF - 108.0

Hollinger's NBA Team Stats - ESPN Insider - National Basketball Association - ESPN


Cleveland Cavaliers DEF RTG - 108.0

Teams Defense

Furthermore, the problem with BBallRef's DRTG formula is that it only takes into account a player's steals, blocks and defensive rebounds, and weighs it against the rest of the team's (all #s in the box score) - not any other defensive play

WRONG AGAIN! Oliver's formula for Defensive rating also takes into consideration the number of forced turnovers and forced misses by the player which aren't captured by steals and blocks.

nevermind the fact that it STILL is primarily based on the lineups you play in and play against, not one's individual defense.

How does Oliver's Defensive rating formula not primarily measured in individual defense when it "takes into account a player's steals, blocks and defensive rebounds" as you stated?

"The core of the Defensive Rating calculation is the concept of the individual Defensive Stop. Stops take into account the instances of a player ending an opposing possession that are tracked in the boxscore (blocks, steals, and defensive rebounds)."

Not only is DWade not capable of handling the main defensive guard reps (he can't run around screens, defending off-ball activity on every possession anymore - he's too slow and old), but if he did, he wouldn't have the energy on offense to do anything, which is half the reason he's able to be productive coming off the bench because he doesn't have the defensive responsibilities/workload that JR does.

All this garbage you wrote is irrelevant because Wade as a backup doesn't have to play the same minutes he once did as a starter, which is why he's still able to defend at a decent level even against starting SG's in certain lineup situations/substitutions.

Equate blocks, steals and defensive rebounds to automatically being a better defender brehs.

Ignore crucial defensive blocks, steals and rebounds stats because it doesn't fit your narrative & proves you're incorrect brehs

 

[HiphopRelated]

Wade's just the better player regardless of role. Nothing more needs to be said, and I'm not arguing it

 

[Ain't That Something]

Wade's just the better player regardless of role. Nothing more needs to be said, and I'm not arguing it

This

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

@O.G.B is another classic example of someone who doesn't know how to use stats properly. Exposing himself at every turn.

 

[KOBE]

I don't understand why people are so against saying someone has fallen from what they once were. It's true for Wade, he's nowhere near what he once was. He's been doing great as a bench player and that's cool, but he doesn't compare to his former self and to say he does is only insulting him.

 

[O.G.B]

@O.G.B is another classic example of someone who doesn't know how to use stats properly.

"Says" the dummy that can't even properly define the differences between Defensive Efficiency (DEF EFF) & Defensive rating (DEF RTG/DRTG).

Exposing himself at every turn.

The only one that's being exposed is you, which is why you're getting throughly clowned throughout this thread.

You obviously didn't watch too many Bulls games last season. As inconsistent as JR is on defense (I've mentioned this at least three times in this thread), he's still better than Wade at this point in their respective careers.

You say that JR is undisciplined; giving away silly fouls while running through screens or fouling shooters - well at least he's trying to defend. Wade doesn't even bother to chase players around screens regularly, Wade doesn't even bother to contest shots regularly, Wade doesn't even bother to close out regularly. Wade doesn't even bother to get back in transition situations regularly, Wade doesn't even bother to help on PnR regularly.

Woman. Fire. Water. Cave. Wade. Cavs. Bad. Defense.

I hate to break it to you, but Wade is no longer that guy. This ain't '94 Joe, we can't go back. Smith is still a 1000x better shooter than Wade, and he's a better defender than Wade.

He's really not. At least JR can stretch the floor and hit shots and play defense sporadically. Wade really can't do any of that.

It's not about that, it's about how effective they'll be together. Their "legendary" chemistry isn't going to make up for their decline/age, Wade especially.

They can have all the chemistry in the world, it ain't gonna turn back time. Wade is already shortlisted for the Larry Holmes Gardens and LeBron is entering his 15th season.

but it really doesn't help them in the areas they're in desperate need of - a player who can shoot AND defend. Wade can't even do one of those things.

 

[O.G.B]

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

"Says" the dummy that can't even properly define the differences between Defensive Efficiency (DEF EFF) & Defensive rating (DEF RTG/DRTG).

And you still can't get it right. Like I said, you have absolutely no idea of what the fukk you're talking about when it comes to stats (nor hoops in general).

The only one that's being exposed is you, which is why you're getting throughly clowned throughout this thread.

JR's starting
Wade is coming off the bench

@Gil Scott-Heroin wins.

 

[MikelArteta]

dwayne wade is averaging 16 point sand shooting 50% over his last 3 games

y'all were writing him off
hes even shooting the 3 better

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

dwayne wade is averaging 16 point sand shooting 50% over his last 3 games

y'all were writing him off
hes even shooting the 3 better

He's coming off the bench, starting off against second units, and not playing starters minutes. The very role I told y'all he should be playing from the start. But y'all wanted to argue otherwise.

 

[MikelArteta]

He's coming off the bench, starting off against second units, and not playing starters minutes. The very role I told y'all he should be playing from the start. But y'all wanted to argue otherwise.

negged