Does Marvin hagler lose points for never leaving middleweight

[Jesus Is Lord]

dapped, but lets look at this a different way for a moment. the consensus will judge fighters based on who they defeated. the weight they did it at is just plus/minus. out of the 4 you named, Hearns greatness is determined by how many titles he won in different classes. Duran is known for being a great LW (gets extra credit for beating SRL at WW), SLR is known for his great wins mostly at WW and gets extra credit for the Hagler win. SRL is always going to be considered better than the other 3 because he beat them all and he did something the other two couldnt do and thats beat Hagler. most casuals arent really cognizant that SRL beat Hagler at MW or on the flip side, couldve assumed all 4 of those guys were weight contemporaries which they were not. I grew up in that time and Hagler was Mount Everest to 147-154 pounders.

Absolutely agree with all you posted bro.

Just one thing I kind of disagree with, one the criteria I use to judge fighters is WHO and HOW they fought, not necessarily if they won or not. For an example I’ll use a recent fight, Porter vs. Truth. Even though Porter lost, he didn’t lose any points in my eyes, he kind of gained points. Why? Because of who he fought and how he fought him. IMO he gave Truth the toughest fight of his career, and IMO barely loss. I understand with the consensus it’s all about wins, but non- casuals like us know that it’s more than that.

Shout out to recognizing Leonard’s place amongst the 4. It’s refreshing to read because I don’t think he gets the respect he REALLY deserves. My GOAT 147.

 

[patscorpio]

No doubt, agreed. And honestly I don’t fully agree with unwritten rule of a fighter has to fight at different weights to define their greatness, but since it seems to be the consensus amongst boxing historians and fans, my hand is forced and I cannot prepare or formulate and argument that’ll sway most. Regardless, like I said, my stance on Hagler doesn’t mean other fighters were better.

you can definitely be great fighting at 1 division thats for sure...terry norris fought at 154 virtually his whole career and is an ATG..and if he didnt expire like he did near the end...he would have banked off fights with either tito or oscar on his resume

 

[Big Boss]

dapped, but lets look at this a different way for a moment. the consensus will judge fighters based on who they defeated. the weight they did it at is just plus/minus. out of the 4 you named, Hearns greatness is determined by how many titles he won in different classes. Duran is known for being a great LW (gets extra credit for beating SRL at WW), SLR is known for his great wins mostly at WW and gets extra credit for the Hagler win. SRL is always going to be considered better than the other 3 because he beat them all and he did something the other two couldnt do and thats beat Hagler. most casuals arent really cognizant that SRL beat Hagler at MW or on the flip side, couldve assumed all 4 of those guys were weight contemporaries which they were not. I grew up in that time and Hagler was Mount Everest to 147-154 pounders.

Duran also defeated Iran Barkley at MW

 

[surv2syn]

Duran also defeated Iran Barkley at MW

true. my point was more or less, SRL for example will be remembered as the great welterweight who took Hagler's MW title. not as a great MW, SMW, or LHW. SRL was only great in one division too. most casuals dont know he won 168-175 title (which was bogus in a way) and most purists dont acknowledge those titles, especially the 168.

 

[Amare's Right Hook]

Duran also defeated Iran Barkley at MW

I forgot what podcast it was but it was a story of Iran showing up to Eddie Murphy's house right after the fight.

 

[Erratic415]

Not really. Hagler was perfectly suited for 160. 168 was barely a division at the time.

It would have gotten real ugly for Hagler if he tried to go up against Spinks. Spinks wasn’t just any LHW champ, he was one of the greatest ever at 175. Qawi was an excellent fighter too.

 

[LauderdaleBoss]

He don't lose points imo.

u gotta show dominance over other great boxers. if you can do that by just being in one division more power to you. weight jumping ain't shyt unless you fighting the biggest available challenges, which doesn't always happen as often as it should.

 

[2 Up 2 Down]

Hagler was a natural middleweight. He was from the same day weigh-in era. Nowadays guys fight well below their natural weight

 

[patscorpio]

He was from the same day weigh-in era.

I feel this should be emphasized more because its facts

 

[Roland Coltrane]

RIP to one of the greats.

 

[DallasTxRep]

RIP Marvelous Marvin Hagler

 

[patscorpio]

this was a great thread...

 

[Neuromancer]

Not one bit.

 

[2 Up 2 Down]

 

[Erratic415]

Although he had bigger wins, I think he was at his absolute peak against Sibson in 83’.

The jab, movement, accuracy, defense, etc....